I can't really describe it any other way.

Perhaps I have simply been dealing with too much intense stress for too many years from too many sources to the point I find myself unable to really cope with any form of concerted intense thinking on anything at all any more.

Nothing I try and do is easy any more. It takes me so much effort to get doing anything.

Right now, I am trying to re arrange the hobby room so I can rebuild my book cases. 20 years ago, I could make a dozen book cases day every day for a week. Now, I find myself sitting here, just unable to get under way to move the models from point A to point B, with point B being a different set of shelves meant only to get the models off the book case so they can be dismantled and rebuilt.

But It's been several days, and I just sit here often so listless and under motivated. I just can't focus, can't concentrate, just can't get underway.

It's not energy, heck I could drink a case of energy drink and feel nothing.

And this lack of ability to just concentrate and decide to do something, often anything, intrudes on every sector of my day and my life.
Eating, going to sleep, heck I have even sat here and been unable to resolve if I want to do something a guy normally doesn't need to think about...get off.

I've been wanting to research a range of ideas connected to my girl problem. Shopping for 'things', but, I can't get the drive needed to just do it. I feel like a battery that refuses to charge.

I wasn't always like this. I used to like doing several things at once. Now, I consider just deciding on a TV show to watch to be a breakthrough. I think one of the reasons I walk so much, is it's very low effort on the decision making process. Dress, walk, drink hot chocolate, go home. Kills 3 hours and takes no thinking.

I can't 'go on vacation' per se, I have been disabled since 94. I am just glad my day has almost nothing to place demands on me.
It is almost 10 and I have basically sat here mostly and have done almost nothing all afternoon.

I wish I knew what the secret was.
It has at least helped with telling people about my situation I guess. I simply don't have the energy needed to fret.
I think if someone actually DID react poorly to me in person, I'd be inclined to just tell them, 'fine, get lost, I don't have the energy to mourn your loss'.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 14, 2013, 08:52:36 PM
I can't really describe it any other way.

Perhaps I have simply been dealing with too much intense stress for too many years from too many sources to the point I find myself unable to really cope with any form of concerted intense thinking on anything at all any more.

Nothing I try and do is easy any more. It takes me so much effort to get doing anything.

Right now, I am trying to re arrange the hobby room so I can rebuild my book cases. 20 years ago, I could make a dozen book cases day every day for a week. Now, I find myself sitting here, just unable to get under way to move the models from point A to point B, with point B being a different set of shelves meant only to get the models off the book case so they can be dismantled and rebuilt.

But It's been several days, and I just sit here often so listless and under motivated. I just can't focus, can't concentrate, just can't get underway.

It's not energy, heck I could drink a case of energy drink and feel nothing.

And this lack of ability to just concentrate and decide to do something, often anything, intrudes on every sector of my day and my life.
Eating, going to sleep, heck I have even sat here and been unable to resolve if I want to do something a guy normally doesn't need to think about...get off.

I've been wanting to research a range of ideas connected to my girl problem. Shopping for 'things', but, I can't get the drive needed to just do it. I feel like a battery that refuses to charge.

I wasn't always like this. I used to like doing several things at once. Now, I consider just deciding on a TV show to watch to be a breakthrough. I think one of the reasons I walk so much, is it's very low effort on the decision making process. Dress, walk, drink hot chocolate, go home. Kills 3 hours and takes no thinking.

I can't 'go on vacation' per se, I have been disabled since 94. I am just glad my day has almost nothing to place demands on me.
It is almost 10 and I have basically sat here mostly and have done almost nothing all afternoon.

I wish I knew what the secret was.
It has at least helped with telling people about my situation I guess. I simply don't have the energy needed to fret.
I think if someone actually DID react poorly to me in person, I'd be inclined to just tell them, 'fine, get lost, I don't have the energy to mourn your loss'.

To me that sounds sort of like depression, just without the sadness.

What do you think?

Hi Depression can manifest in many ways. I have suffered with it for years. It may just be that you have been doing to much and its over whelmed you to the point of exhaustion. I which case i would say you need to take a short break and look after yourself. But from what you have said it sounds like reactive depression. If there are a number of things happening for you at the moment, They may be small things. They can add up and although you don't feel sad depression doesnt nesassarily manifest in that way. A lot of the time it manifests in lethargy, tierdness amoungst other things. It is probably worth seeing you doctor to ask about this. They may be able to recommend some strategies to help. Or possibly some short term antidepressants which can be usefull temporaraly. I would also suggest getting plenty of excercise and eating healty. May sound like a silly thing but if you are healthy in body that goes a long way to a healthy mind. Dont over do the excercise though.

Depression, imho.

"Depression" (the medical diagnosis) has very little to do with sadness (the emotion). It's a chemical imbalance in the brain which prevents or reduces one's ability to enjoy things, to motivate oneself, and to be positive/upbeat (relative to the person's core personality)...among other things.

There's something like 15-20 chemicals used by the brain to function and process information...if one is too high or too low, or if several are off...it's tricky to treat.

Therapy is one suggested method, but a doctor can prescribe different meds for depression and/or anxiety (which you may have, and not necessarily know it). The meds are thought to provide the missing chemical, or to negate an over abundance. Of course, the docs don't know, because there's no way to take samples and measurements within a living brain, without making it a dead brain. But, based on observations and patient responses, the meds work.

Typically they prescribe the lowest possible dose, wait a month, then ask how you are doing...better, "just ok", or worse...based on that, they adjust the med up, down, or stop. Depending on how you describe the depressive effects, is part of how they know ("guess" may be a better word) which medication to prescribe.

There's at least half dozen different "families" of medications available, and many drugs within each family.

Sounds an awful like depression as stated above.  A psychologist would potentially be beneficial though you can go to a psychiatrist who might prescribe anti-depressants along with therapy.  Therapy is about the only way I can deal with depression though the Prozac definitely helped me. [One of the therapy suggestions was to write 10 things down that I liked about me and read them daily.]  But I need both in order to function properly.  I've been a year without...so...I'm not a happy camper.

As Shannon said, exercise may be able to help [it helps some people because of it releasing endorphins (it may not help all and I'm one of those people -- exercise just makes me feel horrible)], eating properly, etc. may also help.  It really depends on the person, though.

Anyway, -hugs- and I hope you find something that works for you to help you through this.

Not just exhaustion, pure depression,

I have these states, just lay, don't eat, barely go to toilet and be like this for weeks if it comes to me.
Be careful and be near to someone who can look at you

Quote from: Sky-Blue on February 14, 2013, 08:57:36 PM
To me that sounds sort of like depression, just without the sadness.

What do you think?

Have to agree with Sky Blue and others here.

Depression doesn't always come with sadness. Lack of motivation is a more telling factor.

Depression can create exhaustion.

I will not hold it against anyone for not recalling I have been disabled with fybromylagia since 94 but the paperwork reads 'depression' because in 94 fybromyalgia was still an unknown and a crock to a lot of the medical profession.

Yep, I have been depressed for more than a decade, heading to 2 decades now. Who wouldn't be. I am social baggage, a defacto ward of the state. I have no income at all. I have next to no pride as a result. My self esteem is barely existent. I lost all of what I thought I wanted in life, and then to cap it all off, I find out that dream was a man's dream, and now I find myself in the wrong body

It's a miracle I am still alive.

But I suppose my sleep quality sucks, my diet likely inadequate, and add to that all the stress of finding out I look like a fairly typical man, with a frustrated woman inside.

I am not on any meds, I have been and they never accomplish anything positive. They either make the sex organ malfunction and then I have to live with a whiny male voice in my head, or they simply do nothing in the case of the last prescription which thankfully didn't make the gear inoperative.

Ideally I want a med that makes me actually happy. Or at least something that would make me feel more like a woman, which would not bother me. I have pondered HRT (if I have the purposes correct), and to be honest, if the stuff were to make my hair refuse to be like it is (all over out of control body hair growth with the exception of it won't grow on top of my head), and if I were to grow noticable breasts, something to at least give a bra a reason to be present, and if it helped my voice sound more feminine...... well to be honest, the only reason I need a penis that functions like one, is so I can put it in the wife and let her feel like she's just been with her husband. Otherwise, I'd rather suffer the withdrawal symptoms of needing sex all the time to some extent. But my marriage would suffer, and I have enough suffering being dumped on her.

It is just that it gets bothersome trying to get anything done in my day when my capacity hardly deserves the term 'capacity'.

Meds just make matters worse. They gradually become less effective if they every were.

Quote from: spacial on February 15, 2013, 08:11:33 AM
Meds just make matters worse. They gradually become less effective if they every were.

I support that comment.

I take Tylenol only when I am totally at my wits end. I prefer solutions like a very hot bath for aches n pains.

Quote from: spacial on February 15, 2013, 08:11:33 AM
Meds just make matters worse. They gradually become less effective if they every were.

It depends on who you are.  I was barely functioning before getting onto Prozac and when I was on Prozac, my anxiety lessened to the point where I was able to implement the strategies given to me in therapy [I was in therapy for social anxiety and depression].  It also made my moods more stable with less "downs".  Therapy was also heavily involved and helped make things better.  The two together were great.  Either on their own was okay, but together and there was improvement.  It's very much a 'ymmv' thing, though.

Are you taking a T-blocker? That can have the same symptoms in some people

I've heard of fibromyalgia, but never knew what it was. While reading the Wiki about it, I found these interesting little bits:

QuoteThe brains of fibromyalgia patients show functional and structural differences from those of healthy individuals, but it is unclear whether the brain anomalies cause fibromyalgia symptoms or are the product of an unknown underlying common cause. Some research suggests that these brain anomalies may be the result of childhood stress, or prolonged or severe stress.[8]

...

Fibromyalgia, a central nervous system disorder, is described as a 'central sensitization syndrome' caused by neurobiological abnormalities which act to produce physiological pain and cognitive impairments as well as neuro-psychological symptomatology.[20] Despite this, some health care providers remain skeptical about fibromyalgia as a disease because of a lack of abnormalities on physical examination and an absence of objective diagnostic tests.[21][22]

...


Fibromyalgia is frequently comorbid with stress-related disorders such as chronic fatigue syndrome, posttraumatic stress disorder, irritable bowel syndrome and depression.[8] A systematic review found significant association between fibromyalgia and physical and sexual abuse in both childhood and adulthood, although the quality of studies was poor.[39]

...

What caught my attention here (I'm not a doctor or any kind of medical-type person) is the repeated mentioning of "childhood...prolonged...severe stress", "lack of abnormalities on physical examination (in other words, they can't find anything physically wrong with an FM sufferer)", "absence of objective...tests", and finally (although the article is much longer) "physical and sexual abuse in childhood."

These are almost identical to what my condition (dissociative identity disorder) mentions....severe and prolonged childhood sexual/emotional/physical abuse, lack of objective tests, etc. In fact, my condition used to be called "multiple personality disorder" back in the 70's, and by the early 80's it was DID. Many mental health people don't recognize it either, for the reasons given above...no "objective" tests.

I would suggest seeing a the*apist about your FM and depression. Give him/her a while to talk with you, maybe 3-6 months. (I learned I was "severely traumatized" by the third session, without revealing anything substantial to my the*apist, based only on my body language and things that I'd casually mentioned, without realizing how intense the events were... = suppression of memories).

Perhaps you've already seen one (or two, or...) and think they don't do any good. Be careful to not blame them, they just find things that are already there, but which you may not know about. If you're healthy (other than the depression), great. They'll  find that, too. But if you resist going to see one...that in itself is a little warning flag that perhaps something doesn't want to be found.

Beyond this...I can't help. I just feel your intense despair thru your writings, the hopelessness of it, and encourage you to get professional help. Your best bet is to talk to a the*apist. (Sorry, but I have to block out the one letter, because otherwise I see two words which hurt me.)

*hugs*

Take care!

My ex got her disability many years ago for fibro, and like you she is getting it for manic depression.  Now I guess they have new medication that is suppose to treat the fibro and that helps with the accompanying depression.

Good observations Beth.

Yeah my childhood had some 'issues' although I am not sure they were in any fashion sexual.

I suffer from migraines, and they are thought of as a form of seizure I think. Seizures, are best thought of as the same as turning a computer on and off improperly. Can't be good for the brain.

What's annoying about my own fybromyalgia experiences is the very random nature, and the fact that sore hands might mean you used them too much, but sore legs might mean the condition just likes bothering them even though you have not over done anything with them.

And you have not lived through hell till your entire body decides to ache all at the same time. I have experienced suicidal levels of depression in my life, but, NOTHING compares to the mental stress of being in inescapable all over pain that is resistant to any form of pain relief including the most powerful medications short of something given in a hospital for severe injury. I have been in so much pain, I simply wanted to die just to stop the pain.

But one of the problems of fybromyalgia, is you might have some other ailment, and it might be responsible, and you might accidentally blame it on the fybromyalgia, and that is a major hassle, as it is so hard to nail down what is and is not fybromyalgia. I have for instance 'lateral shear stress' in the muscles of the bottom of my feet (that's how the doctor told it to me at least). It basically translates to 'my feet consider anything as twice the effort, so walking a mile to my feet is the same as walking two miles, not one. Standing for an hour is really 2 hours to them. Thus, my feet hurting, it might not be the fybromyalgia most of the time.

But stress in one's life, is still stress. And having several good sources just means you have a good chance of being stressed.

I tell most people I chat with, if I won multiple millions, my reply likely is build a home far into the wilderness where trees are common in density all so I can daily enjoy being able to walk around butt naked all the time. Largely because it de stresses me to be in a natural setting utterly devoid of any contact with the modern world or even a remotely civilized one. I am not a nudist, I simple need to feel the presence of no influences other than nature around me. The home likely would not be worth much, it would just be a dry warm secure place to sleep at night. Millions does not equal fancy clothes fancy cars and lots of technology. It does not involve lots of travel and lots of fancy dining. It likely ends up with 'what ever happened to Lesley?' Because if I had the millions, I'd likely end up mostly disappeared. I'd be somewhere under a tree reading a book with a picnic lunch and totally naked.

One form of mental exhaustion though that I have, it is entirely non physical in origins, and not easy to discuss.

I grew up with my nose in a text book.

I have mentioned it before in posts here. I think I have over educated myself. I think I have delved into too many places, into too many topics and done it too deeply.

We all worry about the big questions of life, but, I don't think most do it quite as intensely as I have.

Death, do you worry about it much?
Do you really concern yourself about the nature of reality?
Do you wonder much about whether this life is all that there is?
Are you religious, and does being religious matter much to you really?

I have tackled the above from more directions than most are even aware of in the first place.
And at the end of the day, it can be very tiring.
Some answers, you don't really want to have actually.

I spend a lot of my time being intentionally immature, as I have found that in some respects, being serious too much is actually harmful.
I spent most of the last decade on forums discussing may topics that usually ended in arguing. And in the end, the final result is often discussing politics and religion is about the best way to learn to hate. You don't learn much of anything else other than how to really hate people.

I have found anime to be almost the exact opposite. It is mainly an escape from serious. Most anime is silly.
When a person comments 'isn't that meant for kids', I often wonder, if it is safe for kids, why should I have a problem with it?
Kids should be told to not watch the news actually, it's not safe to watch the news.

All I have gained from 40 years of text books, is a problem with having to many answers making it too hard to avoid being too serious especially when I can usually rip apart a badly stated argument, and not needing to get my opinion by copy pasting something via Google

All I have suffered from from watching shows meant for kids, is the ability to laugh at silly things again, and to remember what being a kid felt like.

To be called 'immature' is to be told you are doing it right.

Oh yes, I have done my share of reading/learning/trying to understand. At one time I was very intense on trying to figure out the spiritual/non-Earthly plane(s)...I eventually figured out that, for me, that path leads to insanity.

So I stopped, and turned my attention to the Earthly world, and focused on 2 or 3 subjects, and over time gathered 15 boxes of books and innumerable websites saved to my computer.

I also learned to hate how one cannot talk to people online in a discussion...the "Internet Big Man Effect" comes into play far too quickly. It's interesting that you mention it's easy to learn to hate...that's how I feel about it, also.

I also understand how pain can drive a person to suicide...you have physical pain, while I have mental/emotional pain, many days are completely enveloped by it.

*hugs*

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on February 16, 2013, 07:43:32 AM
Good observations Beth.

Yeah my childhood had some 'issues' although I am not sure they were in any fashion sexual.

I've heard this before.

We have come to see sexual abuse as being the most traumatic thing that can happen to any child.

Yes, it's traumatic and wrong, but it isn't by a long stretch the worst that a child can experience. The most serious trauma any child has to endure is being alone. Devoid of affection, attention. Some children behave in quite disgraceful ways, violent, aggressive, destructive. In reality these children are expressing the same need that all children have, to be wanted.

Now I won't get into a discussion of the significance of sexual abuse. The pervert scum are only too ready to take any excuse they think they can use. But I've been following this thread and even without details, it is obvious you experienced what no child should have to endure. That a sexual element was absent is just a small blessing in a very large tragedy.

Just adding that because I think you need to know.

Quote from: spacial on February 16, 2013, 10:32:53 AM
I've heard this before.

We have come to see sexual abuse as being the most traumatic thing that can happen to any child.

Yes, it's traumatic and wrong, but it isn't by a long stretch the worst that a child can experience. The most serious trauma any child has to endure is being alone. Devoid of affection, attention. Some children behave in quite disgraceful ways, violent, aggressive, destructive. In reality these children are expressing the same need that all children have, to be wanted.

Now I won't get into a discussion of the significance of sexual abuse. The pervert scum are only too ready to take any excuse they think they can use. But I've been following this thread and even without details, it is obvious you experienced what no child should have to endure. That a sexual element was absent is just a small blessing in a very large tragedy.

Just adding that because I think you need to know.

As someone who's had both done to me...in my case at least, this is very true. In fact, it was the very emotional abandonment of those who should have been there for the child, that really causes catastrophic issues later on in life...

One thing I carried around for toooooooo long was the unexpected lingering effect I suffered from when in my teens.

I was I think 14-15 somewhere around that. I was at a cadet summer camp. I was puled aside by the platoon sergeant who proceeded to tell me I needed to act dumber, I was intimidating the others and I was risking not fitting in.

It took a loooong time for me to realize it, and it had lain dormant for a long time. I had inadvertently become the gangs' default target to put down, as I had actually done too good a job of pretense at being dumber than they were. I never resisted being told I was wrong, I was never the sort that would make another person just shut up when it was clear they had no idea what they were talking about.

One day a close friend told me, he thought I was as smart as he was, and this was to me a very great comment. Especially when I later remarked in conversation to the usual guys, that if they indeed thought he was likely one of the smartest of their acquaintances, then how did they account for the fact he considered me as smart as he is. There was all sorts of scoffs and snorts of derision. I was very disgusted at them for the remainder of the day too. It greatly soured the gathering for me.

But it was the kick in the ass I required I suppose. It got me sufficiently pissed off. The hell with them, I CAN run circles around the entire lot of them. None of them is really my equal intellectually.

The only downside is I am constantly getting people telling me I sound superior and arrogant. It's unavoidable to some extent. Currently you can't hear my voice, you can't see my face. All you see is the rather superior looking arrogant seeming assertions. And thanks to the internet and Google, we are all pretty much used to people claiming to know something that they merely typed into a google search. I rarely use goggle for anything other than product searches.

I wasn't born with an encyclopedia in my head, I had to put it there deliberately.

But I have suffered over the years with being too clearly overly informed. Too unusually overly educated.
Hell it even screws up my visits to the shrink. I have actually sat there and realized that some actually think I don't have any problems. I sound far to coherent to be a person with problems!

I have for the most part rarely 'fit in' over the years.
I am used to it, but, it does hurt to not 'belong'.