I don't know how I can express this rationally, so I'm just going to throw some paint at a canvas, and hope most of it sticks.  Just too many thoughts I need to vent 

Does anyone ever feel like they tried to....express them self through other girls?  I'm just now piecing together that the girls I had the largest crushes on are the ones I wanted to be the most/got the most jealous of.  I kind of feel like I saw them as the means to my personal expression, which might explain why I damn near took offense when they inevitably changed their style.  I know this sounds insane, but something just clicked in my head, and now, suddenly, everything in the world makes perfect sense to me.  It might also explain why I never cared to get to know these girls, or think about them intimately.  In RPGs, I would always roll a female character, and tell myself it was only to "stare at dat ass", or "experience a woman's perspective";  a few hours after the novelty would wear off, I would always find myself getting so much more immersed than I ever could with a male character.  In a way, I was using the customizable paper doll as a method of extending myself into a body with which I felt comfortable.

Maybe I'm just grasping for connections that aren't there, but usually, that gives me a noticeable sense of doubt in my gut.  This time, it's not there.  I feel "right" in calling myself a girl.

I hope at least some of that made sense 

Yes, I can relate.

During my teenage years I tried to convince myself that I liked girls, but I only really admired them and wanted to be like those girls I admired.  Consequently my only sexual fantasies involved me as a girl with a guy, and I never had any relationships with a girl.  I never realised this until after I had transitioned though.

My last girlfriend was so similar to me that people kept pointing out "wow, you two are the same person!".  I got really clingy and spent a lot of time wishing I could be her... I'd feel worse about it now if she hadn't ended up cheating on me.

Yup... been there, done that. Especially in high school, most of the girls that I thought I had crushes on, really it was just jealousy. And this is why, quite often, it was not the conventionally-attractive girls that I was obsessing over, it was the girls who were more like female versions of me, or at least what I wished I could be like... nerdy, but in a way that was still social, nice, open, and just a bit silly and spontaneous, but still with VERY nerdy fangirlish interests. I really was trying to live through them. And I would always be asking them weird questions while I was talking to them, trying to kind of gauge a "what's is like?" thing because I was so curious, and they always looked at me weird, so yeah, that definitely happened.

Funny you'd ask that, because I experienced that back in SE Asia during the Vietnam War when I was looking at a Playboy centerfold and someone asked me if I wouldn't like to "do" her, and I thought, "I'd rather be her!" I confessed to my drop-dead-gorgeous cis spouse that if had my wish it would be to become her. So your question isn't so goofy after all!

Oh good, so its not just me xD

Yeah, back in High School the only girls I had crushes on were essentially the ones that I wish I could be at that exact moment. I never really pursued any relationship though because something always felt off about it.

Yep, I had "crushes" on girls since elementary...and in high school I got sooo jealous of a girl that I constantly insulted her and made fun of her for being skinny...

She was soo androgynous and yet girly...I would kill to look like that!

Later on...I ended up apologizing to her a couple years later.

The worst part is that I'm Pansexual...so it's confusing as to if I actually liked those girls or if I was envious of them...in reality correlation /= causation...so probably both for me.

-Skye

Quote from: Horizon on April 15, 2013, 03:35:38 AM
In RPGs, I would always roll a female character, and tell myself it was only to "stare at dat ass", or "experience a woman's perspective";  a few hours after the novelty would wear off, I would always find myself getting so much more immersed than I ever could with a male character.  In a way, I was using the customizable paper doll as a method of extending myself into a body with which I felt comfortable.

The first half, I can't say that I have done that but I can easily see how someone could.

The second half I've quoted, I have deffinetly done (and do).

I play MMORPGs as a hobby, and my characters that I roll play on are always female. Since I can present as myself and don't have to worry about how I look or sound, I clearly come across as a woman when talking out of character or when in character. I feel pathetic admitting it, but my guild in The Old Republic at the moment is the one place that I can be me, and not have to appologize for it. It's honestly become something of a copeing mechenisim for me while I figure out how to work up the nerve to talk to my wife, start seeing a therapist, and so on.

Some of the people in my guild even know about my transexuality because I had a bit of a nervous break down one day and told them. They've been incredibly supportive, even if they do occasonaly ask an awkward question now and then.

Sounds perfectly normal to me... in fact, i'd be surprised if you did _not_ feel this way. 

I feel the same.  Sexual orientation is probably not relevant.  I do as you do, but am fiercely attracted to women.  Although, being a fiery redhead i tend to be attracted to brunettes and role model fair-haired women. 

Yes, online role modeling is wonderful... i am careful to not spend _too_ much time at it...  it means so much to me, to be accepted as a woman, by women.  Funny that, my online gaggle say they can 'always tell' when a guy role models himself in drag, for whatever nefarious purpose... listen to a powder-room conversation perhaps? 

I surmised that it's use of language that sets men apart instantly... and then i noticed that i could tell, too, when looking at the words that they use.

Quote from: Horizon on April 15, 2013, 03:35:38 AM
...feel like I saw them as the means to my personal expression, which might explain why I damn near took offense when they inevitably changed their style.  ...  It might also explain why I never cared to get to know these girls, or think about them intimately. 

In RPGs, I would always roll a female character...  In a way, I was using the customizable paper doll as a method of extending myself into a body with which I felt comfortable.

Maybe I'm just grasping for connections that aren't there, but usually, that gives me a noticeable sense of doubt in my gut.  This time, it's not there.  I feel "right" in calling myself a girl.

I personally think that's perfectly normal.  I believe the phrase is "living vicariously" through someone else, and its not just trans people who do that, think of all the dads who push their sons to play football, or moms who push their daughters to be the best in pagents. 

I devour books about women on their own. Movies as well. Before this thread I didn't realize why, but I think it filled a need in me for a female experience I couldn't get from my own life.

Yep!  I lived vicariously through my girlfriends.

Quote from: AusBelle on April 15, 2013, 05:45:36 AM
Yes, I can relate.

During my teenage years I tried to convince myself that I liked girls, but I only really admired them and wanted to be like those girls I admired.  Consequently my only sexual fantasies involved me as a girl with a guy, and I never had any relationships with a girl.  I never realised this until after I had transitioned though.

That kinda sums up what I was like too lol.

Also in regards to the games, I'd always play a female character too and tell everyone on the game I was female in real life (This probably started around 12 or so when I got my first computer)

Yeah i did that when i was younger, to the point even that people said i have a certain type.

Quote from: SarahDoll1987 on April 17, 2013, 08:26:09 PM
That kinda sums up what I was like too lol.

Also in regards to the games, I'd always play a female character too and tell everyone on the game I was female in real life (This probably started around 12 or so when I got my first computer)

Ha, I would've done that but when I grew up there were no computer role playing games.  I got a Commodore 64 computer when I was 18....  sprites and 16 colours and all the old school stuff.  No internet either. 

Now that I look back, I feel the same way. I've basically given up trying to date females despite my attraction to them. Now, I mostly see what I wish I could become. I've tried to engage in friendly conversation, not even remotely close to asking them out, and one of two scenarios occurs every time. One, I just get ignored or two, I realize that they're taken. People have tried to set me up with dates before, but each one is worse than the last. So now I don't care. Sorry, for the rant.

As far as games are concerned, if given the choice, I will always choose a female character over a male one. At first I thought if I was going to be staring at a character for X amount of hours, I'll choose something that's aesthetically pleasing. But now I realize that the entire time, I was projecting sub-consciously my inner desire to be female thru the game not seeing the reality until many, many years later. And in one online RPG, someone called me a princess, I smiled and thought to myself, "I wish", not telling them the truth.

Quote from: karla.allen on April 16, 2013, 05:35:25 AM
Sounds perfectly normal to me... in fact, i'd be surprised if
you did _not_ feel this way. 

That's a strong statement to make, isn't it? LOLLLLLLL!

Quotebut am fiercely attracted to women.

Why, of course you are!

QuoteI surmised that it's use of language that sets men apart instantly... and then i noticed that i could tell, too, when looking at the words that they use.

Ehm, yes.

But anyway....I've never 'expressed myself' through girls or women AND I'm into masculine men only...which seems to be somewhat 'abnormal' in the overwhelming lesbian MTF community.

But what I've found out about 'straight' men/Tlovers is that they're actually trying to express themselves through pre op MTF because they dream/fantasise about being a woman and are suffering from castration anxiety at the very same time.

Quote from: Dahlia on April 24, 2013, 04:52:16 AM
But what I've found out about 'straight' men/Tlovers is that they're actually trying to express themselves through pre op MTF because they dream/fantasise about being a woman and are suffering from castration anxiety at the very same time.

I think a big reason some men prefer trans women over cis women is that they think that trans women will be better able to understand them on an emotional level. But the catch is with guys like this that aren't just after sex and want a real relationship with them is that you have to be very passable. It sucks for me but that's how it is.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on April 25, 2013, 05:13:05 PM
Humm, I can't say I really understand this, basically why would you be attracted to a girl if you also wanted her life or things she had?  I don't really understand why one thing would become the other. 

Isn't that kind of like, sexualizing (some version/image of) your SELF? Idk.

I'm not trying to say there is something wrong with liking girls but, if that is what you like, I think you should just accept that it is your preference rather than analyzing it too much... cause to be honest it sounds like making excuses for the way you feel and making excuses makes you seem uncomfortable with yourself.

Not all trans women are attracted to cis males. Many are repulsed by cis males from having been subjected to living in a male role and having to submit to the social expectations of a cis male, and it is natural to be drawn to females and feminine things and eventually sharing life with a feminine partner. This isn't that difficult to understand so those of us attracted to other women needn't have to justify ourselves any more than we would expect another trans woman to justify her attraction for men.

Wow!  Thank you all so much for your experiences!!!  I'm surprised so many people even understood what I was saying to begin with 

QuoteIsn't that kind of like, sexualizing (some version/image of) your SELF? Idk.

For that to be true, I would have to be sexualizing someone to begin with.  If I've learned anything over the past few months, it's that the line between desire and jealousy can be very fine.