I was just mulling over some thoughts last. All too often I see a post about how a person can't live without this or that surgery, ,or would just go insane if they could not have hormones or remove body hair (or grow hair for ftm). I think it is important to step outside of yourself for a moment and stop worrying so much about what you cannot do or are unable to do.


Consider that 100 years ago folks who felt different were usually in hiding from the rest of America (and the word really). There was no word called transgender or transsexual then. You would probably be labeled gay or lesbian or bisexual or they would not know what to think about you.

Our ancestors could never do the following:

Take HRT Like we do (the whole gauntlet of medicine)
Laser and Electrolysis like we do
Breast Augmentation like we do
Facial Feminization Surgery Like we do
SRS/GRS Surgery like we do
Feminization Voice Surgery like we do


No in fact all they were limited to was:

Growing Long hair
Wearing Makeup and Perfume
Wearing Womens Clothes
Walking and Talking Feminine
Shaving face and body hair with a crude razor


So you see? Our ancestors managed to live with what they had and even though they deep down wanted something more, It just wasn't there and yet they managed to live and I am sure many had productive lives. So when you find yourself complaining about every little detail and you think it makes you look ugly or you see your old face in the mirror still and feel like you have no hope, just remember those that came before you had it much harder and yet carried on.

Realistically, you could not any of that sixty years ago. Sixty years ago, you would have been a ->-bleeped-<- or a drag queen...

Yeah That sounds about right, I just wanted to say 100 years ago for The United States case, we were just barely having an industrial revolution in 1912. How long has the term ->-bleeped-<- or drag queen been used?

Funny that you posted this as I started a bit of research for my book on the history of ->-bleeped-<-. It appears that ->-bleeped-<- began appearing around the mid-20th century. Before that, it was "female impersonator" which I found as early as 1858 in the New York Times.

"Drag queen" first appeared in the New York Times in 1967.

Hmm interesting, well I hope your book meets with success, when was the 1st hair removal process done? When did electrolysis get invented and laser hair removal? I am sure you probably already an idea for a chapter about the medical/body image history of transfolk.

Times change, we have all that and more these days. So it's a little harder to cope with in a time when things can be corrected but are just out of reach. In my case at least. Maybe it will get better? Dunno. All I know is some days I like what I see in the mirror, other times I just want to shatter the mirror.

Quote from: Bella on November 18, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
Electrolysis has been around for over a 100 years.

100 years ago, finding an electrologist that would work on a female impersonator would have been problematic.

I can think of other things our ancestors could have done with a crude razor. Like slit their throats. Our suicide rates are horrifying now. I can't imagine what they would have been like then. I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that they "managed to live." I'm sure lots of them didn't.

Quote from: Sarah7 on November 18, 2012, 02:40:24 PM
I can think of other things our ancestors could have done with a crude razor. Like slit their throats. Our suicide rates are horrifying now. I can't imagine what they would have been like then. I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that they "managed to live." I'm sure lots of them didn't.

They could join the circus. I found a story about an 1850s equestrian "female impersonator" circus performer who was quite famous.

Quote from: Sarah7 on November 18, 2012, 02:40:24 PM
I can think of other things our ancestors could have done with a crude razor. Like slit their throats. Our suicide rates are horrifying now. I can't imagine what they would have been like then. I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that they "managed to live." I'm sure lots of them didn't.

And what about persecution, insane asylums, and just flat out murders.  I'm sorry for anyone who went through those times. 

I'll never be pretty, and may not pass very well when I get to that point.  But at least I won't be locked away or killed (I hope) for it. 

K

Castration? Become a unich?

we were just barely having an industrial revolution in 1912

Our 'Industrial Revolution' (which began in 1776, just like it did in England, BTW) was pretty over by then. 

And such things were often based on class and social status.  One thing that is almost impossible to realize in our day is how truly and deeply 'private' private life was, both in terms of what others knew, as well as in terms of what you shared with others.  But I'm sure any number of Victorian groups like the Hellfire Club existed in the larger cities in the US, as they did in London going back to the 1880s.  Certainly there were numerous cases of women passing themselves off as men.

Hmm I meant to say that technology was starting to advance faster here in America in the early 1900's than it had in previous centuries.
I guess i was really referring to this:

QuoteThe Second Industrial Revolution, also known as the Technological Revolution, was a phase of the larger Industrial Revolution corresponding to the latter half of the 19th century until World War I. It is considered to have begun with Bessemer steel in the 1860s and culminated in mass production and the production line.

The novel, A Florida Enchantment, upon which this film is based, was written in 1882.

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on November 18, 2012, 01:27:46 PM
Funny that you posted this as I started a bit of research for my book on the history of ->-bleeped-<-. It appears that ->-bleeped-<- began appearing around the mid-20th century. Before that, it was "female impersonator" which I found as early as 1858 in the New York Times.

"Drag queen" first appeared in the New York Times in 1967.

what would be the novel angle? There are so many books on the topic

Quote from: peky on November 18, 2012, 04:53:51 PM
what would be the novel angle? There are so many books on the topic

I don't write novels although I would like to. This would be a historiographical account and what I have in mind would be unlike anything ever written. Not to denigrate anyone but if the people at the trans forum can get anything published, I sure can.

And without looking it up, how many MtF transsexual historians can you name?

I just did a search of the entire UC library system and I did not see any historical accounts of ->-bleeped-<-. I would concentrate on 1800s to present, my area of expertise. It would historical with a lot of feminist theory. I really want to rip that Raymond person.

Think 300 years ago:
Edward Hyde, 3rd Earl of Clarendon (28 November 1661 – 31 March 1723), styled Viscount Cornbury between 1674 and 1709, was Governor of New York and New Jersey between 1701 and 1708, and is perhaps best known for the claims of his cross-dressing while in office.

Since I was born and raised in NJ, I maintain that there is something in the water 

Quote from: Sarah7 on November 18, 2012, 02:40:24 PM
I can think of other things our ancestors could have done with a crude razor. Like slit their throats. Our suicide rates are horrifying now. I can't imagine what they would have been like then. I think it's a little presumptuous to assume that they "managed to live." I'm sure lots of them didn't.

Back in the day, you might not have even had to go that far - plagues or any number of wars would do the job for you, and I guess throwing yourself into battle/tending the sick if you don't think you're worth saving is not big stretch.

The Flu epidemic in the early 2oth century killed a 100 million. Then look at all the wars and the genocide six million Jews..countless Armenians...well...speaking of genocide, in 1994, 800,000 Rwandans were killed or 20% of the population. Hutus killed their own countrymen, Tutsi and Tutsi sympathizers. Then there was Bosnia...Srebrenica...Kosovo....oh the humanity...

And without looking it up, how many MtF transsexual historians can you name?



One, Susan Stryker, who has had both written several books as wellas put a film out, and basically started the LGBT history project in SF serving as executive director of the GLBT Historical Society for a number of years.

How many are needed?