Little to nothing.  I had to have FFS in the States. Estrogen did contour my face to a more feminine look but not to the point that I could be "passable" as a woman.  One thing is to look like a woman and another is to look like a feminine man.  My observation is that if you're trying to succeed in life as your preferred gender, the latter isn't going to get you there.

One question for the HRT veterans here who had quick facial change (I had quick changes, but I am no veteran :-), are there more changes that happen past the first year? Or is there a plateau. Like Kate say, there must be a limit unless you want to look someone with mouthfull of cotton.

I suppose the face continues to accumulate fat, its just not as dramatic because it doesn't make you look like another gender, it just makes the cheeks a bit fuller.

I've been thinking of slightly deflating (about 5mm on one side, 3 mm on the other for a subtle effect) the masseter with bottox. It doesn't quite show in photographs, they kind of sticks out of my cheeks from the frontal view when I put any tension on the muscle (like smiling) and its the only thing that annoys me now. Its a minor thing and its reversible if I don't like it (just chew a lot of gum for awhile).

Anyway, for the long time HRT users, did you see/feel a reduction of your masseter over time, and if so, how long did it take? (a softer diet, not chewing squid or gum ;-), would reveal this quicker).

Quote from: Keira on June 03, 2007, 12:39:50 PM
One question for the HRT veterans here who had quick facial change (I had quick changes, but I am no veteran :-), are there more changes that happen past the first year? Or is there a plateau. Like Kate say, there must be a limit unless you want to look someone with mouthfull of cotton.

For me the first year or two of HRT gave me a softer skin and redistributed the fat on my face, so that my jaw line became softer, and quite quickly these changes allowed me to be perceived as female by people around me in shops and in the street.

Since then, I'd say there's not been much real change to my facial form, but I have noticed other, less desirable changes; my skin has become much thinner and is now much more sensitive than it once was.  For example, I never go out in full sunshine without some degree of sun protection on my face, otherwise I tend to burn much more quickly than I used to...

MVER XXX 

Quote from: Kate on June 01, 2007, 11:25:59 AM

Did I miss this yesterday or you just added it today?  Wow Kate, you know, forgive me, but I honestly believe that you are making a storm in a glass of water.  I just don't see how anyone in their right mind could see you as anything else but female.  Estrogen is your friend, and believe me, it (estrogen) doesn't like too many people.  Congratulations! you look great! so as I said once (remember?  ) go out there and conquer the world! 

tink

Yep, I forgot to mention Kate, you look great !!

MVER XXX

Quote from: Kate on June 01, 2007, 11:25:59 AM
Yes, I need a haircut/style, don't even go there, it's just a quick camphone shot at work during a bad hair day. Pre-HRT and 9 months HRT.

Bloody hell kate, you look fantastic, I wouldn't read you at all from that pic and I have a pretty sharp eye for trans signs.



makeup raw pics, sorry the old pic sucks i just don't have many pictures of what i used to look like.

Quote from: Kate on June 01, 2007, 11:25:59 AM
Yes, I need a haircut/style, don't even go there, it's just a quick camphone shot at work during a bad hair day. Pre-HRT and 9 months HRT.

Gee - I can not believe I missed this.

Kate - Your new Avatar Pic is on the right - I told you there is no more need for your muse. I hope you put the new pic up there soon - we all need to see the real Kate.



Alice

God I'm starting to be jealous about all the praise heaped on Kate.
Man, what's a girl have to do to get noticed around here (pouting) 

BTW: Mawd, god I wish I could take E at 18 like you,
I know I would have been an innocent eyed stunner like you, I just know it 

Yeah, gotta put better pictures to compete with the young guns here.. >




For good measure, finally found the multi-angle serie of photos I took on day 1 of HRT.
I recommend everyone does this. Do not be frightened by this, it is only ghost of things past.

All of you girls are so "right on." I don't think that I will ever change enough to post my pic. I am in awe of all who shared!!
-Barb

Quote from: Keira on June 04, 2007, 04:58:13 AM
God I'm starting to be jealous about all the praise heaped on Kate.
Man, what's a girl have to do to get noticed around here (pouting) 

BTW: Mawd, god I wish I could take E at 18 like you,
I know I would have been an innocent eyed stunner like you, I just know it 

Well, you ARE a stunner.  The tiny bit of FFS really made you amazingly beautiful, especially your profile pic.

I was the first person to praise Kate on her pic (via IM) and perhaps that helped give her enough courage to show herself on here finally.  By the way, Kate, I told you so.

Keira, your boy pic clocks girl to me. It looks a lot like some of my butch girlfriends.
Kate looks nice but I woudn't beat myself up if I were you. You still have some sharp lines that HRT will soften if you give it time. I don't know what your orientation is but most dykes would find you incredibly attractive.

My current avatar is a recent snapshot, with virtually no make-up but I had FFS. I still look at my high-school picture and wonder what I would have looked like had I transitioned then and if I would have needed FFS. Funny I was so pretty then I used to get a lot of lesbian girls interested in me.

Most days, but not all... I know I look pretty good, especially in all angles but the frontal ones, where my masseter sticks out the back, slightly squaring the jaw (not bad, but it annoys).

I'm so insecure about everything, never expected anything out of life... I want to be attractive to someone, physically, emotionally, god it takes a long time to rebuild self-esteem battered by decades of self-abnegation.

I was a zombie mess for so long, had no needs; now, I wake up at close to 40 and want so much to feel attractive, which is great part is just feeling good with myself, having compassion for myself.

For decades I never cared for compliments, especially about how I looked, but now somehow its important. Never expected or cared for any validation, or anything good, I was a half barren island lost at sea, but now, I need some validation, maybe I always needed it and just didn't think I deserve it

Oh my, I've got a lot of cobwebs inside to clean up.

Sometimes I feel like I'm trolling for validation. Thanks very much to all who not be annoyed by that!

I was looking at Keira's old picture, save for the hairline and hair...um you don't look male at all in those pictures.  More like a butch woman. 

I find noses really funny.  I think nobody really likes thier nose unless they change it, and even when they change it they may not like it.  You would have been fine either way. 

Quote from: Amy T. on June 04, 2007, 04:29:48 PM
I was looking at Keira's old picture, save for the hairline and hair...um you don't look male at all in those pictures.  More like a butch woman. 

I find noses really funny.  I think nobody really likes thier nose unless they change it, and even when they change it they may not like it.  You would have been fine either way. 

I like my nose.

Funny this is when I went to Brassard, it was not for the nose, it was useless (some internal problems meant I couldn't breathe through it, but I told myself I could wait to get it done). I went to brassard to get the brow bossing chopped off (that bothered me!!). But, I mentioned in passing that one day I'd like to get the nose done too and he went into his selling spiel about costing the rhino 1500$ less if I do it at the same time as the other and because I only needed tweeks (no breakage), I'd be low risk. Within minutes my mind was made up.

The differences are not massive: 6 mm shorter, 50% less wide tip, slight convexity, upturned end, better defined tip, the septum which showed clearly through the skin (which looked like somebody crayoned my nose) was covered in fascia so it wouldn't show, and finally the collapsed supra-tip and nostrils which had blocked my airways was fixed and I can breathe.  In the serie of photos, not much of this shows; but in person the improvement has been significant and I feel my nose is less intrusive. Your right, the nose was mainly I think for esthetic reason; though I also believe that because it is delicate that it does feminize my face even more (but that was not the main reason for getting it done).

A Rhino is rarely a big obvious thing most people think it is, a nose should not be the face's focus, that's the point of a nose job, to put the emphasis on other things (eyes, mouth, etc.). If the difference are so huge that it draws attention it iself; its a bad rhino.

Well I think you are beautiful Keira.

the main thing that i noticed in each set of photos was one thing that can make anyone look better in seconds. A smile. In the before photos there is no smile and in the after photos there is all kinds of smiles. A smile will always brighten up a photo of someone

so before that shutter goes *click* say cheese and hold it

Keira, what can I say, you really tempt me to check out a return to Montreal for some "mild" facial work .... and see Dr Brassard and Chantal once again  !

But going back to the original question, I found that HRT changed my facial appearance over 1 - 2 years to an extent that FSS became a "maybe" rather than a "necessity" in my list of priorities :



The big changes were a huge improvement in my skin texture, and a "plumping out" which changed the whole shape of my face ... made my cheeks so much more prominent, massively reduced the visibility of acne pitting, and even smoothed out the rings under my eyes !

Hard to believe the photos are of the same person, just four years apart and after two years HRT (and despite the "fuller" face I'm 30 lb lighter in the second pic !).

Despite people telling me that I look terrific for a 48 year old woman I still have huge episodes of self doubt in front of that morning mirror, where I just keep on seeing the "old me" staring resolutely back ... guess this is where FFS maybe helps ?

But I do "pass" without question wherever I go, can "pick up" younger guys who don't have a clue about my past with seeming ease (but even post-op feel I expose myself to big danger doing this), and I guess I have the estrogen pills to thank for being in this position .....

For info me (similar pic) after just 1 year HRT :
http://uk.geocities.com/laura_eva_b/Before_and_After.jpg

And 2 year pic full size :
http://uk.geocities.com/laura_eva_b/changes06min.jpg

Laura x

Quote from: Keira on June 04, 2007, 04:58:13 AM
Man, what's a girl have to do to get noticed around here (pouting) 

Good lord Keira, you're absolutely gorgeous! Even your "male" pics just look like a short-haired girl to me. Your features are so delicate and feminine... I've always been SO jealous!

~Kate~

I guess it is only fitting that I do a photo progression of myself for the sake of shock value.

Me when I was 14 or 15. It was a dare from a friend and I wasn't about to pass the moment up.
Me when I was in the Marine Corps.
My daughter and I in July of 06.
This was at Ocean City,MD 2 days after starting my RLT.
Me in September of 06
This is what I wore to my company's awards banquet in Dec of 06.
And of course, me now

And for the record, I too still see the masculine me poking through in the mirror from time to time as well. It is only natural and is not indicative of anything beyond that.