Kia Ora,

I guess I should make it a bit clearer...When I normally think of RLE I tend to associate it with being already on HRT and doing the RLE as a  prerequisite to surgery, but it's been pointed out, there are some professionals who advocate RLE prior to HRT...

I just can't get my head around why a trans-person, would want to rush into having major surgery, without actually testing the waters first, ie the RLE...No doubt they have their reasons and part of the reason for this thread is to find out why they would want to do such a thing...I'm not judging, just curious...

When I transitioned there was no gate keeper as such, there was no deadline for me to go full time, I had already changed my name and I didn't intend to have surgery, so no RLE...However after around 4 and half years full time, I had the good fortune to be selected for government funded surgery and part of the criteria was having to do the RLE, which in my case was 'irrelevant'...

The way I see it, all the RLE is. is just to see if one is 'truly' comfortable in their new role, "mentally and physically"   

Also please note: Opinions are just that 'opinions' and we all have a right to them...

Metta Zenda

Carrie has gone and made me think I need to amend my post because I think I had some blinders on when I wrote it.

Indeed, those who don't have a social emphasis wouldn't really fall under to what I had to say.  I think it does apply to those paths like mine where there was a lot of fog and little certainty.

I'm just concerned about people who look to HRT to be some kind of panacea.  Or those who can't get out and live their life yet because they need to address this or that about their appearance.  Oooh, I'm getting groggy so I don't know how much sense I can make this.  So, in short, I'm afraid of that constantly moving goal post.  First they'll be comfortable when they start HRT, then improving the voice, then focusing on FFS, then it becomes something else new before they'll really be comfortable.  I think my RLE set me free from that risk and really helped enable me to start living my life.  It's nice.  I just want others waiting in the wings to have the experience too.

Quote from: Kuan Yin on April 02, 2013, 10:27:27 PM
Kia Ora,

I guess I should make it a bit clearer..   

Also please note: Opinions are just that 'opinions' and we all have a right to them...

Metta Zenda

It's okay, agreed. I wasn't sure where you stood on the issue and I actually have similar feelings to you.

I was just voicing an opinion too, but it's also important to remember that I'm in a somewhat privileged position here in London.

I'm a strong advocate of better support for trans people when transitioning and going through RLE because I feel it would make such a difference and allow more people perhaps more opportunity.

I'm also aware that in most cases it isn't that the trans person doesn't want to go through RLE, it's more that they can't or don't have enough opportunities.

But I just felt that I would throw the opinion out there because it is an opinion and something perhaps worth considering. Sometimes disagreement leads to a learning experience.

Warmest wishes.

Misato, understandably so. I suppose I am only able to make the post that I did because I was of a very sound mind when I decided to start HRT, and I was pretty much 100% sure that my gender issues were my only issue. But again, I definitely see where you're coming from. Some do think that HRT and SRS will solve everything, when in reality they won't, because the problem goes much deeper than that, and is about self-acceptance more than actual need for change. So yeah, I guess a good umbrella rule would just be to go to therapy, and keep some guidance along the way to make sure that what you're doing really is the correct thing to help you, and go from there.

And I'll admit, going out in public for the first time really is one of the things that sealed the deal for me, and made me realize that I was finally feeling completely cured. Because after that, I no longer had to worry about whether any other changes with HRT or the voice or anything would happen, because I was pretty much there already. But again, without HRT, without those physical changes, without that boost in confidence in my "girl mode" and that sudden sense of actually starting to like myself for the first time, I never would have been able to get myself to that point in the first place. So it really is a confusing thing. I don't know what to think anymore. I wouldn't be where I am now without both 2 months of HRT changes plus the public experience that finally came as a result. So, Yin, Yang, Sunrise, Sunset. I wouldn't have had one without the other.

You know, honestly, now I'm starting to change my mind. I didn't realize just how much my public experience helped me until I've been thinking about it just now. Before then, the thought of HRT not doing enough was mortifying, and I got into some serious depressive bouts of uncertainty over it, where now it's not as big of a deal because I know I can go out in public without stares already, so I'm much more able to relax and just go with the flow.

Whatever... I don't know what to think anymore. Darned multi-sided arguments where the counter-points are completely valid and make perfect sense...

Quote from: Kuan Yin on April 01, 2013, 11:50:56 PM
Kia Ora Tristan,

How long were you living as "Tristan" in the eyes of the general public before having surgery ?

Metta Zenda

I spent the majority of high school as a girl and it caused so many issues once my patents found out and the school started treating me bad. Ended up in military style boot camp for boys but as soon as university started and I was free for good my total transition took almost 6 months

Oh and as far as rle for surgery goes I said the heck with it cuz I'm a girl and I like boys haha. So seeing as my exit is not ever going to be open for business I wanted that classic muff so I could enjoy boys. I was not about to let any dobtor tell me what I could do with my body and when. I was like I want it so I can have sex ASAP! Outta my way doctors

Quote from: Tristan on April 02, 2013, 11:34:38 PM
I spent the majority of high school as a girl and it caused so many issues once my patents found out and the school started treating me bad. Ended up in military style boot camp for boys but as soon as university started and I was free for good my total transition took almost 6 months

Quote from: Tristan on April 02, 2013, 11:34:38 PM
I spent the majority of high school as a girl and it caused so many issues once my patents found out and the school started treating me bad. Ended up in military style boot camp for boys but as soon as university started and I was free for good my total transition took almost 6 months

Kia Ora Tristan,

Thanks for responding to my question...

I guess you were one of the lucky ones whom from a young age didn't hide who you were, so the RLE was not such a big deal...

Metta Zenda

To me RLE is just something for the profesionals (I.E. surgeon,therapist,endos) for the sake of their paperwork  I never really believed in the term Real Life Experience  cause it was always phrased in such a way as it seamed it was a test.

and to me I didn't understand how I could participate in a test when I was clearly a girl and nothing else. I dont know a test to me meant it was something you would do and be done with, and I didnt see how you could basically live your life as a girl and than be done it was confusing to me .
I just started living my life as who I was and never looked back, I felt I couldnt as it didnt feel right.

I don't consider RLE as a test anyway. Actually I was so eager to present as my desired gender that I went into full time at a very early stage with no one's prompt. Is it RLE what I have experienced? Maybe. But in my opinion it is only the beginning of a new stage of life. I don't need to prove anything by showing it to anyone.

I don't really need RLE records, since I will not have surgery in Australia. In Thailand or China, no one will seriously check evidences for RLE. The only reason why I go into full time is that I wish so much to live as a woman and to be recognized as a woman.

Yeah people always knew and figured it out with me rather early so I just said the heck with it and be myself. It was tough and all but worth it and all the troubles

Kia Ora,

Real Life Experience for some, can at times be a 'testing' experience.... and that folks, is what it's all about !

Passing the comfortability test, as nothing to do with 'passing/blending in , it's all about how one will cope with the change in life style and the reaction from the wider community...It gives one a chance to iron out the bumps in the road, and if necessary develop coping strategies....   

Metta Zenda

It's not so much a test, in my way of thinking, as that time when you figure out if you can take what the world has to give you. But let's be honest about the name. I don't see what I did was RLE so much as the moment I stopped trying to pass as a man and began to live authentically. All of life is "real life".

Don't think of it as a hurdle, but as an excuse to put your mask away and show the world who you are. If it should happen to make your therapist happy, bueno.

Now do I think you should do it before surgery? Yes. Some people cannot handle living without the mask. You should never run into anything that you can walk into with style.

N.J.

The old catch 22.

For myself RLE long long ago would have been easy mentally, I was a woman anyway however with a stupid beard, ugly male flat type body, voice a little too male/rough.

I tried my best but just no way for a normal RLE without help from HRT & time for changes.

Sometimes I just wished I'd been admitted/forced into a hospital/clinic for a total SRS/HRT for say 6 months then released into the world as a woman. That would have been great, so easy.

This RLE/book stuff makes me so mad! 20-30-40 years ago I tried my best for help to correct my gender. So many therapist & physicians brought out this TS book stuff. How can any one change their body without the correct HRT & then some SRS later.

Anyway opinion off my crest.

Quote from: Tristan on April 02, 2013, 11:38:44 PM
Oh and as far as rle for surgery goes I said the heck with it cuz I'm a girl and I like boys haha. So seeing as my exit is not ever going to be open for business I wanted that classic muff so I could enjoy boys. I was not about to let any dobtor tell me what I could do with my body and when. I was like I want it so I can have sex ASAP! Outta my way doctors

So blunt xD!  I am not an extremely sexual person.... but well.. i'll put it like the Dos Equis guy..


I don't always do it....
But when I do I want a vagina.

Kia Ora,

Real Life Experience is like waking from a dream-
for some this can be pleasant or nightmarish, so it would seem.

Having to get up and run life's gauntlet could fill ones heart with dread
some days you might not feel up to it, and want to stay in bed.

Or you could become excited and look forward in some way -
"Can I help you Maam/sir ? as the unknowing shop assistant makes your day.

Perhaps you're not so fortunate, and the nightmare has begun-
laughs, looks, and s->-bleeped-<-s, through this gauntlet you must run.

Bottom surgery is not going to change much, so don't think it will-
when out and about in public, what others see must fit the bill.

When starting RLE as ones true self, one must also grow tough skin-
by learning to keep the negative out and allowing the good stuff in.

I can only wish you all the best, as life's new path begins to unfold-
for it's the survival of the 'toughest', so, ask yourself "Do I fit the mould ?"

Metta Zenda

So when they say real life experience what all does that en-tale is that just go out in public wearing opposite gender clothes?

Quote from: misscheivous on April 05, 2013, 04:29:56 PM
So when they say real life experience what all does that en-tale is that just go out in public wearing opposite gender clothes?

Kia Ora Miss Cheivous,

RLE=living full time 24/7/365 in the gender role that you personally feel is who you truly are...In most cases this also means a name change and dressing in the style that most suit that gender...This is the somewhat legal/ mental health-professional version of what they expect...

However within this forum, it would seem it's "Different Strokes For Different Folks !" Some don't think it's necessary whilst others feel it's most important, especially since you are doing it in order to make sure you are comfortable in this role, prior to having what is considered irreversible life changing surgery...


Metta Zenda
 

Quote from: peky on April 05, 2013, 07:31:12 PM
"Do you fit the mould mold ?"

Kia Ora Peky,

I have no further use for the mold 'correct spelling' mould 

However it was a useful backup when I was suffering from the transgender condition, fortunately I didn't have to use it though...So if you want it, you can have it, it's as good as new and half the price...

Metta Zenda

Tristan .. Strong girl...

I just wear jeans and shirts for a while...
as i am going back to being a girl..
I am waiting for lasers to start showing the magic...
in 5 weeks doing my 5th full face pass, in the summer..
full body pass...
and continue on with that pah... if i get called a girl i do.. a boy i do..
BUT... lol always a but.. I want a full FFS package...

and i bet, all my girlie bits, that it wont matter what i wear after..
ill be taken as a girl...so is teh clothes that important? i mean dont wear
steel toed boots and plaid hunting jackets... but i bet a nice fitting dress pant and light shirt
after ffs and HRT you will always be a girl... especially if your personality is essentially feminine..

so i dont fret to much, i freak out over my laser hair removal the MOST LOLOL...
and which FFS surgeon to pick... and I suspect one day... just change my clothes and
BOOM girl...

little different path i am taking,,, after one previous transition... i know mistakes...when to do what...

In my view there is a good deal of value in doing RLE for ones own sake not just to satisfy a therapist. When you do RLE I think you tend to experience some unexpected situations which make you think about your situation and you also will face making decisions to slack off. One that comes to mind for me was when I had to do some work on my car over a period of several days and it would have been easier to slip into male mode. However I reminded myself that if I was genuine about my RLE then I needed to tackle the problem in female mode. That resulted in some wardrobe additions, loss of the wig ... so I had to present with short hair as I could not make a ponytail from my wigs, then some thought into some very basic makeup to reaffirm my feminine appearance. It's a good thing too because that's when my neighbour decided to drop in and saw me as a girl for the first time.

I also think RLE tends to bring you face to face with the inconvenience of living as a girl at times, so it's just good  real experience.