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Attention to Details and the Perception of Ourselves (Long Post Warning!)

Started by MaidofOrleans, May 05, 2013, 01:25:08 PM

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MaidofOrleans

This post is going to be kind of long but sometimes I get these urges to spill my mind onto paper (or in this case digital paper)

I had what one would call an epiphany over the past week which started with my looking into getting FFS for what I considered to be a very masculine eye sore on my face. Honestly I never even noticed the brow bossing along the center of my brow line until someone on these very forums brought it up after I posted a before and after picture. It's not their fault or anything but since that point I became fixated on that thing, that very thing which I never even knew existed became a target of many hours of worry and obsession.

As trans women we are trained like cis women to pick out our imperfections. We are especially trained to pick out our masculine imperfections. The broad nose, the bossed brow, the all too squared jaw line or the not so round hairline become targets of fear and obsession far beyond what they deserve. We obsess and we obsess yet every day many of us go out and about and get viewed simply as female. People tell us we are pretty and passable yet we question how they could be so blind as to not see the male we see when we look at ourselves.

As I obsessed about my brow line I began to pick out other issues. Things I considered minor or unnoticeable became frightening and ugly. Despite what others told me I still saw the man staring back at me with all his ugly male features. I would look at every day women and focus on the feminine aspects of their face and bodies and compare them to the masculine parts of mine. It made me feel like an ugly freak that would never pass or be looked at as female. I figured even the hormones weren't changing anything because when I asked people at work if they saw a difference they just shook their head and said "just your longer hair."

I went to my parents who I trust for their opinions and told them I was thinking of getting surgery to correct these issues I was so focused on fixing. I looked at them puzzled when they asked me what masculine features I had because they saw a very feminine face. My dad said when he saw me presenting female he thought I looked like any other girl. I started to point out the things that bothered me and they would say that's hardly even noticeable or the plenty of women had that. My mom started to get upset and told me that i'm just playing into the same bs imperfection nitpicking that has plagued women for years and has been used as a tool for profiting off us. My dad said that whenever he feels a part of him is ugly he just thinks "did I ever look at other people and notice that before?" "did I even care?

We are our own worst critics. I began to realize that before I began transition I never looked at these silly things on a woman. I saw a woman and she was a woman because that's how she presented herself. These was no question in my mind because I wasn't looking for these "masculine imperfections" I was looking at her in the whole as what she was, a female. The fact of the matter is that our "pass ability" is not based around having a slighting smaller nose or less curved jaw but simply our confidence and how we present ourselves as women. I we have no doubt in ourselves what reason do others have to doubt us?

I found a good analogy in my past experiences which may seem rather odd but stick with me. I use to be really active in the Star Wars costuming community. I have costumes of various characters from stormtrooper to sand person.

This is my at Legoland California doing an event for Star Wars days. I'm on the left



and at barns and noble waiting for a film opening. (i'm the one reading)



These were what we would consider to be high quality movie style replica costumes. We had to make them ourselves within the community from scratch using photos from the films and props. We are so trained to know every difference in the props and costumes that we can nitpick every wrong detail or difference between our costumes and the film costumes and even the differences, deformities and screw up on the movie costumes themselves. I watched the movies a thousand times growing up and there were things about the costumes I never knew about until shown them specifically by other costumers.



bet you didn't notice all these imperfections and quick fixes when you watched the films. Now that you know where they are go find them and they will be eye sores.

bet you didn't know the basic stormtrooper costume was different in all three original fims.

When we went to conventions and events I would be dumbfounded when people could not notice differences between the hand made stormtrooper costumes. To me I saw one with the wrong color stripes or the wrong lenses or a helmet shaped the wrong way but to the "civilian" onlookers and even dire hard fans were were all stormtroopers and looked the same.

They didn't notice these things because they were untrained eyes that simply saw stormroopers, not hand made costumes. Just like the average person looks at us and see's a woman.

I went back and decided to add more questions to my coming out spiel to my coworkers.

Me: "Have you noticed anything different about me in the past few months?"
Her: "Not really just longer hair"
Me: "Really anything else?"
Her: *Pauses to look at me for a second*
Her: "Well your skin looks softer."
Me: "What about my complete lack of facial hair?"
Her: "Oh well I guess I never really payed attention to those things"
Me: *Hold up an old picture of myself pre-transition*
Her: "Who the hell is that? Is that you? Did you look like that when you worked here?"

The point is that because I was presenting and acting male I was simply male in her eyes despite the feminine features I had developed through HRT. Combined with seeing me on a daily basis the changes never even occurred to her. I will not be surprised if when I go full time she actually notices the female that I am.

This is me 7 months ago my first day on hormones.



This is me recently.



I don't see much change but what do you see? What do they see?

I realize most of you will read this and just brush it aside or not let it sway your feelings. I realize some of us are blessed with more female features than male and that some of us have a harder time being taken for female than others. I hope though that some of you will read this and see that others see you differently that your trained eyes see you. That you are not defined by your nose or your jaw but by yourself as a whole.

Anyways....that's all..  :P
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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suzifrommd

All I can say is that every time I see your avatar picture, I think "why can't I look pretty like her?"

I agree with everything you say.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Tristan

Your very right we are our own worse critics. Some really need ffs but others don't bag get it just to feel better and end up overdoing it. I know my ffs surgeon talked about this and was like," young lady you only need X and x surgery so I do this for you to fix your face. I no over due and make you look freakish ."  But once again we are out own worse critics. I wear contacts to hide my natural eye colors because its a dead give away that I'm mixed ( I'm starting to actually like that fact) but all woman do seem to zone in on these kinda things
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ZoeM

'Tis true, MaidOfOrleans. And we need to keep reminding ourselves of that truth. Thanks for posting. :)


By the way - is your name Joan? :D
Don't lose who you are along the path to who you want to be.








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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: ZoeM on May 05, 2013, 02:12:08 PM
'Tis true, MaidOfOrleans. And we need to keep reminding ourselves of that truth. Thanks for posting. :)


By the way - is your name Joan? :D

No Joan never really appealed to me. Plus it's too much like my male name  :P
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Olivia-Anne

I absolutley agree with everything you said. I too had a similar experience with a good friend of mine. It was very similar to the one you had with your parents. I think it takes that kind of positive re-enforcement you got from your parents to overcome the nitpicking spiral of doom. Some days for me, I start the spiral again and have to remind myself that I am being hypercritical. I hope more girls have that same enlightning experience that you and I have had. On a similar note, I found that alot of the time, I would project that same sort of mentality on to people that post pictures on the passing threads. I can't tell you how many times I would write this long hypercritical post and delete it after I re-read it. Alot of girls want to have a critique that is to that extent. But, if I were to give them what they are asking for, I think that it would be feeding that unhealthy way of looking at themselves. Bravo to you Maid for realising this as well!

<3 Liv
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Donna Elvira

Hi,
Like Suzi, I also thought you looked very pretty in your avatar photo and I assume that this is represents how you look when presenting female. If that is the case and you have no problem passing , that answers at least part of your question  doesn't it?

Otherwise, I agree with you entirely, up to a point, people see what they expect to see and if they have know you as a male for a long time they will continue to see you male long after third parties who don't know you would clock you as a woman.  This is  very much my own case right now and has lead to some very comical situations where I have been called Madame by third parties in front of colleagues who still know me as a man. I just laugh when this occurs and everyone else is left scratching their head.. :)

If you are not being clocked female most of the time it's a completely different story but lot's of things can account for that other than face, from voice to the way you walk, your gestures etc..

As I had a very masculine face I really did obsess about it and still do a bit. Having come a very  long way, I guess I now dream of actually going from passable to reasonably pretty and believe  that this is probably the case for a lot of us.

Regarding your face as it is now , the photos you posted today don't really tell us very much except that your cheeks have definitely filled out quite a bit.  For a MtF, HRT has no impact on bone structure so if you have significant brow bossing, a very narrow angle between brow and nose, a big heavy nose etc..these are things you might like to look at, at minumum for your own pleasure.

Your lower face actually looks very neat but if you want serious feedback the rules are simple: photos from straight in front, right profile, left profile, right oblique, left oblique all taken with good light, no make-up and from at least 3 meters to avoid the sort of distorsion you get with close up shots.

A great place to go for honest feedback on facial features from a group of pretty knowledgeable people is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ffs-support/ but to get back to the start, you really do look very good on your avatar photo so if you are comfortable with the way you are, it would probably be better to avoid it.
Bises
Donna
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Ltl89

Awesome post.  You certainly don't need FFS.  If your pictures are anything to go by, you pass very well.

Also, thank you for this post.  I've been having a rough patch and crying a bit this weekend because of my lack of progress.  Seeing things like this gives me a lot of hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel.  Thank you for sharing.
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kelly_aus

We are our own worst enemies as far as our appearance is concerned.

I look in the mirror and see essentially the same face looking back at me as I always have - a mans face. But then, it was a mans face for 34 years, until I accepted what I'd known about myself all along. Other people, however, don't see me as I do. They look at me, see my body language, see my clothes, see my mannerisms and they see a woman. Even though I'm aware of this, it still doesn't make it any easier.
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Theo

Thank you very much for the post. :)

I actually ended up talking to my mother about the same topic a bit earlier, and she very much concurred with the idea of me being hypercritical of my own appearance. As for most, I would assume, the facial structure (and, in my case, hairline) is the main pet peeve. I find that the more knowledgeable I become, the more points I find to criticise about my own looks. It almost becomes a vicious circle of spotting items and immediately thinking "my gosh, I never noticed that before – what ELSE did I miss?!?!"  ::)

We tend to fall for a particular fallacy, one that the statistician Peter Donnelly described during a TED talk, albeit in a slightly different context (his example was a murder court case...): basically we end up assuming that everyone is out to clock us, i.e. everyone is an expert at gender markers and only "permits" us to remain a woman if we hit a certain minimum number of them. The reality is that usually people will assume that we are a woman, and only if we start to push too many details out of kilter will they even start feeling that something might be off, but very rarely will they immediately start questioning our gender – I guess that's one of the few upsides of the deeply ingrained gender binary in our society.  :-\
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ZoeM

Quote from: Theo on May 05, 2013, 05:31:32 PM
Thank you very much for the post. :)

I actually ended up talking to my mother about the same topic a bit earlier, and she very much concurred with the idea of me being hypercritical of my own appearance. As for most, I would assume, the facial structure (and, in my case, hairline) is the main pet peeve. I find that the more knowledgeable I become, the more points I find to criticise about my own looks. It almost becomes a vicious circle of spotting items and immediately thinking "my gosh, I never noticed that before – what ELSE did I miss?!?!"  ::)

We tend to fall for a particular fallacy, one that the statistician Peter Donnelly described during a TED talk, albeit in a slightly different context (his example was a murder court case...): basically we end up assuming that everyone is out to clock us, i.e. everyone is an expert at gender markers and only "permits" us to remain a woman if we hit a certain minimum number of them. The reality is that usually people will assume that we are a woman, and only if we start to push too many details out of kilter will they even start feeling that something might be off, but very rarely will they immediately start questioning our gender – I guess that's one of the few upsides of the deeply ingrained gender binary in our society.  :-\

On the other hand, once we start seeing gender markers, we begin clocking everybody, including dozens of cisfolks. And we never quite see the unassuming truth of others' identity the same way again.
Don't lose who you are along the path to who you want to be.








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MaidofOrleans

There is a cis girl I work with who is very beautiful who has more brow bossing than I do! I never even noticed it till I started focusing on my own  ::)
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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JennX

"If you want the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain."
-Dolly Parton
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MaidofOrleans

"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Rachel

You are very pretty, without question. One thing I noticed most, your smile.
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
  • skype:Rachel?call
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MaidofOrleans

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on May 06, 2013, 08:17:16 PM
You are very pretty, without question. One thing I noticed most, your smile.

Awwww thanks  :D

Yes, my smile seems to be popular everywhere I go.  ;D
"For transpeople, using the right pronoun is NOT simply a 'political correctness' issue. It's core to the entire struggle transpeople go through. Using the wrong pronoun means 'I don't recognize you as who you are.' It means 'I think you're confused, delusional, or mentally I'll.'. It means 'you're not important enough for me to acknowledge your struggle.'"
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Rachel85

Long post? Nah! It was definitely worth the read! :p hahahah
After a week of hell brought on by a close friends wedding (don't even go there! Worst idea EVER going to a wedding in complete boy mode, let alone having two in the last month...) and all the horror and self-doubt brought on by the inherent prettiness of everyone but me there, it is so nice to read such a great post.
Thank you, you really made my day. :)
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Carlita

I'm way late on this, but if there was a 'Like' button, then I would have pressed it for the OP. Several times. A great point, really well made!

But sweetie, don't you think it's about time you started sewing a Princess Leia costume?  :)
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