Kia Ora,

For example...Would all their holy books have to be 'doctored' to accommodate this ?

Or would the preachers just do what they normally do, which is, be very 'selective' when reading and interpreting scriptures ?

What would they need to change [without corrupting the teachings-which they say are the foundations of their faith] for them to 'full embrace' the LGBTQ community?

Metta Zenda

They all need for their god to come down here, and kick their ever-lovin' @$$.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 10, 2013, 01:42:42 PM
They all need for their god to come down here, and kick their ever-lovin' @$$.

Kia Ora Beth Andrea,

Sadly, this would mean 'never' ...

Metta Zenda

Quote
Or would the preachers just do what they normally do, which is, be very 'selective' when reading and interpreting scriptures ?

I've heard of various Christian churches getting together and aligning their various teachings with other, non-Christian, religions..."Ecumenical" I think it's called. That's probably where things are going, imho.

There will always be people who hate others...whether it's Christians who hate LGBTQ, or LGBTQ who hate Christians, etc. There's not much we, as humans, can do to completely eliminate hate, and honestly we probably don't want to do that. We can and should work to minimize it as much as possible...but the fact is "diversity" means that there are all sorts of people out there...and not all of them do things that "we" might approve of.

Such is the human condition.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 10, 2013, 01:58:06 PM
I've heard of various Christian churches getting together and aligning their various teachings with other, non-Christian, religions..."Ecumenical" I think it's called. That's probably where things are going, imho.

There will always be people who hate others...whether it's Christians who hate LGBTQ, or LGBTQ who hate Christians, etc. There's not much we, as humans, can do to completely eliminate hate, and honestly we probably don't want to do that. We can and should work to minimize it as much as possible...but the fact is "diversity" means that there are all sorts of people out there...and not all of them do things that "we" might approve of.

Such is the human condition.

Kia Ora Beth,

That's interesting...I guess what come to mind for myself is, will they have to "change" their god in some way, in order to accommodate
the LGBTQ...

Metta Zenda  

Liberal Judaism does not have much of a problem with LGBTQ. My old rabbi (a well-known one) always placed more importance in identity and culture than belief in god. He was totally accepting of me.

Unfortunately I don't ever foresee a complete acceptance of the LGBT community in. The whole of christian faiths...at least not in my lifetime.  It's really disheartening for me to see people turned away from a house of God just because they're being themselves.  Why is it that for the most part the christian community sees the LGBT community as a group that needs to be prayed for and for there 'coming back to the Lord'.  I don't think the Lord would be any less in my heart (personally) whether I was straight, gay or trans.  I hope that there will be change soon, and in my lifetime. That would gladden my heart to no end, but I'm not expecting it:(

Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 10, 2013, 04:54:51 PM
Kia Ora Beth,

That's interesting...I guess what come to mind for myself is, will they have to "change" their god in some way, in order to accommodate
the LGBTQ...

Metta Zenda

Well, that's the point. They do not need to accommodate the LGBTQ (or anyone, for that matter). "We don't want their kind here" is the fundamental element of ALL groups, even anarchists. If you are "in" a group, then by definition there are those who are "out" of the group.

There's no reason to accept or accommodate any individual or group, within another group, unless there is sizable money involved. And even that will cause a split in the original group--some will accept the new rules, others will not, and will form their own group (or expell the ones who want to be inclusive).

As an atheist I don't want to be accepted by theists. They don't have the power to deny me anything.

Quote from: tomthom on March 10, 2013, 05:28:35 PM
As an atheist I don't want to be accepted by theists. They don't have the power to deny me anything.

Kia Ora Tomthom,

That's true, acceptance by the religions will not have any bearing upon the atheists, but I guess in places like the US where religion does pull some strings when it comes to making policies, acceptance by the theists could be very beneficial for US trans-people in the long run...


Metta Zenda

I believe that they simply need to turn to the teachings of Christ, which should be a no-brainer - given that they're Christians.

There also needs to be a less antagonistic approach toward them. Yes... I know - There's always the ol' Well - They did it first!; but trading barbs will never result in understanding.

If they can't reach out to us, p'haps we can reach out to them.

With regards to reindoctrination, let's start with a fact that not all Christian denominations are anti-LGBTQ. There are two lesbian pastors at my church, and two of the seminary interns are gay (1 each male & female). When I gave a testimony at my church about being trans, I got a standing ovation from the approximately 200 persons there.

Or, is the United Church of Christ not considered to be part of a mainstream religion?

How about Soto Zen Buddhism? I've gained complete acceptance there too. Wicca? Asatru? Yep, got there acceptance too.

Religious acceptance of LGBTQ persons is not as rare as the news media would suggest.

Oh, and I forgot to add that there are several same-sex couples, some with children, at my church too. And, I'm not the only trans person there.

And let's not dismiss the Unitarian Universalists. They're a mainstream religious tradition too.

Not to take from your experiences, Constance - because I think that they are wonderful, and it sounds like a fantastic church... but I think that being in San Fransisco is a bit of a qualifier.

I live in West Texas, for instance - and I have a difficult time seeing that level of acceptance here (though I could probably leave the church alive, at least - folks are mostly friendly enough  ).

Actually, San Mateo is not nearly as liberal as San Francisco. But I think I follow your meaning.

Remember that the greater SF Bay Area is not a haven. SF isn't really, either. Part of SF are, yes, but also Gwen Araujo was murdered here in the greater SF Bay Area.

Well... I'm not particularly active in church, but I do have a keen interest in them.

I'm actually pretty fortunate that my town is fairly progressive (but it is so only relative to the region... and by stretching the definition of "progressive" a fair ways).

I just don't see the point of getting them to be on our side. I figure my generation, with almost none of my personal peers (about 800 or so spread over a wide geographic region, encompassing almost all of the US) being religious(maybe 2% actually practice, 20% tentatively believe, the rest are atheists), will wrap this up in time without the need for religion's support and acceptance.

good riddance to it anyway. It's caused enough harm.

Quote from: tomthom on March 10, 2013, 09:51:14 PM
I just don't see the point of getting them to be on our side. I figure my generation, with almost none of my personal peers (about 800 or so spread over a wide geographic region, encompassing almost all of the US) being religious(maybe 2% actually practice, 20% tentatively believe, the rest are atheists), will wrap this up in time without the need for religion's support and acceptance.

I have thought this same thing, at times - and wish it to be true. I am skeptical that the demographic you suggest is representational at large, but that may be because I am not often around younger folks.

I s'pose time will tell...

Kia Ora All,

Well I guess I should have added "Organised"  mainstream 'Organised'-Religion, to stop confusion...Plus the thread is about all Organised-Religions not just Christianity, however Christianity does seem to be the main culprit when it comes to restricting LGBTQ rights...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: tomthom on March 10, 2013, 09:51:14 PM
good riddance to it anyway. It's caused enough harm.

The pastor who helped keep me from killing myself caused harm? Wow. I'm glad I didn't try turning to this site when I was suicidal.

Your comments are quite likely true of some, but most certainly not all, theists.