Quote from: Pleasingly Plump Jamie D on January 14, 2013, 04:44:18 PM
Beth Andrea, I have seen places where real oppression takes place.  I would not go so far as to compare jokes to political oppression and other forms of tyranny.  In fact, the comparison is offensive.

Real oppression doesn't happen overnight, Jamie. In fact, the time between the disparaging an entire group of people and their subjugation is often surprisingly quick.

What is offensive is turning a blind eye to the tools of oppression.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 14, 2013, 04:19:45 PM
That is irrelevant. Ethnic jokes are a way of keeping a people "in their place", and making ethnic jokes against "those in power" are a way of removing that group from their place. Keeping people in their place, and removing people, are both egregious actions against whole populations.

If it's justifiable because of past evils (none of which were done by those presently living), then we could justify oppressing any ethnic group, based on past behaviors and actions, even if it happened thousands of years ago. One of the basic tenets of justice is "the son shall not incur punishment for the actions of the father"...yet we see that in action here.

There was a time when blacks also partook of self-hating "jokes"...that's the basic argument for why NO ONE should use the "N" word, even (especially!) black people. Yassuh, Massuh Suh, we's be dum n happy fo' Massuh...

If you want to be oppressed, accept and perform these things...if you don't want to be, then DON'T. If "being squashed" is in fact a real threat, face it head on! Squash back! It's been done before in history, where a small group (not 10 individuals, but perhaps 10 individuals who rallied AN ENTIRE SUBJUGATED PEOPLE) took on a great power and WON. If you're not willing to fight for your place, then perhaps you are, by nature, a subjugatable people?

Hey, did you hear about the blond...

Hey, did you hear about the Jew...

Hey, did you hear the one about the priest...

Don't want oppression in any form? Don't do "jokes" that are tools of oppression.

Yeah I disagree with all of this obviously, my posts above explain why.  I think there is more nuance there, it's not quite so black and white.  It does seem like one of those situations where we have two fundamentally different worldviews going on, so we're probably never going to agree on this.

I guess that's one of the awesome things about the universe– you can have two intelligent people see an issue completely differently and for the most part both of their opinions can make sense and that can be okay. 

Quote from: Jaime on January 14, 2013, 04:43:29 PM
Ok, I'm sorry, but I'm starting to think I might just be a little too blonde to get this, but it just seems to me that you're really stretching things here where blonde jokes are concerned.

I could be.

But given in the US that ethnic and minority "oppression" (in the level of intensity Jamie mentions) has not happened in the US for 50 years or more...

What's to stop us from telling black jokes? And how quick is it from there, to Negro jokes...then to ni**er jokes? Pretty damn quick, I'd think.

How long will it be before blond jokes turn  into "white people" jokes? Then to "cracker" jokes? Then to "kill the white devils!" jokes?

But hey, telling ethnic jokes is harmless, right?

How hard is it for people to just say, "Golly, since this might be offensive to an ENTIRE GROUP of people, I just won't partake in these kinds of 'jokes'...I'm sure there are other kinds of funny things to say without calling an ENTIRE GROUP of people stupid, just for a laugh..."

Is it really that hard?

Quote from: Snickerdoodle on January 14, 2013, 05:08:21 PM
This is no surprise to me. It reminds me of something I said recently.

It will continue to be this way because there are a lot of stupid people out there that cannot think for themselves. They just regurgitate what they see and hear elsewhere.

I would agree with this. Blonde jokes are hardly the same thing as "jokes" made about homosexuals or black people for example. You don't see groups of people attacking someone because they have blonde hair. You don't see blonde haired people being lynched and you don't have "Blonde" and "Brunette" lunch counters, drinking fountains, etc.

Honestly, I could think of several things about myself to make fun of. The same would apply to other people and it isn't malicious or hateful. It's just having a sense of humor about how absurd so many things are in society, life, etc.

It's stupid to be so hypersensitive about so many things when it is nothing more than a waste of life and energy. Why waste your life worrying about stuff like this? You can't change some people no matter how hard you try and at the end of the day nothing will be shown for it other than wasted life, time & effort.

But a "blond joke" isn't about you, as an individual. It is about an entire group of people. (And was mentioned before, about blond women, in particular).

They also aren't about "absurd things in society"...the joke about the blond BMW driver who couldn't swim is a perfect example...is there a societal problem with people in general not realizing you don't need to swim across a field? No...it is a blunt statement that blonds are seen as stupid.

Let's take that joke as an example...

QuoteThere was a very successful blonde black business woman, driving out in the countryside one weekend afternoon, in her convertible Mercedes.  As she rounded the corner of a tree-lined lane, she looked out in the field and saw a blonde black farmgirl, sitting in a boat, trying to row!  On dry land!

This ditzy behavior made the businesswoman angry, so she stopped her car, and stood up, yelling at the farmgirl.

"It's dumb blondes blacks like you that give all of us blondes blacks a bad name!" she shouted.

"And if I knew how to swim, I swim out there and kick you ass!"

That would be a racist joke...and few people, other than skinheads, would dare to say that out loud in public.

***

Now, the thing is, why do I have to sing and dance to try and get people to understand this?

Perhaps it's because the TV doesn't say jokes against whites are bad? That in fact, jokes against whites are a good thing...again, look at South Park et al.

QuoteQuote from: Snickerdoodle on 30 December 2012, 07:28:58

    You see a lot of trends that were bred from the Idiot Box.

I wonder how many of you would suddenly decide white jokes are passe, if the TV said so...?

Quote from: Pleasingly Plump Jamie D on January 14, 2013, 04:44:18 PM
Beth Andrea, I have seen places where real oppression takes place.  I would not go so far as to compare jokes to political oppression and other forms of tyranny.  In fact, the comparison is offensive.

I have to say, you stole the words from my mouth. Go to the Dominican Republic, Beth. Women there can't even ride bikes or do many other things because it's frowned upon. Women there are oppressed. There are people oppressed in Chinese factories due to their economic status. There were people in the Congo being amputated with a machete simply for speaking out.

People laugh at blonde jokes for the same reason they do any other jokes: they find the jokes to not be things to take seriously. People know that blondes aren't all stupid, which is why blondes being stupid is known everywhere as a stereotype and a joke. The day when people start to consider such a thing to be a fact is when you should be worried, not when everyone is made fun of. EVERYONE.

Besides, if people had to stop doing things that entire groups would find offensive, then (gay people couldn't get married//blacks wouldn't be able to be considered as being people//birth control would have to be made illegal) to spare the feelings of Christians, you couldn't say "bless you" when people sneeze since it would offend atheists, you wouldn't be able to support feminism since it could offend a lot of men, you couldn't say that Superman would beat Goku in a fight since it would offends Goku fanboys, or do anything.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 14, 2013, 05:19:31 PM
Now, the thing is, why do I have to sing and dance to try and get people to understand this?

Perhaps it's because the TV doesn't say jokes against whites are bad? That in fact, jokes against whites are a good thing...again, look at South Park et al.

I wonder how many of you would suddenly decide white jokes are passe, if the TV said so...?

Ok, are you trying to call us stupid? You talk as though it's an easy thing to understand that people acknowledging how stupid a stereotype is and dismissing it as a joke is a bad thing.

I don't think jokes about anything are bad, as long as at the end of the day, you know that it's just that: a joke.

If you think that I'm some television mimic, then let me tell you that I, a minority, am against affirmative action. 

You are assuming that we have no idea where to draw the line at. We're not all sheep(sorry to any sheep that may be reading this) to that extent.  And I'm sure that blondes will not suffer employment discrimination or be afraid to go into brunette neighborhoods anytime soon all because of some jokes making fun of ludicrous stereotypes got a little out of hand. 

And  making a comparison between something as silly as blonde jokes and something as tragic and serious as racial oppression is kind of mocking what many ethnic groups have gone through during their overall existence as a group. There is just no reasonable comparison as far as I am concerned. 

And honestly, I just can't continue in this discussion beyond this point.

Quote from: Jaime on January 14, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
And  making a comparison between something as silly as blonde jokes and something as tragic and serious as racial oppression is kind of mocking what many ethnic groups have gone through during their overall existence as a group. There is just no reasonable comparison as far as I am concerned. 

You, Jaime, are one smart blond. Here's to you!

I have a question. Does anyone happen to know how blond jokes got started? Often, you can trace the origin of stereotypes. I'm just wondering if you can do this here.


Also, has anyone else noticed that many of these responses have an amazing little undertone of humor? I am loving this thread!

Quote from: Brooke777 on January 14, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
I have a question. Does anyone happen to know how blond jokes got started? Often, you can trace the origin of stereotypes. I'm just wondering if you can do this here.

What I had once heard was that blond jokes came about as a response to political correctness making ethnic jokes offensive. That "reason" had to be tongue-in-cheek. Or, I'm just really missing something.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 14, 2013, 05:10:00 PM


What's to stop us from telling black jokes? And how quick is it from there, to Negro jokes...then to ni**er jokes? Pretty damn quick, I'd think.

How long will it be before blond jokes turn  into "white people" jokes? Then to "cracker" jokes? Then to "kill the white devils!" jokes?

Don't we already have jokes like that?  I've heard so many "n***** jokes" and "cracker jokes" and "kill the white devil jokes".  The first I've heard primarily from the black community [same with the "cracker jokes"].  The last I've heard sparingly from that community, but I've also heard it from white people as well.

I've also heard a lot worse jokes from a variety of people, but they were said entirely as jokes and nothing more; the people were not being malicious and didn't believe anything about the jokes.  They were just jokes to them.  Yes, some people may find the jokes offensive, but not all will.

It's entirely a matter of subjective opinion as to whether or not a joke is inappropriate or what that joke means.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 14, 2013, 05:10:00 PM
How long will it be before blond jokes turn  into "white people" jokes? Then to "cracker" jokes? Then to "kill the white devils!" jokes?

But hey, telling ethnic jokes is harmless, right?

There are a lot of innocuous things in the world, which if enough one things lead to enough others then something bad could result.

I am sure you don't believe that acceptance of blonde jokes inevitably must lead to acceptance of kill the white devil jokes..  If the effect is not intrinsically tied to the cause, you really have to view and deal with them as separate things- blonde jokes possibly innocent, kill the white devil jokes probably not.

Quote from: Brooke777 on January 14, 2013, 05:32:56 PM
I have a question. Does anyone happen to know how blond jokes got started? Often, you can trace the origin of stereotypes. I'm just wondering if you can do this here.


Also, has anyone else noticed that many of these responses have an amazing little undertone of humor? I am loving this thread!

Google prolly knows..  I gave my guess earlier in the thread.

And yes, humor is very severe and serious business!

Quote from: Jen on January 14, 2013, 05:42:04 PM
And yes, humor is very severe and serious business!

I see what you did there. 

Well, people are gonna do what they're gonna do...and rationalize it all.

Have a good time with it.

Geez, you make it sound like we're performing some of the worst atrocities in history.

Beth, I know you didn't want anyone to say this, but you need to develop a thicker skin.

Although I view 'Blonde Jokes" to be on the same level as any other derogatory slur, I don't let it bother me

I just walk away thinking the person making such rude remarks to be ignorantly insecure and kinda feel sorry for them that they feel the need to slight others based on something such as hair color

Such rude and disrespectful comments are their problem, not mine

Quote from: V M on January 14, 2013, 08:43:25 PM
Such rude and disrespectful comments are their problem, not mine

Quote from: V M on January 14, 2013, 08:15:30 PM

Wimps!!!

- Disqualified -

Who's to say what's a rude and disrespectful comment? Of course, I wasn't offended by this, but who's to say that jokingly insulting someone over cold intolerance is not rude?

My point is that some people take things too seriously. Live a little.

Not all jokes are to oppress others, but most of them are.

But rarely some are more of the opposite.  And I might tell one I know of that was told to me by a blonde friend.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on January 14, 2013, 05:19:31 PM
I wonder how many of you would suddenly decide white jokes are passe, if the TV said so...?

I wouldn't be among them because I don't let the TV think for me. I don't even have cable.

Life is a joke 

Nobody is safe in my neck of the woods, we (my crew and I) would make jokes about anybody...we do not discriminate...whether you are: vertically-challenged, pigmented challenged, hygienically challenged, horizontally challenged, sex-challenged..etc , etc, etc...

Have not your heard the essence of being humans is the "we versus them"...

So, as far as blondes goes: "they rule!!!" please do not tell my girls they are both brunettes..