It is always good to know the word of God. Sadly however to know it from the wrong source will only damn a person. The following scripture shows where wisdom should come from.

Ecclesiastes 9:14-18
[14] There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great bulwarks against it:
[15] Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same poor man.
[16] Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not heard.
[17] The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
[18] Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

Jesus said he was poor and lowly of heart. David described himself in Psalms as poor. The word says though Jesus was rich he became poor that we might be rich. (in wisdom and knowledge)

This poor man's wisdom delivered this city (Christians) from sickness, devils and death both spiritually and in the natural. That wisdom points to faith balanced with works and grace balanced with obedience. It points to receiving the Holy Ghost by the second baptism.

Peter walked with the Lord yet the Lord told him when he was converted he should strengthen his brethren. Peter was converted when he received the baptism of the Holy Ghost in Acts. He received the wisdom to preach Christ from the laws and prophets and the strength to go from denying Christ to being constantly imprisoned and such.

The Lord made it clear he would send back the Holy Ghost, or Spirit of truth. This Spirit is listed as teaching and guiding all the prophets of both testaments. It not only glorified Jesus speaking of his prophesies, greatness and glory but also rebuked the children of Israel to turn them to God. (Nehemiah 9:26)

When men changed their source of wisdom and knowledge from the free gift of the Holy Ghost given to all whom David said would obey the Lord to seminary and Christian Colleges the wisdom went from God given wisdom to man purchased foolishness.

If one is diligent and loves the Lord more than all (John 21:15) and obeys the Lord seeking only his glory and having his word as the supreme and final authority they will not only receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, evidence of speaking in tongues, but also a God given wisdom that will give them an understanding void of confusion and life everlasting. As written ye have been chosen unto salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth. Two points no longer taught as ye cannot be sanctified nor believe the truth without the Holy Ghost.

Seminary may prepare one for ministry but cannot prepare one to lead the LORD'S FLOCK across Jordan. It is based on greed.
Stop paying and schooling ends.
That is not scriptural nor Godly of any sort.
The Lord will not honour that.

Let us all seek the Lord with all our heart and all our soul and all our strength and all our mind.
May God bless.

Hosea 12:10
[10] I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets

The prophets were anointed of God. Not man. When man wanted a king he gave them Saul. He will give people teachers of doctrines and beliefs that will not save them if that is what they really want.

Seminary can not bring forth the visions of God such as Daniel and Joseph and others had. It can not manifest the similitudes such as the Lord saying the temple is his body when the concordance says it is a place of worship. A building.

It is written that the widom of God is foolishness with man. Man relies on carnal or natural wisdom using his brain rather than the Spirit in matters of God where it is the Spirit that brings forth that which pleases God.

Yet the Lord takes the wise in their own craftiness. Those wise in this world who use the word amiss will only lead people to hell. As written, one sinner destroyeth much good. How many man-taught ministers have led multitudes astray and one day may have their blood on their hands.

We all need to watch whom we listen to. It must be brought forth by the Spirit of God and not the spirit or heart or lust of man.

May God bless.

It should make us wonder,why didn't Jesus call any of the Sadducee's,Scribes,or Pharisees. Not one of the inner twelve were religious leaders,or were men that any one would think very highly of. At least six were men that in our days they would be long shore men. All eleven had certain things in common,not one was any near as well versed as the religious leaders in the law and the prophets,but all of them learned under,walked and talked with Jesus. They learned directly from the Master for three years. Before Jesus ascended into heaven He told them to WAIT for the Holy Spirit to give them the power to become His witnesses. It's a principle that we would do well to learn.

I will have to disagree with some of what you've said.  I'll begin by saying that in the spirit of this forum, you're free to believe what you want to.

That being said, this focus on the gifts of prophecy and tongues is slightly misplaced.  In I Cor. 13:8-10, we're told that prophecies, tongues, and knowledge (speaking specifically of the gift of extra-Biblical revelation mentioned in the previous chapter) shall fail, cease, and vanish away once that which is "perfect" - or complete - is come.  Why were prophecies, tongues, and words of knowledge needed?  Because the Word of God was not yet completed.  Because the apostolic ministry was not yet come to an end.  Once the local church was fully matured, those *sign* gifts were no longer needed.  We have the complete Word of God - we do not need any other addition to the Bible.  Note the warning in Revelation 22 for those adding to the Bible.

How do we know that tongues were a sign gift?  Because of how they were used in the book of Acts.  Every time speaking in tongues occured, it was in the presence of Jews; each time it was given, the Jews were shown something specific.  In the temple during Pentecost, the Jews were shown that Jesus' disciples were speaking the truth, thus showing that Jesus' doctrine was truth.  With Cornelius, God was showing the Jews that the Gentiles were now accepted into the "fold" of Christianity (notice that the speaking in tongues here occured BEFORE water baptism).  In Ephesus, God showed the Jews that John the Baptist's baptism wasn't enough, but that faith in Jesus Christ Himself was required, signifying the end of the period of the prophets.

As for supposed modern-day prophets being anointed by God, who was it that ordained elders in the churches?  It was representatives from other local churches.  Who ordained Saul and Barnabas to the ministry?  The local church at Antioch.  Did God call them?  Yes, but God made a specific point of using the local church to ordain them.  God established the pattern of local churches planting other local churches.  Incidentally, this means I agree with you on your perspective of seminaries and colleges; while I do not discount their value, the NT pattern is that churches beget churches, and pastors train pastors.  Extra learning and study is not evil if it is done by faith, however, per Romans 14:23.

As for the focus on the poor, it is never stated in the Bible that being poor makes one spiritual.  I've met many poor people who exhibit a love for money greater than the greed of Wall Street.  It is the love of money that is the root of all evil, not money itself. 

As for the salvation of Peter, it did not occur at Pentecost, for according to John 20:21, Peter received the Holy Ghost when Jesus appeared to the disciples.  If you're saying that one can be filled with the Holy Spirit before salvation, then I guess we differ greater in our theology than what I had guessed.  According to this same verse, the disciples didn't receive the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they simply had to wait for the fulfillment of Jesus' promise.

As for God not using educated people, it amazes me how well-educated the Apostle Paul was.  How mightily did God take a much-learned man and use that training in apologetics and logic to produce some of the most difficult books of the Bible to understand! 

Quote from: Incarnadine on November 19, 2012, 09:06:15 PM

As for the focus on the poor, it is never stated in the Bible that being poor makes one spiritual.  I've met many poor people who exhibit a love for money greater than the greed of Wall Street.  It is the love of money that is the root of all evil, not money itself. 

Jesus uses the term poor in two different senses. In the sermon on the mount He said Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Depending on when David wrote that he was poor may not mean that he was poor in earthly wealth. In both it is not in terms of being poor in a monetary sense.

Quote from: Incarnadine on November 19, 2012, 09:06:15 PM

As for the salvation of Peter, it did not occur at Pentecost, for according to John 20:21, Peter received the Holy Ghost when Jesus appeared to the disciples.  If you're saying that one can be filled with the Holy Spirit before salvation, then I guess we differ greater in our theology than what I had guessed.  According to this same verse, the disciples didn't receive the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, they simply had to wait for the fulfillment of Jesus' promise.

Pentecost was not about their salvation. Even in the old testament it was by faith that salvation is from the Lord. It was about them being empowered to preach the Gospel. Remember less than two months before they all ran away. But after the Holy Spirit came upon them they were able to preach in a bold and powerful way,so much so that on the first day about 3,000 were saved. And they continued on even to the point of death.

Quote from: Incarnadine on November 19, 2012, 09:06:15 PM

As for God not using educated people, it amazes me how well-educated the Apostle Paul was.  How mightily did God take a much-learned man and use that training in apologetics and logic to produce some of the most difficult books of the Bible to understand! 

It has to do with the fact that Jesus did not call the religious leaders to be in His inner most circle.
Outside of Paul's letters most of the Bible was not written by the priestly cast. To say that God did not use intelligent or better educated people is not correct. Moses was trained in the courts of Pharaoh as a son,Joseph was intelligent enough to be second in command,Daniel was high up in the courts of both Babylon and the Medes and Persians,Nehemiah certainly had a good grasp on things as he led the rebuilding of the walls and did so in a very short order,Matthew certainly was better educated as he was a tax collector and you better be able to keep very good records as Rome would have expected it. Luke was a physician,and most certainly not an uneducated person.

As far as baptism of the Holy Ghost is concerned I find it very odd that those professing Christ would speak against it. Remember also the scripture about taking away from the word of God.

As far as tongues there is the evidence of speaking in tongues and the gift of tongues.

The evidence happens with the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Not all have the gift of tongues. Paul spake of the evidence of speaking in tongues with praying in the Spirit where the Spirit knows what to pray for when we do not and reveals things needing prayer we may not know of such as illnesses and demon possession. It prays the will of God.

The gift of tongues edifies the church. It can still be seen and requires an interpreter.

As for tongues ceasing when that which is perfect comes, when the Lord who is perfect returns and takes us to be with him we will no longer need the Spirit to pray intercession nor tongues to edify. Why pray in the Spirit when you are with him? Not only will tongues cease but this present evil world will be destroyed as well and all remembrance of it wiped from our memory.

As for the baptism of the Holy Ghost and salvation coming before being baptized I did not say that.
There is the water baptism and then there is the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Two separate baptisms. To take away the baptism of the Holy Ghost as separate is to take away from the word. Salvation comes through faith in the blood that was shed at Calvary by the Son of God. To believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that he died for our sins. It is the Holy Ghost that is the power from God to keep us saved. Once saved, always saved is not scriptural as some are listed as turning away.

It might be also wise to note the Holy Ghost will not tell one denomination one thing and then another denomination something different. It will lead into all truth and glorify the Lord so that all will believe and speak the same thing.

Denominations are divisions. In Proverbs divisions are an abomination and Paul said to avoid those who cause them. They are created by man as the word is clear about the faith of God's elect and that they were called Christians first in Antioch. Not Catholics or Methodists, etc. I have been a member of Protestant, Lutheran, Baptist, Pentecostal churches and noted the divisions and came out of that in obedience unto God. Not better than anyone else. Just being obedient.

I believe that you may have misunderstood some of what I said.

May God bless.

As for being poor being a requirement, I didn't say that either. Maybe you misunderstood what I said or I presented it poorly.

In Proverbs it is written:
Proverbs 30
[7] Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:
[8] Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
[9] Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

Jesus taught us to pray give us this day our daily bread and the children were commanded to gather a daily amount of manna. While it shows a daily portion of the word it also represents that needful to survive such as money.

A daily portion is not being rich nor poor.
When the Lord asked Philip how to feed the multitude he responded two hundred pennyworth would not feed them. $2.00 is not a wealthy ministry. Many of these lazy preachers that get paid outrageous salaries to do nothing should take note. Men have perverted the gospel greatly.

I am sorry if you misunderstood what I posted.
May God bless.

Some of what you posted I did indeed misunderstand.  Thank you for clarifying.  By the way, two-hundred pennyworth is not $2.00; it is 200 days' wages, one Roman denarion per day, according to Matt. 20:2.  How much is that worth now?  I dunno, but it would seem to be a lot of money!

As much as I enjoy doctrinal debate, I don't want to argue with you on this forum, so I'll only say that from my understanding of Scripture, I believe you are wrong in several fundamental doctrines.  For the sake of encouraging Christians who are struggling with trans issues, we ought not to muddy the waters so to speak.  Discipleship and training come after salvation; that should be our first message, not a trashing of pastors and churches.

I agree that the Holy Spirit is the source of understanding what the Scripture says, and that the Spirit of God speaks to us through the Word of God.  If an individual has trusted in the finished sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:9), repented of their own religious works (Mark 1:15), and humbled themselves before Jesus Christ as Lord (Rom. 10:13), then the Holy Spirit has indeed sealed and indwelt them (Eph. 1:13).  That being the case, the Holy Spirit can teach ANY believer, no matter what church they are in.

I had an old preacher once tell me, "God can strike straight with a crooked stick."  That doesn't absolve the stick from being crooked; it simply means that God is bigger than what any stick perceives himself to be.

I am sorry that you think I am trashing pastors. What you fail to see or maybe I have failed to present properly is that many do not know the difference between having the Spirit move on them like David and Samson and having the baptism of the Holy Ghost as Peter, Paul and the new testament churches of old.

These things are indeed vital for a saint of God to know where the word or teaching comes from. For example the Holy Ghost will give discernment of spirits that reveal unto he or she who has it whether or not a word comes from the Spirit of God, the spirit of man, man's carnal heart or man's lust.

With that said it is not bashing preachers and pastors that can not tell the difference and post or teach or preach things that go against sound doctrine. Examples would be Joyce Meyer's prosperity doctrine and Joel Osteen's live the good life now doctrine. Neither line up with the word of God but instead go dead against the very words of Jesus Christ.

If I was to give my opinion or say something that would judge them it might be bashing.

Instead sound doctrine from the laws and prophets show that the prophets were sent to show the children of Israel their sins. Like in the case of Jeremiah there are about 400 or so false prophets for every man of God. They will tell people what they want to hear and anger God doing so kindling his wrath. It is a  love for the people to warn against them in any matter that is not scripturally sound. Not bashing.

The word says in Ephesians that light makes manifest darkness. The light of the word manifests the darkness of the multitudes preaching and teaching contrary to sound doctrine. The word is bringing forth the side which is right and not judging. The individual bringing forth the truth is manifesting light and pointing out wrong. Not judging.

Sadly those who love darkness and hate being convicted of the Spirit call it hate. The word says unto the hungry soul every bitter herb is sweet. Not so for those who love darkness.

I happen to fear God and love others enough to attempt to show the difference between the word brought forth by the Spirit and that which is brought forth by the mind, spirit or teaching of man. To read things that are wrong and say nothing is not love. Maybe lack of love, fear or hate but to do nothing is not love.

Who truly fears God and loves transgender people?
Is it the one that will tell them what they want to hear out of fear or desire to be liked or for money or is it the one that loves enough to speak the truth even though that individual might be hated by the multitudes? Sadly, I suspect some even study to appease their own conscience with little regard unto the soul of those reading. Just as long as they feel good about themselves.

Personally I would rather have an anointed man of God rebuke me that I might consider his words and change my beliefs before I stand before the Lord and it is too late to change. I am not saying I am anointed but that this is what I would rather have happen to me if I am wrong. It means nothing to stand behind a pulpit and preach and teach if my words send people to hell.

I hope that this does not appear as being hateful. I just have to share that which I feel led to do. Sadly when it comes to the baptism of the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues the ones who come against it the hardest fall into two categories:
1: They profess to be Christians.
2: They don't have it.
From just common sense what is wrong with that picture?
That is like me a janitor trying to advise my doctor about how to diagnose his patients.
That is why I do not post about transgender issues. I am cisgender. How would I know what transgender people feel about most things.
I do know what the word says though about the rightly divided word of truth as brought forth by the Spirit.

I hope this doesn't offend you. It was not posted in anger or hate. It was posted in love and concern for all here. About issues of where wisdom should come from according to the word of God for their sake.

May God bless.