Quote from: rachl on July 08, 2012, 08:06:34 AM
It's flat-out impossible to take away someone's right to call themselves whatever they want. But the issue is wider: would it be, in general, better for the disadvantaged group if the language used to described them changed? Saying that some might like the old terms, as a way to argue against the broader benefits of change, would be like saying that at least some autistic people may like to be called "retarded," and so we shouldn't change the language.

Except I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone on the autistic spectrum who identifies with that term, so it isn't a particularly good analogy. Also I'm not sure whether all people on the autism spectrum were called retarded by others to start with, some were regarded as geniuses.

I didn't suggest that "some may like the old terms" either, because transsexual is still a current term, and nothing useful has replaced it yet in wider currency (except the wider term transgender). It's more the perception that the word has a negative connotation that is the problem isn't it? Or is it because it is inaccurate for some people's experiences or not inclusive of people on the boundaries?

I suppose the better question to ask about connotation would be: Do others' attitudes really change just because of the language used, or could acceptance by western societies of transsexualism and gender variance destroy the negative connotations of the word transsexual without needing to replace it with something else? Actually you asked that question in yourself...

I think the persistence of social stigma can give even the nicest name ("gay" for example) a negative connotation. I'm sure queer and dyke still have a negative connotation amongst homophobes, though, even though they have been reclaimed by their respective communities. Will the attitude be fixed by the language, or the language fixed by the attitude?

Wouldn't reclaiming the word for ourselves be just as good for us as inventing something new?

I've just asked more questions than given answers..... I can't really answer them.... but at least I've been thinking about it a bit.

(modified for spelling!)

Kadri thanks for thinking about. That is the whole idea of this post. Being okay with the accepted terms is fine,  the idea here is to see if there are better terms that help all of us with better understanding. We can get used to terms because that is comfortable, but we should not be afraid of change to ensure better understanding by all. No one should be left out. My personal observation of the current terminology in this area has caused confusion for myself as well as others.

Quote from: M777a on July 08, 2012, 07:27:19 PM
Love the science Peky. Are the references easily found on the internet? Also are there books that can be found in english of the studies you mentioned? I would love to learn more and thanks for the science lesson. It was great.

Almost all peer-reveiewed studies can be found online but you need to subscribe to the specific journal or pay a fee ( a rather hefty one)  to access anything more than the abstract. Or you might find some of these studies at a University data base such as EBSCO host. I have access to one of the greatest databases in the world, maybe we can work out a deal. 

Quote from: Sephirah on May 24, 2012, 04:36:12 AM

Interestingly, some organisations and authorities don't see Gender Dysphoria as a mental illness, or recognise it as such. For example, the NHS in the UK. Here's how they see it:

From: [url=http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_097168.pdf]http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_097168.pdf[/url]

So since more and more places are starting to use the term GD (Gender Dysphoria) instead, is there really any need to call it something else?

I think you are a little miss- guided as the NHS only considers Gender Dysphoria as a mental illness:
http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Gender-Dysphoria-Services-An-English-Protocol.pdf

http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/gic-updates/dh-consultation-on-gender-dysphoria-guidance/

All GIC NHS GD protocols in the U.K are strictly held under the mental health guidelines only and Gender Dysphoria only goes under the 'mental health' banner. Other countries don't see it that way and I think the U.K system sucks partly for that reason.

Canada definitely does, too.

The NHS doesn't consider GD to be a mental illness - the reason why someone presenting to their GP with apparent GD is initially assessed by a psychiatrist over here (and therefore under the auspices of the mental health service, as that's where the psychiatrists are based) is to determine whether they have GD (rather than mental health issues that can initially present as like GD), and whether they also have any mental health issues (which if they do, need addressing separately from the GD). So the client is initially funnelled briefly through the mental health system for that purpose, but then they're referred to a gender clinic which does the GD assessment proper, and which is emphatically separate from the mental health services.

Quote from: Padma on August 01, 2012, 10:55:08 AM
The NHS doesn't consider GD to be a mental illness - the reason why someone presenting to their GP with apparent GD is initially assessed by a psychiatrist over here (and therefore under the auspices of the mental health service, as that's where the psychiatrists are based) is to determine whether they have GD (rather than mental health issues that can initially present as like GD), and whether they also have any mental health issues (which if they do, need addressing separately from the GD). So the client is initially funnelled briefly through the mental health system for that purpose, but then they're referred to a gender clinic which does the GD assessment proper, and which is emphatically separate from the mental health services.

I don't know how my six years at a NHS GIC can be called 'funnelled briefly through the mental health system'? I also disagree with most of your points regarding 'the gender clinic does the assesment proper' as GIC's refer some people for SRS surgery who regret it afterwards and they revert back to their original gender and they block others who end up having to go private like I did. So the psychiatrists don't seem to know what they are doing or who they should and shouldn't refer for surgery.

I'm not going to get into specifics, not knowing the details of your experience - but studies show regret rates post-GRS are very low, around 1%, and that for a mixture of reasons.

Quote from: Padma on August 02, 2012, 08:05:15 AM
I'm not going to get into specifics, not knowing the details of your experience - but studies show regret rates post-GRS are very low, around 1%, and that for a mixture of reasons.

I know two cases who went to the London NHS GIC who reverted back to their original gender.  Both had different reasons. I knew one because she attended the GIC the same time as I did  and the other I knew through one of the forums.

My experience was quite bad and I didn't get an NHS surgery referral even though I was already six years into my RLT.  That was back in 2007. They agreed I complied with the HBSOC and the RLT but still wouldn't provide a referral or a reason as to why not? It was very frustrating for me at the time. 

That does sound very frustrating - especially the part where they didn't explain why.

I understand that my description of the NHS process doesn't fit your particular experience - but it does seem that your experience was way worse than most people's experience is of transitioning under the NHS, especially recently.

Ladies and Gentlemen, though I can appreciate the posts in this section, we are getting away from the purpose of the discussion here. We are focusing on the current terms to describe our condition and I am asking is there a better term that is less confusing than transexual or transgender. Though these terms are accepted by the individuals affected the terms do have a negative connotation to the general public. The prefix tran or trans meaning to cross and sexual seen as the act of sex not the sex of a individual. The current terms, as been my experience, is the public interprets it just that way. I am sure others have had different experiences but the miss interpretation is still present. We are women who were born with a male reproduction system, under the heading of this section, and clarity of terms would make understanding by all easier. You are all a great bunch of people and with your insights, from what I have seen here, can help with clear terminology that will help those who need it. Keep reading all the posts here and put your thoughts down here to weigh in on the subject. Keep in mind that we all stay on task here and focus on the terminology.

I have reviewed this topic for the last few months and since my last post no further discussion has taken place. It is a bit of a shame that terminology has stagnated. The intention of the topic was to find better words to describe a unique condition. This was to help ourselves as well as the public to better understand what is going on with us. The terminology defines the condition not the individual. I felt that with insightful discussion there was hope of refining the terms that best describe this particular condition, not just as a psychological issue but a medical one as well. Since it takes both specialities to properly correct it. I would like to take this next sentence to thank Susan for letting me post and Rachl for making me think, also Peky for her wonderful knowledge. A special thanks for those others who took the time to respond. I'll check back in a month to see if there is any interest to continue the topic, if not then I'll ask to have it locked. Again thanks for taking the time to read this post.

You need to participate, not watch, if you don't want your topic to stagnate. After all, we aren't your employees! Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: M777a on May 22, 2012, 09:01:49 PM
Hello everyone. I am doing an inquiry into the terminology currently being used to describe the situation we are in.  The current words used are transsexual, transgender, Gender Identity Disorder (GID), and Gender Identity Dysphoria (also known as GID).  The terms transsexual and transgender are used interchangebly  but their definitions are not. According to my therapist gender refers to the brain and sex to ones anatomy. The prefix trans means to cross. My view is that I am not crossing to anything but correcting what was not done by biological events. GID  is a term found in the DSM to describe a mental condition. Guys we are not mental. The term I would like to see used is Gender Sex Misalignment or GSM for short. The reason for this is to get us out of the DSM and into the medical books so that insurance would cover what needs to be done. I would like your input on this. Thank you for your help. M777a

I quite like the term 'Gender Sex Misalignment': I can see its logic ... but doesn't that still imply a disorder?

And frankly, isn't that because we do actually have a disorder?

The only reason the word 'disorder' seems offensive, in the context of the DSM is because of the negative stereotyping suffered by ALL psychiatric ailments.

For what it's worth, I'm personally convinced that the disconnect between our mental gender and the bodies we were born with is a matter of brain chemistry and structure, caused by pre-natal issues. I've always felt that my feelings were so deep, so instinctive and so overpowering that there was no way they could have been caused by bad parenting, or some kind of personal neurosis (though my 'misalignment' has certainly given me huge mental distress, trying to cope with it/deny it/suppress it/get over it/live with it, etc) ...

... But it's still a disorder. I mean, what we have is a dis-ordering of our physical and mental selves .. and it's also a disorder in the sense that it's an ailment that causes great anguish and requires treatment. Of course we all support one another as much as we can, but let's be honest, how many of us would choose to be born this way? And how many would wish the same disorder on our children? Most of all, I would love to have been given a female body so that I could have lived the life my deepest self was made for. Failing that, I wish I could just be a regular guy who never gives a second's thought to worrying that he's not actually male. I can cope with being transgendered, but it comes way down my preferred list of options.

My point is, you can call a blind person visually-challenged, but it doesn't help them see any better. You can say 'small person' is a more PC term than 'dwarf' (though a lot of dwarves actually prefer being called dwarves): either way they don't get any taller.

So, while I'm confused about the difference between transsexual and transgender, and whether I should even use either term ... and while I'm just about getting my head around the whole 'cis' thing and 'assigned at birth', the truth is I don't care what anyone calls me, so long as they treat me with dignity and respect.

With one exception ...

I can call my self a ->-bleeped-<- - and, trust me, it's not self-hating. My fellow trannies can call me a ->-bleeped-<-. My very closest, most intimate, most lovng and trusted friends can call me a ->-bleeped-<-. Anyone else calls me a ->-bleeped-<-, I reserve the right to bust their jaw.

Not very ladylike, I know. But sometimes a girl's gotta do ...

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 17, 2012, 07:02:40 AM
You need to participate, not watch, if you don't want your topic to stagnate. After all, we aren't your employees! Hugs, Devlyn

Well, I find this post not particularly helpful. First off I do participate, this is not a blog but a discussion. Also I had some personal stuff come up that made this a little less a priority. Secondly, no posts had been made for approximately 2 months, if you noticed before yours that the last posts were mine. Finally and most importantly I truly value anyone who has taken the time to post their thoughts on the subject here. They are not my employees and your implication, however meant, is a bit offensive and distracting from the discussion. Enough said, hope that this matter is closed and we can get back to the discussion of terminology.

My post was not meant to be offensive, I apologize. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: M777a on October 19, 2012, 06:16:06 AM

Well, I find this post not particularly helpful. First off I do participate, this is not a blog but a discussion. Also I had some personal stuff come up that made this a little less a priority. Secondly, no posts had been made for approximately 2 months, if you noticed before yours that the last posts were mine. Finally and most importantly I truly value anyone who has taken the time to post their thoughts on the subject here. They are not my employees and your implication, however meant, is a bit offensive and distracting from the discussion. Enough said, hope that this matter is closed and we can get back to the discussion of terminology.

That being the case, I'd love to know what you made of my point that gender misalignment, dysphoria, call it what you will actually IS a form of disorder ... and I say that as someone who has it.

As I come out to more people, especially conservative people, I am starting to not mind it being a "disorder". It helps those who are completely ignorant on the subject grasp the fact that it is not a choice. It is just part of who I am.

Quote from: Brooke777 on October 19, 2012, 09:51:28 AM
As I come out to more people, especially conservative people, I am starting to not mind it being a "disorder". It helps those who are completely ignorant on the subject grasp the fact that it is not a choice. It is just part of who I am.

Good point!

I have made my own terminology which I will use almost every time except for very specific situations.

XY Female and XX Male.  Rather than Cis, XX Female and XY Male