I ran for UPS three peaks running and despite being #1 on record each day (oh yes, I have it on paper) I still didn't get the permanent insider position. I'd actually been pulled into the management office at the end of my first run and guaranteed that job, shook hands and everything, but then next year rolled around... and the next... and then they didn't call for the fourth peak or the fifth (put in my applications anyway but nothing), this last peak they even went so far as to move orientation out of that hub to another hub in a different city JUST to avoid me (I am not kidding, they'd never done that before and it was a last minute thing because they'd had the interviews there which I did get too). All for no other reason than the fact they suspected me of being gay and it would be a liability and blah blah blah, or so that got back to me from the grapevine (well, they're way off the mark on that one aren't they? But apparently that reservation doesn't hold true to management personnel, because the route coordinator was flaming... but yeah). I mean I literally worked so hard for them that all I could do at the end of the day was sleep and sleep and sleep then do it again. Destroyed my back and knees for them. Bled for it. And that's what I got for my efforts: nothing. Not even usable work-experience, apparently.

You know what, that wasn't the only incident. I'd applied for the same position I'd been told I'd be called back to start in the previous year, and I accidentally got sent the email from the HR manager (to the seasonal coordinator manager) saying he didn't "want to hire [her] with all those new eyes watching". Probably should have taken action on that but, foolish me, I thought I still stood a chance some other time. Wrong.

Then in December of 2011 the manager of the Vons down the street that me and my mom have been going to together since I was 12 actually chased US down to ask if I was still looking for work. It was an unusually cold morning the day of the interview so I decided to wear my thicker flannel (dark green and black, all I had) shirt under my thin and only jacket at the time (we're not well off and my wardrobe is seriously lacking so I don't have fancy 'wow-factor' stuff for these situations, but which are business-casual stuff). Well, come to find out from a checker my mom's friendly with, she said I didn't get it because of my clothes......... I was wearing exactly the same black slacks and black tennis shoes that everyone who works there wears, barring their tan Oxford (uniform, you know – so my clothes really shouldn't have had piss-all to do with it). And, instead, they hired some kid with EXTREMELY stretched our earlobes! I mean, you can see straight through them. Oh, and then some really "I own the place" manager's daughter (which I know because she was practically yelling it out at the top of her lungs while strutting around the isles). So that was the final straw for me.

I pretty much have given up after five years of this crap. I've put thousands of applications out there, everywhere within 50 miles, I've also physically gone around to everywhere I could think of as well and all I'm told is "there's the door" or else "online only, here's the kiosk". I just can't catch a break, even if I destroy myself trying. Really sucks.

My grandmother swears it's not just because of my trans situation, but also because I'm a bit fat (and I mean only a bit, I'm far from huge and unhealthy looking - not that I personally think that should really matter either but you know). She seems to be laboring under the delusion that becoming a stick-figure will help. I say she's wrong. Either way, it's been extremely difficult for me to lose any fat the conventional ways. It really is because of endocrine and metabolic disorder in my case. Even when I was eating as healthy as possible, I still couldn't lose anything (hell, not even when I was pretty sick over my condition and couldn't eat I STILL couldn't lose anything. It's pretty bad when you're gaining weight while completely fasting for two days!). That's changing on T but even then, I still will never be that 'sexy' anorexic-thin kind of shape she seems to think will get me a job, despite my tans thing. Riiiiiiiiiight.

I'm just totally screwed, though. And I thought the big-brown shark tank on my resume thee consistent Peaks running (80% don't even make it the first week in our area) would help me at LEAST get a little part time "any moron could do this" job but I guess being trans screwed that up. Don't know what else to do anymore.

Short of showing up in drag... well, I can't do it. I don't even know the first thing about being feminine. I couldn't play it up to save my very life. I'm just absolutely positively not feminine at all. I don't even have any ingrained feminine 'tells' at all either so I *really* couldn't do it even long enough to get through an interview and to get hired. Ugh.


Anyway, yes... discrimination is definitely around in droves, still. And it is only going to be worse the farther and longer this depression (because I say hogwash to 'recession') goes. We're just about surpassing the 1920's conditions here with this and as such, all the employers want the very, very, very cream of the absolute top of the crop. Employer's market conditions, not employee's now and that's not going to change any time in the foreseeable future. So getting a job while being trans, and not having documents reflecting everything as the same (gendermaker, name etc.) will be like hitting the lottery and hitting it big. Or so that's my experience, because it sure isn't happening for me.

'Equal-opportunity' need not and does not apply anymore. I know that much.

Magnus, have you tried for jobs with the gov't, like bus driver? Or for non-profits, with paratransit services? As a person with driving experience you'd be needed, and often whoever is providing paratransit service is hard up for good people who are not only good drivers, but honestly care for the passengers...

Gov't job hiring practices are typically MUCH more open-minded, unless you're trying to get hired in Mayberry RFD...

I can honestly say I haven't tried for government work. I've always heard you need to know someone to get you into it. But I wasn't driving the truck, just riding shotgun and doing 90% of all the actual delivery work. Although my driving record is spotless without even a ticket so perhaps I could look for truck driving or something but honestly, I don't think that would be good for my health being behind the wheel all day and night without exercise and living on fast food etc. I'm not counting it out, but I'd rather try to find something that allows me to live a healthy lifestyle if at all possible first.

And no job has been beneath me. I've applied to all sorts. But then I am in an area that has been one of the most hardest-hit. SoCal is truly half-way down the drain. We have 0% job growth, we're only losing them. It's just vicious here. I wanted to go to Texas because there actually is some work out there but I can't do that either on account of not being able to save up some money for such a risky venture. And I'd likely not be able to find a way to get my T which is not just for my trans thing, but my health too. So... really, I'm just stuck and out of ideas.

Have you registered at any temp agencies or contingent places? Sometimes they can help you get a foot in the door for something that might develop into full time later on.

My mom did that recently, she got nowhere with any of them and has decades more office experience than I do. Including inventory control and billing. I don't think I'd stand a chance if she couldn't.

I'm not ruling it out but I feel sure it would be a huge waste of time for both myself and them. I have zero office experience and they want that above all else.

Actually, I feel that is the core of the problem. I don't have much experience other than seasonal UPS stuff (which used to mean something). Yet, there is NOWHERE that will give you it, that initial leg up, to then later on go and get the jobs that want/require it. So it's just a dirty, vicious cycle of that. And then again, there's the "overqualified" camp from the college route. You just can't win right now.

Also, if I do get employment that only just barely covers my gas expense then I lose my T and if I lose my T, I get sick again (as well as my transition stopping dead). So that's another layer of it. If I get a job it can't be for $7/hr at 40 miles each way. You know? Just... argh. 

I really DO want to work. I just can't find anything reasonable (reasonable would include minimum wage around the neighborhood too but not way out somewhere that will cost a fortune in gas and put me in the hole as if I weren't even working at all).

I kind of want to think it this isn't necessarily you being transgender thats holding you back at work. Employment in certain areas is bad enough that employers are holding back from hiring and keeping employees depending on projections with how their execs think the economy will be going in the future. Allot of that is still pretty negative even though were hearing on the news "Unemployment is getting better". One example orders for durable US goods had decreased quite a bit. The housing market is showing improvement, but still its mostly investors (Driving up prices working people can't afford right now because wages are still really bad).

I could speculate that the shipping industry is hurting with the recent laws being passed to tax online sales like local sales and consumers are going back to just buying local products. I want to say hang in there.

I just graduated college with a business degree and had taken a short break from working (been working since high school) and so far im having trouble even finding minimum wage (thats part-time and no benefits) work. Even with two degrees and over 3 years experience in retail im getting turned by stores like Wal-Mart for entry level cashier postions. The fact is they are getting thousands or applications for these positons.

I think eventually the economy will come back, most of this stuff goes in waves. Were just still in a bust/recovery mode (hopefully) .



Note: this only goes to 2008


Im having similar issues to allot of people here and not being able to find work, and im not even "out", look completely male. So I can say for sure that im not being effected by discrimination.

Honestly I think its just the economy. Were gonna have to wait it out or make your own jobs if you want good work.

It's tough. I just started E a month ago (graduation gift to myself), and I've had to stop because I can't afford it. I can't even really afford housing or food ether. Getting a minimum wage / part-time job won't really help with that ether, and so far I'm having trouble getting that. I know it feels hopeless right now. I feel like im going to be stuck and grow old as a guy.

It's very hard to get a job these days... I am lucky to have one but i know a lot of people who have no job and no money and they are struggling really hard. There were times in my life when i was jobless for very long periods of time - 5 months or even a year.

I live in Europe and the situation here is very bad, in some countries it's worse than in the others. Some countries have unemployment rate as high as 20-25%. And even if you are lucky enough to get a job it's very likely you will be stuck with a minimum wage.

I am not "out" so i have never been discriminated because of being transgendered but i am absolutely terrified about the whole idea of being male full time cos i KNOW i will have very big social problems. It will be very hard for me to get a new job, to find friends, etc. People here aren't tolerant or liberal enough. And T isn't cheap as you know so i was thinking what if i go on T and then end up jobless for a long time and won't be able to afford T anymore - what will i do then?..

I got my job, then had a good amount of drama, but I got my new job while trans.  And let me be clear, I do not pass.  They knew even though I did not explicitly out myself. 

What I can't keep myself from thinking is, one reason unemployment is so high in the community is because of the side effects that being trans can cause.  Lack of ability to trust, anger/fear from being closeted, coming across as judgmental by having a base assumption that people are going to discriminate against us.  Then there is the outright, yet understandable though perhaps not so well by a cisgendered person, debilitation some of us have from having the wrong genitalia which is one of the many ways being trans can lead to depression.  Taken together, if those interviewing you can't say "Yes" to the question of "Do I want to spend eight+ hours a day five days a week with this person?" you're in for a tougher climb.

Then there is the other side with being full-time.  If you're not confident in your new role, that could be misinterpreted by your interviewer as you're not confident in your ability.  Oh and if you at all come off like you're a victim, or you indicate that you yourself view being trans as something that makes you a second class citizen, that can be a turn off too.  On that latter sin, on my job hunt a year ago I'm sooooooooo guilty.

There's lots of reasons why unemployment in the trans community is so high.  Sure, plain discrimination that we're trans is without question one.  But I can't stop believing that there are other things we do / have happen to us that makes it harder on ourselves.  Just in liberal places, in conservative religious places, I've found the cisgendered community too cool on the whole for me to believe otherwise.  If I'm right then the good news is, while we can't stop being trans, many of these other things are totally addressable so there's hope we can turn our chances around!

Am I making any sense to anyone else at all?

Quote from: Misato on April 27, 2013, 04:30:57 PM

Oh and if you at all come off like you're a victim, or you indicate that you yourself view being trans as something that makes you a second class citizen, that can be a turn off too.  On that latter sin, on my job hunt a year ago I'm sooooooooo guilty.

I would like to comment on being a "second class" citizen. I know some people who really think that transsexuals are mentally ill. I know it sounds very rude but that's the way things are. I personally know a few people who think this way about us. They don't know that i am trans cos i am not officially "out" but when i tried speaking to them about transsexuals that's what they told me. So naturally they really believe we should be treated as a second class citizens because we are sick and we can't work/study the same way "healthy" people can.

Hm... I wonder what would happen if i came out... They know me as a very interesting person with a great sense of humor and a responsible worker, and i seem absolutely normal inside and out. What would they think? Would they start treating me differently? The only thing i know for sure is that  they would be completely shocked. 

Quote from: dean1229 on April 28, 2013, 04:21:01 AM
I would like to comment on being a "second class" citizen. I know some people who really think that transsexuals are mentally ill. I know it sounds very rude but that's the way things are.

As I acknowledged with:

Quote from: Misato on April 27, 2013, 04:30:57 PM
Sure, plain discrimination that we're trans is without question one.

Two jobs ago there was a story going round the workplace where one of my co-workers met a woman and when they said hi, the woman replied in a very deep voice, outing herself as trans.  This was of course a big joke.  It was years later before I came out and I recently had lunch with them.  No problems at all.

People can shoot their mouths off without thinking, aping bad jokes they see on TV or in the case of guys "protecting" their manhood.  When things get real, sometimes at least, the tune changes and they end up being super cool.  I mean, if my farmer uncle can find out about me and say, "you're shi**ing me!  Well, as long as she's happy" there is hope for anyone.

Quote from: Misato on April 28, 2013, 07:51:00 AM

People can shoot their mouths off without thinking, aping bad jokes they see on TV or in the case of guys "protecting" their manhood.  When things get real, sometimes at least, the tune changes and they end up being super cool.  I mean, if my farmer uncle can find out about me and say, "you're shi**ing me!  Well, as long as she's happy" there is hope for anyone.

You are so right, and what stands out about you is attitude no-one passes, maybe they think they do, but genetic females in the workplace pick up on trans people instantly, but so what? You have the right attitude and that is where the pass comes in, they give you a pass on attitude.

Quote from: Shantel on April 28, 2013, 08:12:39 AM
You are so right, and what stands out about you is attitude no-one passes, maybe they think they do, but genetic females in the workplace pick up on trans people instantly, but so what? You have the right attitude and that is where the pass comes in, they give you a pass on attitude.

I don't know what other people think about who passes and who doesn't.  To be clear, I'm pretty sure some do. I just know I don't pass cause I keep getting misgendered even while wearing skirts and form fitting blouses that don't hide my boobs.

The attitude of accepting "I don't pass" helps me.  Talking about it, I hope, may help someone else find happiness.

Looking for work is hard enough as it is.  I had the last two places I applied for not call me back, but I'm not sure why.  Sometimes I do think it has something to do with me not looking female enough or looking "lesbian", which for anyone who knows enough lesbians and straight people you will realize that there are both very feminine looking lesbians and very masculine looking straight women out there. I am talking about my current state as pre-transition but as a crossdresser. But I also have anxiety problems. Sometimes I think got turned down for anxiety, other times because of unspoken gender or sexuality reasons and maybe other times for other reasons. Not knowing sucks.  Now I got hired somewhere but I wore women's clothes to an interview because I didn't have any "fancy" enough men's clothing I could wear and I thought wearing the women's clothing would make me more likely to get hired than if I wore my usual shorts and a T-shirt. Yeah, well that's kind of a mistake because now I am in the position where I'm sure I will want to wear what I usually wear, men's clothes, to work and I am thinking of transitioning as well. The company I will work for, I believe, has a tolerant attitude towards gays at least but I'm not 100% sure of how they will act if I just go in there wearing guy's clothes every day. They said it's a casual dress code as well. I should be fine. I really hope I am fine here because I know there is a possibility that they would give me a hard time. After being out a job for a year it is good to be able to work again, so I am hoping I don't have trouble because of possible discrimination.  The last job actually helped push me to the realization of who I am in more ways than one, but the biggest being I had to dress in women's clothing, they wouldn't allow me to wear the men's suit or men's clothing to work I don't think. It was draining for me to wear feminine clothing for such a long time and those mary jane shoes, I felt so out of place in them! But I did it, and otherwise the job had some positive aspects to it, if I could disassociate from what I was wearing. Anyway, it was a good learning experience and probably necessary because I was just about as closeted as possible on the trans train at that time. Well, temp agencies can help with finding a job, I will second what the other poster said there. I actually got one of my favorite jobs, security, from a case manager.  Having a spotty record is not helpful, and it is not for a lack of trying always. Or even discrimination. I wish you luck. It might be a good idea to do something like compile a list of places hiring that have a reputation for being non-discriminatory, if you can find out which ones they might be, and apply for those place(s) first?

Target is a good place to apply.  They are very lgbt friendly.

Quote from: Shantel on April 28, 2013, 08:12:39 AM
You are so right, and what stands out about you is attitude no-one passes, maybe they think they do, but genetic females in the workplace pick up on trans people instantly, but so what? You have the right attitude and that is where the pass comes in, they give you a pass on attitude.

Correct! I think a tiny minority do, but these are girls who transitioned as children. And even most of them don't. Sadly a lot of trans women have the delusional male ego which allows them to think they pass. I don't have that male quality though i have others(like a tendancy to be a problem solver, straight talker, impatience, the list goes on...). I'm very glad I don't have the unstoppable ego male trait because it turns genetic women straight off. but then again the trans with that male quality probably don't notice so perhaps ignorance is bliss.

Good thread, lots of good info.

Lucia,