But this doesn't explain why burning (2x) follicles once is worse than burning (x) follicles once. After all, it's a very localised burn. If you do 2 hours and only have time to do, say, the chin and upper lip, I'm not sure what keeps you from using 2 more hours to work on the still untouched cheeks and neck, for example.

Quote from: A on January 18, 2013, 04:59:51 PM
But this doesn't explain why burning (2x) follicles once is worse than burning (x) follicles once. After all, it's a very localised burn. If you do 2 hours and only have time to do, say, the chin and upper lip, I'm not sure what keeps you from using 2 more hours to work on the still untouched cheeks and neck, for example.

This is about your body's time to recover. The tissue doesn't get vacuumed away by magic. It necrotizes (dies) and your body expends energy and various processes to rid itself of dead and dying tissue, and a boosted immune response to prevent or deal with the increased risks of infections and other problems.

I suppose you could ask someone who's really done more in-depth research about this, though. Usually, some things are done out of habit as much as they are done for a presumed health risk related reason. I may be inferring too much. Good luck finding someone willing to depart from conventional wisdom.

Btw, this conversation spurred me to start looking for other, more local electrolysis than the one that came up first from TG resources. One thing I discovered is that most of the local ones do have as part of their web page a page devoted to transgender-specific treatment. Not much in-depth detail there, but the interesting part is that almost all of those I found are using practically the exact same language... granted, they also used similar web design to describe all of their service offerings.

Except for one beauty salon that offers electrolysis along with a long list of other services, all those in my area make an effort to market themselves to transgendered clients. Granted, last time I was researching this much, the internet had barely been commercialized.

I guess it all has to do with the body's ability to regenerate as a whole. Though that makes me wonder: then, Electrology 3000 must be really unhealthy, being an intensive session over the span of a whole day, with several professionals working on one person. :/

Quote from: Elspeth on January 18, 2013, 05:33:06 PMGranted, last time I was researching this much, the internet had barely been commercialized.

Lol, doesn't make you any younger. Well, I'm no better, since here, the very few local businesses that have websites, if they don't downright consist in an online service, are mostly restaurants and shady suspicious newer businesses with a badly made website. It almost feels like the most successful the place, the lower the chance they'll have a website. I guess their old bosses don't see the need for it.

Edit: As a reminder, I'm still looking for answers to the following.

QuoteAlso, my mother called her aesthetician for me. She's cheap to begin with (my mother told me she was there for an hour and a half a few days ago, doing waxing and a little bit of electrolysis, and she paid 40 $ or so for everything). And she may do me a discount on top, because she's known my mother for 15 years and knows I'm a student and will probably need lots of it.

I hope she'll allow me to do more than 2 hours a week. I want it to be as fast as possible. Going slowly isn't needed money-wise, anyway, since my income is super low, and I'll be paying most of it out of savings. I know I can't be fully done right away, but if I could be done with the bulk of it, only needing to return for the "rising dead", by this summer, before I start school again in August, that would be good.

She's been doing this for many years, which isn't a guarantee, but it's much better than nothing. My mother assures me she's great. I won't take her word so easily, though, so what should I do to assess how good of a choice she is?

For example, when I ask what kind of machine she has, what's a "good answer"?

She gave me an appointment for an evaluation on January 31st. That should be enough time (2 weeks) after laser to assess okay, but it's a pity that it's too soon to have her do a test spot or something.

Or perhaps, if she has time, I could ask her to do a little bit in the space between my eyebrows, which would at least show me how much/whether she plucks. And I've always wanted to have that annoying spot done.

Additionally:

- I've postponed yesterday's laser appointment, because it was below -40 °C with wind chill, and I seriously didn't want to go out in that cold. I called the aesthetician about it and she said to call her once I have my last laser treatment, so she gives me an appointment for an evaluation a month later.

- When my mother was talking to her, she mentioned the possibility of maybe waxing my face for a while to soften the hair before going into electrolysis. It doesn't exactly sound good to me, but since when am I anything like an expert. What do you think? Assuming she says we should do that, should I accept? Refuse? Take it as proof that despite experience, she's incompetent? Take it as proof that she's really good?

I hope someone who's actually been through this will comment and correct any of my misstatements.

I did read something recently from a few different sources that suggested some forms of hair removal (such as tweezing) can make electro more difficult, because they risk deforming follicles and such. I don't know whether that applies to waxing or not.

Though I do seem to recall some long ago discussions that suggested, where a male-type beard area is concerned, that methods that women can typically use without trouble, really can't be done on that more robust set of follicles generated by testosterone exposure.  In some cases, practices related to treating the effects of PCOS might also apply to us, though?  Something tells me if waxing works at all on a male-type beard, it's likely to be really, really painful. I've epilated most other areas of my body but I wouldn't even try it on my relatively mild beard jaw and upper lip.

Probably good to check with the person you'll be going to, and maybe check other sources online (or more directly) to see whether there's any disagreement, and if there is, what the reason might be for varying points of views on that.  I really just want to be cautious, especially with anything where there's a risk of damage, either at deeper levels, or where there could be long term cosmetic problems resulting from making a hasty decision, based on just one person's assumptions and training.

Uhm, by the way, if by epilating you mean using an epilator, then know epilating is infinitely more painful than waxing. Waxing barely hurts, mostly, and with most strips I just feel relieved from the hair rather than in pain. Whilst using an epilator on my arms was an utter torture I couldn't help but moan loudly at. Waxing: Aaaaaah~, and off it goes. Epilating: Nnnnnnghhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaahhhhhnnnnnnnn pant pant pant.

Thanks for your opinion. I hope someone who's more sure can help me as well.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 18, 2013, 06:32:50 PM
I hope someone who's actually been through this will comment and correct any of my misstatements.

I did read something recently from a few different sources that suggested some forms of hair removal (such as tweezing) can make electro more difficult, because they risk deforming follicles and such. I don't know whether that applies to waxing or not.

I remember one girl who used tweezers on her facial hair because she didn't have a lot of money. Once she did she wanted to do electro and it was dead slow. Ingrown hairs, hairs growing under the skin, damaged follicles. All of that from tweezing. My electrologist explained that tweezed hairs don't grow back straight but start to form a j-shape under the skin. Eventually they can be untreatable by even electrolysis. That would have to be a truly lousy place to be for a trans woman.

For a typical 2 hour electro session, hairs will be removed all over the face.  The skin area around the hairr will get swollen after a short time.  Thats about a pimple size area, and not just the hair and adjacent cells. 

In that 2 hour session 400-500 hairs are removed, maybe more maybe less  There are oh 30,000 to 40,000 hairs in the average male beard. Each hair has to be zapped for 3 to 8 seconds depending on how much current/ "pain" you can tolerate.  It also takes a few seconds for the needle to be inserted into the follicle so that you don't get an insertion.  An insertion is where the needle punctures the cell wall.  A great electrologist will have almost none. If the needle is inserted straight there is no pain except for the current.  Depending on the area of the face the pain can be mild to bringing tears to the eyes.

I will tell you that the upper lip will be painful as there is lots of nerve endings around the nose.  For many its a pain filled hour or so.  I was lucky and had a really high pain threshold. Even fell asleep now and then. 

Generally hair will be removed from all over the face so as not to damage the skin too much.  It takes 2 to 3 days for the swelling to go down after each session.  The other issue is that there are three separate growths for beard hair.  That is many follicles will be dormant at any given time.  That is part of why it takes so long to really clear the face.   It generally takes about 100 hours of electro to clear.

If you have mainly dark hair, then laser will give you fast results for less money.  The down side is some hair will grow back and need to be zapped again.  Plus for some the hair grows back after 2 years or so.