Didn't want to hijack the thread so thought I'd start a new one to ask my question.

I seem to be experiencing similar to transtrender and Jen, but in an unhealthy and undesirable way. I guess I have changed and I'm none too happy about it.
I am *more* effeminate now as a male than I ever was as female. {See my blog for more info if you're interested}
I'm so much softer, more empathetic, nicer, etc. I'm now obsessed with decorating and interior design. Never even noticed the wallpaper as a female. Hell, I am taking fashion. Yes, you heard that right. F-A-S-H-I-O-N!
I have never sewn or so much as hemmed or stitched a thread in my life. And I certainly wasn't into fashion as a girl. Now I have some pathological need to design clothes.   

Even my mother noted: 'You were so much more of a guy when you were a girl'.
So, have you changed since transition? And are you ok with it?

EDIT: I will note though, that my thought patterns and values and everything internal is the same. It's my 'outside' behavior and hobbies that have changed. I'm more expressive, more likely to open up with female friends (only on here though; no cis female friends yet). I now have this huge 'empathy' thing that simply was not there before. And this empathy thing is driving me up the wall.

Quote from: Jen on February 09, 2013, 03:47:35 PM

Quote from: transtrender on February 09, 2013, 02:13:27 PM
i guess the greatest level on which i can understand gender is like this: the way i like and interact and am attracted to and have sex with girls as someone who's perceived as female is way different than the way it was as someone perceived as male.  being a straight dude just isn't the same as being a queer girl.  i don't act like the same person, i don't think like the same person, i don't feel like the same person.  and hell, i didn't start out transitioning finding asymmetrical haircuts and tattoos and piercings and conscious flouting of gender norms to be sexy.  i thought "those people" were weird, i thought they were rejecting their "natural beauty" or idk something stupid like that.  now i AM one of those people.  and i also find them all incredibly sexy!  the power of socialization is pretty strong.

This is the thing that always weirds me out.  The changes.  It never meant to become a different person through transition, and maybe I haven't, but when I go back and see things I wrote pre-transition and hear recordings of me talking pre-transition, that person does not seem like me at all.  My thought processes are different, the language I use is much, much different, the things that I felt were important about any given subject were different, and none of that happened by any conscious effort.

In fact, it was very important to me for there to be continuity between the person I was when I presented male and the person I became when I started presenting female, because I always told myself that I had always been a girl/woman pretending to be a boy/man.  If transitioning into the female role changed who I am as a person, whether by social or chemical influence it doesn't matter, that seems to contradict my ideas somewhat and I have to question them.

I think the changes that seem to have happened at my core weird me out more than the personality changes because I can explain those.  I am less of an introvert because I have less to hide.  I'm more of an optimist because life is better and brighter when there is hope.  I enjoying being with people because interactions with them don't have to be sharp, stabbing reminders of how my station in life is completely wrong.

That the way I think has changed, my use of language has changed, my interests have changed, these things freak me out.  I was supposed to be the same person just in a different wrapper that was more aptly reflective of the person within.  Intellectually, that was the point of transition for me.  I wasn't supposed to change into somebody else.

Quote from: Jen on February 09, 2013, 04:51:15 PM
That the way I think has changed, my use of language has changed, my interests have changed, these things freak me out.  I was supposed to be the same person just in a different wrapper that was more aptly reflective of the person within.  Intellectually, that was the point of transition for me.  I wasn't supposed to change into somebody else.

I just asked you this in the other thread, but since you're here now in mine:
Can you elaborate on these thinking, language, 'core' changes?

I could....  it's abstract though.  I'll have to think about it a bit to put it into words I think.  Hold please

Quote from: Jen on February 09, 2013, 05:11:04 PM
I could....  it's abstract though.  I'll have to think about it a bit to put it into words I think.  Hold please

Ok, sorry I keep asking you the same things thread to thread.    You can just put it here.

Quote from: Jen on February 09, 2013, 04:51:15 PM
I think the changes that seem to have happened at my core weird me out more than the personality changes because I can explain those.  I am less of an introvert because I have less to hide.  I'm more of an optimist because life is better and brighter when there is hope.  I enjoying being with people because interactions with them don't have to be sharp, stabbing reminders of how my station in life is completely wrong.

This echoes so much for me what I have felt in those (still fairly rare) instances where I've felt I could fully be myself, even without benefit of HRT. It's hard from me to get into this space, though, without somehow feeling I have permission to "just be me" rather than feel that I'm policing myself somehow (which has been the vast part of my experience, apart from times when I was less self-conscious in school days).  But I tend to feel that these would be the most important changes of all for me, presenting as female, even if some or even all people were "clocking" me.  I've actually pushed my androgyny even further femme in recent weeks, but I wind up feeling some pushback and self consciousness about that, and I do wind up "toning it down" as a result, and then the dysphoria tends to come shooting back.

The darkness that hung over me no longer does.  The changes have been really focused around discarding the chip on my shoulder I had from "Doing the world a favor" by staying in the closet.

I don't know that I'm becoming more compassionate, but I hope I am.  With no longer needing to guard myself all the time, I've got the energy to be there for other people.

As for perhaps mismatched interests I've got that too. I had writing task today, a six word love story.  Mine was:  Amtrak teaches love with its bumps.  Girl, boy, I love my choo-choos! 

My second oldest friend loves fashion too, don't know that he designs anything but he mixes and matches well.  One of my buddies from my undergrad days tops most women I know on the empathy front.  Heck, the end of Boston Legal episodes with the male bonding between Denny and Alan.  I can report a lot of guys want that kind of male bonding.

I'm trying to say that I don't think what you've described here indicates anything to worry about dude.  You like what you like, and you'll probably have really sweet mancave someday.  And you'll look good.  Who knows? Maybe you're on just the right track to be of the, "Men want to be him, women want to be with him" verity!  (sorry not-so FA, I don't know your orientation but I hope you still caught my meaning)

Yes, of course I've changed. If I ever stop changing, then it's time to bury me because I'll be a corpse.

In some ways, I've changed so much it would almost be easier to list the similarities between this Sarah and the previous iteration. I still adore stories. That's the same. Trying to think what else...

Luckily most of the folks in my life like this version better. I do too.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 09, 2013, 04:31:48 PM
I seem to be experiencing similar to transtrender and Jen, but in an unhealthy and undesirable way.

Seriously, dude? You are nicer and more empathetic. Yes. That sounds TERRIBLE. What. A. Tragedy.

Can I just say I like the current version and I wish you could be a bit nicer to him?

Quote from: Misato33 on February 09, 2013, 05:40:49 PM
The darkness that hung over me no longer does.  The changes have been really focused around discarding the chip on my shoulder I had from "Doing the world a favor" by staying in the closet.

I don't know that I'm becoming more compassionate, but I hope I am.  With no longer needing to guard myself all the time, I've got the energy to be there for other people.

As for perhaps mismatched interests I've got that too. I had writing task today, a six word love story.  Mine was:  Amtrak teaches love with its bumps.  Girl, boy, I love my choo-choos! 

My second oldest friend loves fashion too, don't know that he designs anything but he mixes and matches well.  One of my buddies from my undergrad days tops most women I know on the empathy front.  Heck, the end of Boston Legal episodes with the male bonding between Denny and Alan.  I can report a lot of guys want that kind of male bonding.

I'm trying to say that I don't think what you've described here indicates anything to worry about dude.  You like what you like, and you'll probably have really sweet mancave someday.  And you'll look good.  Who knows? Maybe you're on just the right track to be of the, "Men want to be him, women want to be with him" verity!  (sorry not-so FA, I don't know your orientation but I hope you still caught my meaning)

Thanks hon. I associate more 'feminine' traits with males. So, I think this is what has happened. I expect men to be more empathetic, and so I am.
Oh and just in case you really wanted to know, I'm bi. Unfortunately, I've had more men than women. And I have reason to believe that males are an acquired taste for me. I think the newfound 'feminine' traits stem from my relationships and interactions with males.

Quote from: Sarah7 on February 09, 2013, 05:56:09 PM
In some ways, I've changed so much it would almost be easier to list the similarities between this Sarah and the previous iteration. I still adore stories. That's the same. Trying to think what else...

It is comforting to know I'm not the only one.  I guess, ultimately, I'm glad I didn't know these changes would happen before I started transition because I feel like I would have resisted them, but in the end I'm super happy with who I am now.

Quote from: Sarah7 on February 09, 2013, 05:56:09 PM

Can I just say I like the current version and I wish you could be a bit nicer to him?

Thanks.  Hmm nicer to him? Not sure he deserves it.

Quote from: Jen on February 09, 2013, 06:26:31 PM

It is comforting to know I'm not the only one.  I guess, ultimately, I'm glad I didn't know these changes would happen before I started transition because I feel like I would have resisted them, but in the end I'm super happy with who I am now.

Well, I'm at least glad to hear that you are happy with your new self. That makes a difference. 

I didn't think anything had changed until I looked back at some of my older posts and videos and such.

Like you, my values and stuff are the same, but a lot of external things have changed. Although I was never super "butch" before hormones, I find I'm becoming simultaneously more masculine and more feminine.

We're going off stereotypes when I say "masculine" and "feminine", but I'll just use them to make sense of what has changed. My mannerisms have changed to pretty male all in all. Same with facial expressions, how I think about particular things like organization, etc. But I am more open to doing things that as a "woman" I was never comfortable doing. Just a small example...a few days ago, I was messing with my brother's girl perfumes (I know, lol) and I sprayed a cherry blossom one on my sweater to see how it smelled. And I actually really enjoyed smelling like cherry blossoms. It was weird, because before T, that would have made me feel so dysphoric and terrible. Even when I was presenting female I could only wear male deodorants and feel comfortable.

I also, like you, am developing an interest in fashion. Not to design, and I certainly haven't acted on it, but I find I want to experiment with more colours, styles, accessories. The only thing stopping me is the fear I wouldn't look very good doing it.

I also find I'm not really fighting my female socialization in the way I used to. I used to hate being more expressive (sometimes still do, when I'm insecure or whatever). It was always a goal to act more like a manly guy, be a bit more aggressive, whatever, and I believed as I became more comfortable as a man that would happen. But now, I simply have no desire to be that way. I really like being a "softer" type of guy.

What's funny is, none of this has made anyone see me as a gay man. My voice still has female tones and stuff, but the rest of my mannerisms aren't that feminine anymore. I don't move my eyes as much, my expression is a bit "harder", but not stern, and I don't use as many gestures and stuff. Everyone (as far as I know) just thinks I'm a feminine straight guy, and I really like it like that. My entire life, people were always pushing me to take an interest in fashion, stereotypically feminine things, to be softer...and I always pushed away and fought like hell. It is only as I slowly begin to pass and see a guy in the mirror that I can do these things.

Just curious though, why don't you like your changes? I sometimes feel weird about mine, but I mostly know inside me it's right.

I'm much more aware of visuals than I used to be. Not just naked male torsos () but how my place is decorated and how women put together a "look." I don't care about women's fashions, but I notice colors more.

I'm less patient, so I have to rein myself in when I'm working with frustrating students. It's becoming less of a struggle, though. I'm much more able to draw the line with students, and I'm less of a pushover. At the same time, I'm more understanding and empathetic--probably because I'm more comfortable with myself and how I'm seen.

I've always been a ham in front of the class, but I used to be more tentative about it. Now I just let 'er rip and don't worry about what they think. I'm just me, and that's the way I am.

I'm much more in tune with my feelings--partly because I'm turning them off less and partly because the T seems to make some emotions a lot "bigger." I'm still struggling with feelings; defrosting at the same time the T is acting on my brain has been, and continues to be, fairly scary. A few times, I've said and done stupid things. I'm vigilant and make fewer mistakes now, but that also means that I'm holding myself in, the same way I used to. Same old pattern, and I'm only just realizing it and beginning to work on it.

One thing I wasn't expecting is fear--fear that I would do or say something I'd regret. I still have to keep a vigilant eye on myself. I think of myself as a teenage boy who sometimes blurts things out or leaps before he looks. If I successfully survive adolescence, I'll settle down into new patterns. One of these days, I'll be more comfortable, more in control, more relaxed. Not as scared.

All in all, I'm a better and happier person, although I still have some major issues to work through. I recently told someone that I liked it better when I had my emotions turned off, but sometimes I feel that way and sometimes not. Being an emotional zombie is truly a double-edged sword, for both men and women.

I guess I'm becoming human, and that has advantages and disadvantages.

Yes I have changed, more than I ever thought. 

When I tried to transition in my early 20's I had a very close female sis friend whom I used to share everything with and when I came out to her she used to tell me, "Ok now you are going to be a girl, so you should adjust your mannerism, you should learn to cook, etc. there were so many stereotypical do's and don't she told me and it scared everything out of me, it scared me enough to put my transition on hold. there were so many stereotypical traits I hated and I didn't wanted to loose who I was.  I was never a feminine boy.

But after 18 months in to HRT I have changed in many ways and much than I ever though I will. Iam still not a stereotypical feminine woman but I like  more feminine things than I used to and I really enjoying doing them too. I am more concern about how I look and It takes hours for me to get ready before I go some where. before HRT, it only took couple of minutes. I didn't care about anything as long as my out fit was androgynous.   Before my transition I hardly though about my self  with self respect and I was always putting my self on the edge. I was a careless person who never thought about my self or future for a second which made me a very selfless person. I would give away and anything I owned to others and I would take time to solve other peoples problems even if it means getting in to trouble my self. I always put my self at risk for others to get out of trouble. I always concerned about my friends future and willing to sacrifice my self because I  never thought of my own future. Making others happy was the only goal in my life and I did everything I possibly can to do that.

But I am not that person any more. I still like to help others and I am still someone with lot of empathy. But now I am thinking of my self more and more. I think of my future and I am not trying to help others if it means getting my self in trouble. That way I think I have become little bit of a selfish person.

The way I present my self my mannerism had changed a lot. I am much more grace full than I used to be, But I am not too feminine. I am still adventurous and a adrenaline junkie like I used to be and guys love it. Specially the ones who doesn't know about my past. For them I am just a fun girl who love adventure and enjoying doing crazy things they liked to do. I am loving being that girl.

Yes, after my transition I have changed. My mannerism had changed, The way I speak changed and even the way I think and feel have changed. But my core, who I was had never changed. I don't know the changes are for  better or worse. All I know is I am much much happy now than I ever was.

Quote from: anya on February 09, 2013, 11:33:07 PM
Before my transition I hardly though about my self  with self respect and I was always putting my self on the edge. I was a careless person who never thought about my self or future for a second which made me a very selfless person. I would give away and anything I owned to others and I would take time to solve other peoples problems even if it means getting in to trouble my self. I always put my self at risk for others to get out of trouble. I always concerned about my friends future and willing to sacrifice my self because I  never thought of my own future. Making others happy was the only goal in my life and I did everything I possibly can to do that.

Wow. This part really speaks to me. I knew I was doing this in a lot of ways, but I didn't put it together like this until I saw you saying it.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 09, 2013, 04:31:48 PM

I'm so much softer, more empathetic, nicer, etc. I'm now obsessed with decorating and interior design.

I can't find anything wrong with a guy being softer, more empathetic, nicer, etc. Well for me these are some thing I seriously consider positive traits in any human being,Male or female. Iwill always prefer a guy who is  softer, more empathetic, nicer over a guy who is rude hurt other feelings and too macho.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me you are my type of guy lol. I will be honored to have you as a friend any day.

About the decorating and interior design. I know loads of men who love those. As an Architect I can tell you there is nothing wrong being obsessed with design. I have lot of straight male friends obsessed with Architecture, interior design and even fashion design. That's just who we are 

Yes.

I have opened up alot more, and have gained the ability to be myself without giving a damn about what others think about it .


Other than that, I have become more sensitive. My interests have very much changed, before they where machines, military history, computer gaming etc. Now I have lost all interest in machinery and military stuff + that I cant stand to play computer games more than maybe an hour (before I could sit a wole day without problems.

I also gained some interests like makeup, fashion etc.

Sexually there is a diff too, before I was only into girls. Now I can go with both but I am still more into girls than guys.



Another funny thing is that it seems that I have got the ability to joke . Before nobody would laugh when I did. Now people laugh even when I am not joking intentionally. I like it

I'm not on T yet (soon) but there have been changes. I am more assertive than I used to be. At work, I had been workign without an assistant for all last year.  A month ago, I said "I should have an aide for 6th period". The next day I got one. Another thing is that I like how I look. I never liked how I looked.

--Jay

Quote from: Arch on February 09, 2013, 09:57:21 PM
One thing I wasn't expecting is fear--fear that I would do or say something I'd regret. I still have to keep a vigilant eye on myself. I think of myself as a teenage boy who sometimes blurts things out or leaps before he looks.

This is what I'm talking about with the sort of 'hamstringing empathy' I'm going through. Like I'm soo careful what I say now. I mean, even to the point of rereading my words before posting here in case there is anything that could possibly be taken the wrong way or offensive. Like I'm so concerned with people's feelings now. This is supposed to be a female trait. It kind of scares me. Everyone knows what they say about nice guys.

Quote from: Caleb. on February 09, 2013, 07:13:34 PM
Just curious though, why don't you like your changes? I sometimes feel weird about mine, but I mostly know inside me it's right.

Hmm. Well, I do like the new interests in 'female' things like interior decor and fashion design. I feel weird about it though. Like now I'm just 'acting like a girl', I guess. I mean I know cis guys do these things too. But having been born female, I'm not sure liking these things is very flattering to me.

I wanted to take fashion for several years (nearly the same time I transitioned), but resisted. Found the very idea ludicrous and threatening to my manhood. And sewing? Seriously? I've gone off the deep end. Not only have I never done it in my life, but I can't fathom why I want to do it. I even <cringe> thought about possibly making drapes when I get my sewing machine. <shudder>

Don't overlook the obvious of who you were before and who you are now. For example, before my transition I was a very quiet introverted person. In fact it was very difficult to get to know me at all. I can remember one way it which it showed was at work. If I were speaking from a position of knowledge or authority, then I would speak up for myself because I knew I couldn't be challenged, but idle chit chat in a conference room? I was hopelssly lost and just sitting there. I was a very miserable person in my past life. If there was a company gathering I never showed. I didn't even want to show up once when they were honoring me for some achievement.

Fast forward to today, in the same conference room I am just as likely to speak from a position of knowledge as I am likely to use humor, idle chit chat, getting to know someone personally, human interaction in general. I am also 100 times more likely tol et my feelings be known to myelf or my boss. I am more likely to show any emotions that are needed, happiness, sadness, disappointment, anything. My gender transition turned me from a dark miserable to a functioning happy human being. How can I ever knock that even in a hundred lifetimes?

After I started living full time as a woman, a giant tidal wave of represssed feminity came gushing out of me. Suddenly I was let loose on the world. I could wear a skirt, a dress, tight fitting jeans, heels, or flats. I remember the joy of getting my ears pierced, what a wonderful moment that was. I became an earring hunt, buying pairs of earrings all the time. I remember getting my first manicure and pedicure and having gel nails with designs on them. Wearing sandals to show off my pretty toenails. I was a portrait of perfect feminity.

I threw away everything from past, my music, love of cars, my desire to be left alone, so that I could experience the world unfettered. I wll never forget about 9 months of living full time I was looking at one of my guitars and I was actually sad because I couldn't play it. So I slowly and painfully pulled off my gel nails so that I could play my guitar once again. It was around that time that I began to realize I really didn't have to throw away my old life. In the days when I transitioned, there was still an expectation that a MTF becomes a woman and takes on housewife role, cooking, cleaning, etc. I was saying f*** that, that's a worse trap than where I came from. I was like the little canary who grew up in a dark lifeless cage. Did I want to move into another cage, or did I want to be free like I was at that moment, with no cage and no boundaries? I chose freedom.

I do know that SRS surgery changed me psychologically. I was definitely a different person after it was done. Before the surgery, every square inch of my body was feminine, except a few. That surgery fixed the last few and suddenly I didn't have anything to hide anymore. I was all girl and I knew it. It was a real gamechanger of an operation for me. I was a woman unleashed and had no cage or boundaries. I could do anything, experiment in any topic or thing, be it masculine or feminine. It took me a few years t realize I was a fusion of 2 people, the person I was and the person I was and in fact still am becoming. My masculine upbringing gave me oodles of confidence and assertiveness. Far more than any born woman could ever have. My freedom gave me extroversion. I lik bonding wth people, chit chatting. I am about to leave to the gym after I finish this post and I am looking forward to chatting it up with my women friends there.

I guess what I am saying is, we can never escape our pasts. Admin, you yourself are a fusion of who you are and who you were just as I am. It's what makes trans people so unique and different. A man who isn't a thoughtless prick, or a woman who isn't afraid to bust her knuckles on a project. We are the truly free ones because everyone else lives in a gender silo except us. We can stay in silo for a while if it makes us happy, or jump over to the other silo if it that's what we want to do. Or for that matter we ca do choose no silo and move where we please. You like sewing clothes, I love busting knuckles. None of that changes the fact that I am a woman or you a man. Enjoy the differences and look down with pity at the people trapped in the silos.