Quote from: DianaP on October 28, 2012, 06:19:59 AM
Um, that whole supermajority in both houses thing never actually happened. Also, I know that neither candidate won't do anything for TG rights because, admittedly, we are not far enough yet for pro-TG legislation to be passed easily, so if anything, attempting to pass that legislation would only slow down government. It's an unfortunate reality.

Also, I looked into it, and if you fact-check either candidate, you will find that they both lied, but Obama lied a lot less. So Laura was right in that these elections are just picking the lesser of two evils, but I don't think that should stop someone from voting because while it may not be perfect, it's better to make sure that the lesser of two evils gets in office.

Diana, in the US House of Representatives, you only need a simple majority to move legislation.  The Democrats controlled the House by a large margin of 257 to 178.  No "supermajority" needed.  And no legislation on ENDA or DOMA was moved.  By choice.

In the Senate, the "cloture" rule requires a 60% vote (or 60 out of 100 senators, when all seats are filled) to end debate.  Unending debate is called a "filibuster".  On the issue of ENDA, that supermajority existed.  Susan Collins (R - Maine) was a co-sponsor of the unenacted Senate bill.  It died, because the Democrats allowed it to die in the 111th Congress.

Quote from: Jamie D on October 28, 2012, 12:17:37 PM

As you realize, there is a limit on the amount of copyrighted material that we can cut and paste here.

Links to the list of pro-LBGT actions the republicans as a group have initiated will be just fine. Please post them ASAP. And yes, I'm sure you would like a mod to remove what I posted.

BTW here is how the house vote in 2007 went as far as republican support for EDNA the first time around.

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll1057.xml

Dems voted 200 for, 25  against
Rep   voted  35 for, 159 against

And while you seem to totally discount the "don't ask don't tell" in the military being repealed, it was a huge move forward in LGBT rights under Obama. And while we might not see this being a priority over EDNA, they clearly did.

Here is the senate vote

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/senate/2/281

Dems voted 55 for 0 against
Rep    voted 8 for 31 against

House vote:

http://politics.nytimes.com/congress/votes/111/house/2/638

Dems voted 235 for 15 against
Rep    voted 15 for 160 against

I'm not sure about how you see this, but  to me one group seems to be voting for our rights and the other not so much. They did have to pull TG rights out of that first EDNA version to get the 35 R votes they needed to pass this. Unfortunately the senate just ignored it.. As far as EDNA not being passed being "a total failure" by the Dems, why hasn't it been moved forward and passed that the R party is in power? And it seems by these comments some feel if we vote more republicans into power, LBGT rights will then be able to move forward? O.o

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the list of LBGT accomplishments the republicans have done for us! And what further progress I can expect if Romney wins.



BTW your post had plenty of "cut and pasted" material.

Quote from: Jamie D on October 28, 2012, 02:08:18 PM
Diana, in the US House of Representatives, you only need a simple majority to move legislation.  The Democrats controlled the House by a large margin of 257 to 178.  No "supermajority" needed.  And no legislation on ENDA or DOMA was moved.  By choice.

They did get the DADT repealed and were working on that during this time period. Now if the republicans you are asking us to vote for were no road block to this, why would it matter who controlled anything?

Quote from: Stephe on October 28, 2012, 02:44:47 PM
They did get the DADT repealed and were working on that during this time period. Now if the republicans you are asking us to vote for were no road block to this, why would it matter who controlled anything?

you go girl!

I'm too lazy to collect facts and figures, good thing you aren't :3

Quote from: Stephe on October 28, 2012, 02:44:47 PM
They did get the DADT repealed and were working on that during this time period. Now if the republicans you are asking us to vote for were no road block to this, why would it matter who controlled anything?

Stephe, show me one place where I asked anyone to vote for a Republican or Romney.

Pointing out the obvious pandering by the Democrats on GLBTQ issues, and their manifest failures of the past four years, is not the same as making an endorsement.

Regarding "cut and paste" material.  My posts all fall within the "Fair Use" doctrine of the Copyright laws.  They are cited from the original source and fall within the amount that can quoted without obtaining the publisher's permission.

As it is, I did not edit any posts.

However, the issue is not what may have happened in votes in prior Congresses.  The issue is what happened, or rather, failed to happen when a political party which claims to represent the interests of the GLBTQ community had the votes to pass important legislation, and made a decision not to.

I think the reason for that failure is obvious.  Re-election was more important than principle.

Ok, ladies and gents, let's cool our jets here. I'm sure that whether you're Democrat or Republican, you can agree that politics suck. 

Also, I once again refer everyone here to fact-checking. Try Politifact. It's a good site for unbiased answers.

Well, just to help us feel a bit better I ran across this today

Quote from: Michelle G on November 02, 2012, 04:42:11 PM
Well, just to help us feel a bit better I ran across this today

Here's the link for the article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/30/joe-biden-transgender-rights_n_2047275.html
It's on the Huff Post site so I imagine it's true. First time I've heard a major politician from either party mention us.

Politician talk is cheap.  Where is the legislation?

Don't ask don't tell was repealed is one thing they did recently, voted strongly opposed by the republicans. Now that the republicans are the majority, no further legislation can be moved forward.

PLEASE Jamie or anyone of you who support the R party show any LBGT issue that the right wing, as a majority, voted to support. Not that one or two R's co signed a bill, but a strong majority of them voted for it. Just one single issue will suffice. I've posted multiple legislation votes over the past 10 years and in every instance, the vast majority of republicans vote against it. EDNA failed only because of the republican opposition is a good example. You blame that on Obama? It was your party that blocked it! Both times!

And if you really have to ask why more progressive legislation isn't being presented, you have some heavy duty blinders on. It's ONLY because of the strong opposition the republican party puts up. I guess when Romney says he supports DOMA and will veto any same sex marriage bill that comes across his desk, it is really him saying he supports LBGT rights? O.o

I can understand if you like the R party stance on economic issues to the point of ignoring how they treat minorities and repress social progress, but please don't try to even pretend they are working for LBGT rights. Or that they aren't working overtime to stop any progress. Given this forum is supposed to limit political discussions to how it affects trans people, again, please post links to what the republican party has ever done for LBGT rights.

please post links to what the republican party has ever done for LBGT rights.

They seem to enjoy gay sex and rent-boys on the down low.

This thread will be locked before proof is ever provided.

I am so glad I voted. Go obama. He may not be perfect but compared to the other side. *shudder* It's mind boggling how Mittens can even be a option for some of us. Downplaying him aside, I find it funny how people always rag on Obama/Biden about not supporting us. Serious moment here, sis level... What has Romney/Ryan ever done for the GLBT community besides pander to the hateful and change his stances? I await with bated breath. We might not see certain GLBT things passed with Obama/Biden...But at least we will have a chance with him at those being passed.

Quote from: Stephe on November 02, 2012, 10:50:38 PM
... EDNA failed only because of the republican opposition is a good example. You blame that on Obama? It was your party that blocked it! Both times!

Simply not the case.  The Democrats has absolute control of the legislative agenda in the 111th Congress, and they chose not to even move ENDA out of committee.  Obama failed to lead on the subject.

That shows how serious they are to further equal rights.

Quote from: Snowpaw on November 03, 2012, 02:30:43 AM
This thread will be locked before proof is ever provided.

... What has Romney/Ryan ever done for the GLBT community besides pander to the hateful and change his stances? I await with bated breath.

Trivia question.  Of Ryan, Obama, and Biden, who most recently voted in favor of ENDA legislation?

You guessed it ... Ryan.

Quote from: Jamie D on November 03, 2012, 04:38:26 AM
Trivia question.  Of Ryan, Obama, and Biden, who most recently voted in favor of ENDA legislation?

You guessed it ... Ryan.

In the past. Which he quickly changed his tune on likely after the rest of the republican party jumped on his case. Oh fun fact who is currently speaking about our rights now? In the face of a upcoming election? In spite of the fact it may lose them votes? Hint hint, there is a thread about it Awwwww, sorry but while both sides suck I stand by my belief that we will lose with romney. Hard. With Obama, we at least have a chance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/paul-ryan-gay-rights_b_1768962.html At least here is a link.

Quote from: Jamie D on November 03, 2012, 04:34:47 AM
Simply not the case.  The Democrats has absolute control of the legislative agenda in the 111th Congress, and they chose not to even move ENDA out of committee.  Obama failed to lead on the subject.

That shows how serious they are to further equal rights.

No link.... Strange but eh saw it coming. Erm not coming.

Trivia Trick question.  Of Ryan, Obama, and Biden, who most recently voted in favor of ENDA legislation?

Nice try, but that question it deliberately misleading to the point of being an outright lie - A Big Lie - and you know it.   Obama ain't votin on nuttin for the last 4 years because he's been POTUS, I'm sure you remember that since it pisses you off to no end.  Ditto Biden who only votes in order to break a tie.

Better question:  Who's the best pitcher in baseball never to have won a Cy Young Award?

a - Cy Young.

Quote from: tekla on November 03, 2012, 05:33:33 AM
Trivia Trick question.  Of Ryan, Obama, and Biden, who most recently voted in favor of ENDA legislation?

Nice try, but that question it deliberately misleading to the point of being an outright lie - A Big Lie - and you know it.   Obama ain't votin on nuttin for the last 4 years because he's been POTUS, I'm sure you remember that since it pisses you off to no end.  Ditto Biden who only votes in order to break a tie.

Better question:  Who's the best pitcher in baseball never to have won a Cy Young Award?

a - Cy Young.

Both Biden and Obama served in the 110th Congress (2007-2009) in the Senate.  Neither raised the issue of ENDA, nor voted in favor of it.  Paul Ryan, on the other hand, did vote in favor of ENDA.

In 2007, [Ryan] supported the Employee Non-Discrimination Act, banning workplace discrimination against gays and lesbians and said he has gay friends. "They didn't roll out of bed one morning and choose to be gay. That's who they are," he said, acknowledging he "took a lot of grief" for the ENDA vote from members of his own party, so much so that he "stopped worrying about it." He says his attitude towards gays is a "generational thing" — less important to him than to older people, perhaps, and he is willing to go along with whatever the generals propose regarding gays in the military.
- The Fiscal Times

Both sides suck I've made that abundantly clear as my view. So here is the simplest way I can put it... Which side panders to us, which side panders to the people who hate us. If I wanted to piss my vote away I would vote for someone else entirely, however I want 4 years of a "yeah maybe we will look into helping you out" vs a "hah screw you abominations, in fact let's take away any chance you have of getting married or having job protections." I mean if you really want to gamble and think that Romney/ryan would change their stances after being elected, it's your vote. If you want to sit at home dressed like a clown instead of voting, your choice. Just don't whine when the obvious happens and our rights are put on hold for 4 years.

Oh well. Such is life. I would rather not stick that gun to my foot.

Quote from: Jamie D on November 03, 2012, 05:55:18 AM
Both Biden and Obama served in the 110th Congress (2007-2009) in the Senate.  Neither raised the issue of ENDA, nor voted in favor of it.  Paul Ryan, on the other hand, did vote in favor of ENDA.

In 2007, [Ryan] supported the Employee Non-Discrimination Act, banning workplace discrimination against gays and lesbians and said he has gay friends. "They didn't roll out of bed one morning and choose to be gay. That's who they are," he said, acknowledging he "took a lot of grief" for the ENDA vote from members of his own party, so much so that he "stopped worrying about it." He says his attitude towards gays is a "generational thing" — less important to him than to older people, perhaps, and he is willing to go along with whatever the generals propose regarding gays in the military.
- The Fiscal Times

Annnnnd he quickly changed his mind on it, didn't he? Yeah we always forget to mention their current political status don't we. I find it odd for someone who is such a crusader for gay rights is running with someone who is so oh shall we say fervently against it.

Quote from: Snowpaw on November 03, 2012, 05:07:39 AM
In the past. Which he quickly changed his tune on likely after the rest of the republican party jumped on his case. Oh fun fact who is currently speaking about our rights now? In the face of a upcoming election? In spite of the fact it may lose them votes? Hint hint, there is a thread about it Awwwww, sorry but while both sides suck I stand by my belief that we will lose with romney. Hard. With Obama, we at least have a chance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/paul-ryan-gay-rights_b_1768962.html At least here is a link.

No link.... Strange but eh saw it coming. Erm not coming.

The membership of each House of Congress in the 111th Congress is a matter of public record.