My sympathies, Maria.

It's difficult to comment with precision, given I don't know what you look like, how old you are, or whatever-else, but it's plain fact that, no matter the factors, your experiences as described are painful, and possibly traumatizing. I'm sorry that the world is like this, and I offer you a figurative shoulder to lean and cry on, if you will. And on that note, I hope you have found appropriate and effective emotional release - or that you will find it soon.

It's a heartbreaking situation, but there are ways of coping, and hopefully, things learned from your transition can be carried over to make living as male a less miserable existence than it once was.

I will note, though, that moving to a smaller town might help your situation. I don't know how far you are from passing, but smaller communities tend to be more forgiving in this regard. I pin much credit to my passability on the fact that I live in a small town - I don't know if I would be terribly successful in a place like Las Vegas, either.

Being a stubborn optimist (almost a silly statement, given how dark I usually am), I like to think that there is always a way to fix a problem. So, it is my thought that there may yet be salvation for your face. Hair transplants can be quite effective at managing recession, and noses are really quite diverse - it may not be realistic to get more work done on it, but it may not be as bad as you think. As for your chin... if it's too small, now, then a chin implant may help, though I know it's not a perfect solution.

To hope. I believe that you will find your happiness, and I hope that it doesn't have to take you very long.

Maria, would you mind posting a picture? Maybe one of your nose-down so you don't identify yourself?  Just to let us know if it is indeed that bad, as we criticize ourselves the most out of anyone.  Maybe since you are so self conscious that it bleeds out to your outside appearance, making some sort of terrible self-fulfilling prophecy?

I'm so sorry that you feel like this,I wish I could do something.I don't pass,I'm 6'1half inch,I'm over 17 stone with big hands,size 11 feet and a gruff voice.How many of us do pass to be honest?I worked with the public for many years as a bus driver,after a bit the novelty wore off,I got abuse and rude comments,sometimes I ignored it,other times I'd tell them to go **** themself,sometimes I reported transphobic  abuse to the police.Eventually I got a reputation of someone not to be ****** with and a good and kind person.I still work with the public,I'm a landlady/manager of a guest house in England's busiest seaside holiday resort.Don't give up because of a few losers,they have a problem not you.

I sent you a private message.

Mainly posting this so I can follow the thread easily.

Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 03:08:54 AM
have told me, I pass better as a woman when I am dressed manly. Isn't it strange?

No, that's not strange....

A MTF is a born male so dressing up (very) femme accentuates masculine facial AND body features. Despite HRT.

Dressing up androgyne or even masculine wil accentuate the acquired feminine facial/body features because of HRT.

I've seen this fenomenon quite often on MTF....dressing very femme, and *poof* all masculine facial and body features show like a bright light.

Women's clothes aren't made for wide shoulders, a big trunk, no waist, narrow hips etc *even* when it fits, the masculine body features *will* show.


I've seen the very same, very unpassable MTF dressed as 'men' too and *poof* they look like somewhat butch women in men's clothes.

Their hormone altered faces look more feminine above men's clothes.

Quote from: TessaM on April 01, 2013, 11:04:33 AM
who was your ffs surgeon?

From what I can tell, she's referring to Dr. O.

Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 02:49:10 AM
or delusional. In fact, that is why I see many transsexuals walking around convinced that they pass when they don't and people are reading them as books. 

This is so, so very true!

I just wish I had a teensy, tiny fragment of their delusion.

"Critical thinking skills" and "being delusional" are two, very different, things.

True, one's current appearance (or hoped-for future appearance) is subject to bias; some people are biased more toward excessive beauty, and others toward excessive ugliness.

But, the process by which one ultimately arrives at their goal is NOT to be determined by delusion. No trust in the pro's, or complete faith in them, are both recipes for disaster, mainly because your perception of the outcome won'tmatch up to the reality.

Finally, I did not suggest being violent when confronting the gigglers...if you pay any attention at all, be peaceful, direct, and firm in greeting them, and having them tell you what's on their mind. This requires a bit of understanding and patience, and you won't convince them today. But, you will have planted the seed that TS are humans too.

Your choice as to whether you want to hear any of this.

Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 03:08:54 AM
I know how people feel on this forum that I shouldn't care and I shouldn't let idiots rule my life, but it's easier said than done. I was expecting difficulties but not all these difficulties.

People are social beings. It's pretty freaking hard to turn off your "I care what other people think/say" utility. And constant ragging gets one down. I don't know what the answer is to your problem, but detransition sounds ghastly. I wish you all the best.

This is a very sad, sad story and my greatest nightmare. I agree with a lot of the androgyne dressing tips that have been given and really hope you find some sort of happiness to comfort you. I often think about stopping transition its tacks for this exact reason. Part of me thinks no matter what I'll never pass and to just find peace in my MAAB status.

Kia Ora M,

Just a few questions... Did you test the water 'RLE' prior to surgery ? And how long was it for ? Did you 'experience' the same kind of ridicule ? And if so...were you told that things would get better once you had surgery ?

Metta Zenda

Maria, I read your posts and feel so much pain and suffering. I hope you can find respit from your torment.

The sisters and brothers here all mean well for you and hope for you the best.

I can only offer a shoulder for support; I am there for you.

thanks again for the support. It surprises me that some posters here feel that you can still have a good life being unpassable.  This might sound political correct but it can't be further from the truth. Tell me where an unpassable transsexual can live a good life and I will run to that place. We live in a society and not on a desert island. Our identity is shaped by how others perceive us. I can convince myself that I am a woman, but if everyone out there sees me as a man in a dress, what's the point? Really? If everybody out there gives me constant negative feedback in all forms, how can I possibly convince myself that I am a woman? The constant ridicule, laughing, nudging can drive you crazy. And the disrespect, the discrimination in restaurants, public places, housing, jobs. You can survive for a bit, but then you become paranoid.

Another poster apologized for being harsh with me and telling me things like that I am the one who is prohibiting herself from going to the gym. I have heard these things again and again. Let's suppose I go to a gym. There might be 99 women who are cool and don't care and see me as a weirdo but still are polite, but then, it can take only one who can make a stink about it and I have to go through the unnecessary stress of complaining with the manager etc. And I change the gym and it can happen again.

I was born with gender dysphoria. Transition and living as a female made my gender dysphoria much much worse. I still don't understand all the people who say that transition made their gender dysphoria better. Everyone around me told me that I was going to be much happier living as a female, but hell no. In my case, my gender dysphoria was less when I was living as a man. Why? Because I was not constantly reminded (read again: constantly reminded) of my physical limitations.

As for my surgeons, it's pretty obvious who is he, and I don't want to mention his name.

can I ask you how you became more passable? Because I also read and hear people saying that passability is something you achieve with time, operations, experience, but I really can't imagine that. After you have had FFS, hair removal, dress and make up appropriately, Hormones, I mean, the bone structure will not change. It's the bone structure that gives us away.

Quote from: Albina on April 01, 2013, 10:59:09 PM
Despite all the previous discussions, I agree with Maria completely that passing and unpassing is very important in social life for the TS people. Since, as I understand it (and at least for me), my final aim is to integrate completely in our society into the women's side.

Here, where I live, in one of the Central Asian countries, the boundaries between men and women are very much abode by. And just a little bit of clothes variation to the side of an opposite gender causes unhealthy interest of the public. MTFs are very rare here (FTMs are many more) may be because of the very negative attitude.

In my experience, when I have a good pass now (no one even look at me suspiciously any more, and they properly addressing me. And believe me, our society is much different from the west world - so, it is not the matter of politeness I say here), people (especially women) are treating me very well and understanding, since they see a woman in me - both, internally and externally.

So, dear Maria, what can I advise? Find your way what you would be most comfortable with. I understand you and feel for you very much!
With all respect and love,

Albina.

Quote from: cynthialee on April 01, 2013, 01:41:29 PM
I sent you a private message.

Mainly posting this so I can follow the thread easily.

I received your message, thanks a lot. I am unable to respond, though.

Thanks again

by the way, a list of a couple of things that make me very depressed (despite the obvious of being called 'sir' and being outed).

1) going shopping. I hate, hate, hate shopping for clothes and shoes. Any transsexual, transgender I have talked to is shocked when I say that I hate shopping. They say "women like shopping". Isn't it obvious why I hate shopping for clothes and shoes?
2) going to the hair salon;
3) having my nails done

I'm sorry transitioning has not been good to you. I haven't read all the responses so I don't know if its been asked. But what are the chances you'll ever be able to go back to being a man? After three years of hormones and ffs is there a chance that you will look the same as before? I hope I'm not sounding rude or obnoxious asking this because that's not my intent I'm really just asking

Hi.

I happen to be different not a dresser or trans , im intersexed, yes a female  / male , nether one or the other ,

Yet im accepted as a normal woman of over 65, i knew at age 10 what i was did not really fit in with boys or girls  though i tryed.
I did not like  how i looked, in fact hated any one with a camara, if i saw any one with that thing i was gone .

Am i any different now  well ....no.... i dont look like a woman or female , because of my facial features,  so think along the lines of why the hell do i dress in two  different time 's of wow those womens clothes are just so lovely, i look out of place as to lovely frilly feminine clothes forget it, yet im in the public domain all the time seen by 1,000 's of people,  get on plane's & go over seas & dressed in my Renaissance garb = clothes  again looked at by 1,000's .

Who am i trying to fool. myself & even think i look or can look like a female / woman. do i pass or blend in not a show in hell.

Okay im makeing all this up so i can look cool or what ever,  sorry the truth is i dont pass as a female or woman yet i am ...ONE... just not a compleat in all of my body  face i missed out there,

Yet you know what,   iv been in front of over 3 millon people  yes you r  reading it right,   talked to 100's about my life as a woman one who is different, had interview's done with my pic's for Papers ,

& how did i feel about this , well i was prepared for it yet i did not think i would ever be accepted for who i am. & that has been most of my life, so i know what its like & im a female. i had to grow into a woman i was not a made one it was hard yet i have got where i need to be,  no i did not transtion  well how could i being intersexed yet i had issues to work through,

I know what hardship is about, i was allmost distroyed, in my life i  looked at our grandchild & she keeped me alive , she is 10  y 4 m's   now . i still have my days of dont look in the mirror  theres no woman looking back yet you know there is just not a beautyfull looking one thats all  , is it only about how i look .

No my beauty comes from with in & that shines to all who meet me see me & get to know the real who i am, so you see if i hung onto how i should look i would never be accepted because  i fail in my looks .

I get embarrised being around other dresser's & trans because they surpass me in looks

so am i accepted or not on the grounds of how i look or am i accepted bassed on who i am as a person. im accepted as a woman regardless of my looks  as iv been told not all of us woman are born with that female  look , im one of those who missed out  yet im still a woman, that pic = avatra is how i look & seen.

...noeleena...

Quote from: unpassable on April 02, 2013, 12:39:37 AM
It surprises me that some posters here feel that you can still have a good life being unpassable.  This might sound political correct but it can't be further from the truth. Tell me where an unpassable transsexual can live a good life and I will run to that place.

Well I wouldn't call it a feeling, more of an observation based on talking with non-passable MtFs who say they are very happy with their transition.

I live in central Maryland, United States, but I suspect there are a lot of places where a good life is possible for those of us who don't pass well.

It might also require a state of mind where clockings and stares/giggles are ignored and where an individual carries a strong sense of worth and value as a person.

(Chiming in only on location - you could try the Northeast, specifically Western Massachusetts. I don't want to judge "passability" of anyone in general, but I do know one 6'2" 300-lb trans woman who says she's pretty butch - doesn't want to change her [baritone] voice and routinely dresses andro/male - and has had no problems aside from an occasional "Sir... oh, I mean ma'am." As soon as she makes it clear she's female, like by introducing herself by name, everyone is perfectly respectful. I think it's because people in New England don't pry into your business. She has a job, an apartment, has found a husband, and says she's generally very content. Also, in Northampton there are enough cis butch lesbians that people assume *everyone* is female until proven otherwise; it's probably a tough place to be a trans guy!)