I'd officially been full time 7 months before my SRS.

There are a handful of reasons why that happened. First, I got approved early by my therapist who was biased in my favour because I blended in so seamlessly and quickly and because I had a pretty comprehensive support structure. I.e. I've never been clocked, I had no difficulty adjusting, and I lost 0% of the people in my life. Yes, I'm aware of how obscenely privileged that makes me. It also placed me in a somewhat unusual situation.

And then I was planning to move to cities, and it just made far more sense to do the surgery, recover with my family to help me and then move, rather than having to recover in a new place. And being pre-op was incredibly stressful. The dysphoria was kicking my ass and I was impatient to get rid of it and get on with my life. I felt like I'd waited far too long already. That and there was no way back for me. Beyond the fact that I lost the ability to pass as a boy after 4 months of HRT, and then I'd had facial surgery on top... I was suicidal pre-transition. It was literally transition or die trying for me, so I had nothing much to lose.

I've now been presenting myself to the world as Sarah for 21 months. I have no regrets. I figure the year of RLE is probably useful for some people. My objection is that it tends to be applied regardless of the situation of the person involved.

Like Sarah, I've got a great support structure, have had no difficulty adjusting and lost 0% of the people in my life. My therapist is open to the idea of writing my SRS letter any time I want it.

However, I seem to have taken a slightly different path to most. I came out to my closest friends and family and pretty much straight away started to change my presentation. My therapist has never seen me in 'boy mode' and at this point never will. I did dress as a guy for work for a while after that, but almost right from the time I came out, I've presented as a woman - even before hormones.

I don't know how long to consider myself as having been full-time, as I seem to have blurred the lines on that one. I do think the concept of RLE prior to surgery is a good one, as it will hopefully weed out anyone who is not ready/doesn't require surgery/isn't really trans etc. I do think the length of time should be negotiable between you and your therapist though.

I'm currently going full time and it's not always easy. I still have doubts but for the moment I'm happy and just hope things get easier. Inside I think I'm a confident girl but on the outside I don't always feel that way sadly...

One thing I notice is walking down the street I could happily be myself, relaxed and calm. I can't pass very well as I'm 6'3 - although my body is quite femanine shaped, so that's good. Just having the courage to go full time with no hormones is a big thing for me, still awaiting my appointment at the gender clinic so that could be a while.

I think it is important though, most of the reactions I got the other day weren't anything terrible - I'd really hate it if someone in the street started looking at me funny or shouted abuse... I suppose I'll have to get thicker skinned!

There are alot of masculine looking CIS women out there so as long as you take care of your "package" and can hide the adams apple most people wouldn't say anything. I haven't went out in a dress yet but I have with make up, stuffed bra, pantyhose under jeans, women's tshirt and high heels on. didn't notice anyone smirking infront of me and if they were behind me smirking I didn't notice.

^

That's great, I know it felt really comfortable and I was at ease with myself.

In my teens I was very shy and couldn't express myself but now I'm really happy and upbeat. I did manage to look a few people in the eye as I walked and that really surprised me quite alot. Maybe I should have covered the adams apple but mine isn't that bad... still there tho lol! 

Hoping to go out again sometime next week for a walk, hoping that's as positive as my last experience. Been out the back this morning, just chilling and it's ok.

I'm sure it all takes time to get used to, people stared at me when I was a boy anyway so I'm used to it.

My position would  be very close to Carrie Liz on this question. With the face I had on top of my 6'1" , trying to engage in a RLE without any prior preparation would have been totally suicidal. (Nota: Some day I'll post the before and afters)
HRT was part of the story but I took it a good deal further, also doing FFS before trying to go full time. The only precaution I took was doing my FFS in two steps, upper face first, lower face one year later so that I had time to take stock before making changes that were too radical.  Of course FFS is irreversible and my face has changed beyond belief especially since my second operation, but it is not quite as much a life changing  experience as bottom surgery.
Also, like Carrie Liz, even if I never manage to transition fully while still working, I am just so much happier with my physical presentation now compared to before when I totally hated my face in particular.
GRS is actually less important to me but is already coming up on the agenda now that I know I can evolve succesfully in society as a woman, at least in my private life. However that would have been totally impossible without first going through the above steps.
Last detail, I am absolutely convinced that HRT has changed my behaviours, helping me to socialize more easily and naturally as a woman.
To conclude, no way would I have engaged in a RLE without being reasonably passable and I have no doubt whatsover that the fact that I was, has greatly contributed to a mostly trouble free transition so far.
Donna
 

Kia Ora,

Self Confidence grows the more one expresses it, and the other thing that RLE does is to help trans-people develop theirs...Even if at first one feels that they have deliberately been thrown into the deep end of the societal judgement pool they have the choice of  'learning' to swim(develop coping mechanisms-if need be)  or sink( put it in the "Too Hard" basket and give up on their dream)...

Metta Zenda

My thought on it is that after FFS and Voice training with or without surgery that would be the best time to go full time. From that point I think I would pass. Going too soon would destroy my already low confidence. Afterwards those that know me hopefully would compliment me on the progress and those that don't know me would not suspect anything.

Quote from: Kuan Yin on May 21, 2013, 11:49:17 PM
Kia Ora,

Self Confidence grows the more one expresses it, and the other thing that RLE does is to help trans-people develop theirs...Even if at first one feels that they have deliberately been thrown into the deep end of the societal judgement pool they have the choice of  'learning' to swim(develop coping mechanisms-if need be)  or sink( put it in the "Too Hard" basket and give up on their dream)...

Metta Zenda

Hi Kuan,
When I read the above comment I can't help but think that there is something totally self-destructive about deliberately placing yourself in a position where there is a strong likelihood of sinking. Trying to be accepted as a woman when everything about you is screaming "MAN" to everyone around you is very much such a position and unless you have both very thick skin and the means to survive a long period of unemployment, I would humbly suggest that it is a position that is best avoided.
Warm regards.
Donna

P.S. I may be a coward but I far prefer to be called Madame when presenting as a guy than as Sir when presenting as a woman...

Quote from: Donna Elvira on May 30, 2013, 05:33:52 PM
Hi Kuan,
When I read the above comment I can't help but think that there is something totally self-destructive about deliberately placing yourself in a position where there is a strong likelihood of sinking. Trying to be accepted as a woman when everything about you is screaming "MAN" to everyone around you is very much such a position and unless you have both very thick skin and the means to survive a long period of unemployment, I would humbly suggest that it is a position that is best avoided.
Warm regards.
Donna

P.S. I may be a coward but I far prefer to be called Madame when presenting as a guy than as Sir when presenting as a woman...

I've found the quickest way to get yourself in trouble is to not give the cisgender community a chance to be cool.  Even if your history is visible or known, when you're being authentic to yourself that does seem to appeal to a lot of people and it smooths over a lot of problems.  Not to mention, what if someone came up to you and effectively said, "I assume you will discriminate against me." and it was clear they meant their words.  What would be your reaction be?

Can there be problems?  Sure, happens.  But I don't think it's self-destructive.  I think it can be self-affirming.  In addition, you get to be an example to the upcoming generation that you don't have to pass perfectly to live your life which, I hold, would help make dealing with this a little easier.

All that said I do remain glad RLE is an opt-in these days as a successful transition, I think, depends a lot on confidence and comfort.

Quote from: Donna Elvira on May 30, 2013, 05:33:52 PM
Hi Kuan,
When I read the above comment I can't help but think that there is something totally self-destructive about deliberately placing yourself in a position where there is a strong likelihood of sinking. Trying to be accepted as a woman when everything about you is screaming "MAN" to everyone around you is very much such a position and unless you have both very thick skin and the means to survive a long period of unemployment, I would humbly suggest that it is a position that is best avoided.
Warm regards.
Donna

P.S. I may be a coward but I far prefer to be called Madame when presenting as a guy than as Sir when presenting as a woman...

Kia Ora Donna,

I think we may have cross wires...

When I talk about self confidence growing I'm on about every time one ventures out as their 'true self' ...And in regards to the "Real Life Experience" I'm on about 'after' one has been on HRT for a while...Not one having to go cold turkey...Mind you from what I gather some have done this with some success, Misato is a good example of this...

Back when I transitioned I didn't have to do any RLE because I was not interested in surgery, I went full time when the time was right for me to do so, I had been on HRT for around 18 months...But in saying this, the more I ventured out as "me" the more comfortable I became...And I guess this would apply to those of you who do have to do RLE...It also gives one time to iron out any bumps in the road especially when 'life changing' surgery is involved...

So in a nutshell I'm 'not' advocating cold turkey  RLE sans HRT or for that matter facial surgery if one needs it to feel more confident...

I hope this clarifies things regarding doing the RLE...

What's the weather like there ?

Metta Zenda

To both Misato and Kuan,
One of my last posts here before quite a long break due to work commitments was in reaction to a post by Misato, quickly amplified by quite a few others, describing the  loneliness of their situation.

To me, such posts attest to  the limits of self affirmation and while I actually agree that many people can be very sympathetic towards our authenticity and desire to be true to ourselves, I still believe that you are putting yourself in a very difficult place if you don't look the part. Sure you can use tactics like going up to people  and say,  "I assume you will discriminate against me."  which, in many  cases, will probably at least temporarily silence" the opposition" but, most of the time, I suspect  it won't get you any closer to the person you are confronting simply because it is just so... confrontational.  Based on this, people may not pick on you but you will probably still find yourself in a very lonely place. 

At the end of that day, I guess our personal decisions in this area  depend on how much we need other people. I am a very sociable person and simply could not imagine a life without the warmth and fun of interacting with others. I can understand that this need may not be so great for everyone so I'm not saying that what is right/necessary for me is right for everyone. However, it has been very comforting for me to see that none of my friends seem to be in a any way uneasy going out in public with me since I transitioned. The fact that I had been on HRT for a long time before and have also done FFS has, without any doubt, made what I am doing far easier for everyone.
Warmest best wishes to both of you.
Donna

P.S. To Kuan. The weather here today  is appalling as it has been for most of the last 7 months. Tomorrow is the 1st of June  but, yet again,  it rained all day long, never got warmer than 14°c and we are still using central heating...   How about your end of the world? 

   

I lived a large part of my teens in two different worlds - pseudo-boy mode at home and girl whenever I could slip away. I did that  for years until it got too painful going back to boy mode; it was like a tease.

Living in girl mode (stealth, of course, in the 1960s!) helped me develop that part of my personality and I found I was quite different in girl mode - much  more outgoing, more at ease and natural - almost opposite to my pseudo-boy mode personality.

When the chance to transition and have SRS came along at age 24 I KNEW it was right for me and transition came easily and naturally. It was just  a matter of dropping all pretense and being ME. Without the years of dabbling in girl mode, I would never have been as certain that transition was the right thing and transition itself would have been much more scary. (RLE was a requirement for surgery in those days as well.)

The loneliness I feel of late has been largely due to the work projects I've been assigned.  I've found competence over a number of disciplines can be isolating.  And sure, I don't like the insurance situation at my current job.  But, I've got a job that allows me to pay for HRT and therapy out of my own pocket if it comes to that. On top of that just today, I had an interview with the company that's been my goal for 13 years.  That interview process even started with a e-mail to an ancient account of mine so I had to reply, "Great to hear from you! Only it's Paige now."  I've had one of the best, most fun dialogs with a recruiter since!

I also think there was NO way I would have been successful in my last semester of Grad School had I not had my RLE.  Too many stresses of trying to maintain a guy mode while working 25 hours a week and going to school full time where one of my classes was a dragon that had been haunting me for 8 years.  While RLE created some new problems for me (hello riding the #2 bus) in the end it was a stress reduction overall for me personally.

I would also note, I've sited the trans based research I did in Grad School in two recent interviews.  Once for my current job and the one today.  I believe it's been helpful.

Quote from: Donna Elvira on May 31, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
Sure you can use tactics like going up to people  and say,  "I assume you will discriminate against me."  which, in many cases, will probably at least temporarily silence" the opposition" but, most of the time, I suspect  it won't get you any closer to the person you are confronting simply because it is just so... confrontational.

I agree that it's confrontational to make that assumption.  That's why I give cisgendered people the chance to be cool.

I'm welcomed in my Writing Group.  By my co-workers at work.  I was welcomed in Grad School the day I showed up expressing Paige so long before HRT began. One day I showed up presenting a male and my classmates were all, "What's wrong?  Are you OK?  Where's Paige?" And most importantly I learned I could succeed in my life even with my past known.  I later learned I could be invited to the girls only events at work (lunches, girls nights out) even with my past known.

Am I glad I didn't have to go to work for my RLE in order to start HRT?  Oh yeah!  I'm grateful I could tailor my RLE to my needs.  I just do think putting myself out there and experiencing the worst case scenario and finding I could thrive and finally be happy and that I wouldn't be an epithet receptacle, that's been one of the most important steps I've taken in my transition.

All I'm trying to say, to those coming up behind me is, you can live.  Even if people can tell you're trans, cisgendered people can very often be happy to be around you.  They can be unflustered by being seen with you and will even include you in gatherings.  Hire you.  Truly, in my experience I've found the bulk of my hangups on dealing with the cisgendered during my RLE were due to the insecurities I was projecting onto them but were really my own. By accepting myself and taking that barrier down, the life rewards I've gotten just makes me want to stand on a hill screaming, "Over here!  This way!  It isn't for everyone but this path might just work for you too!"

Quote from: Donna Elvira on May 31, 2013, 01:37:04 PM

P.S. To Kuan. The weather here today  is appalling as it has been for most of the last 7 months. Tomorrow is the 1st of June  but, yet again,  it rained all day long, never got warmer than 14°c and we are still using central heating...   How about your end of the world? 

Kia Ora Donna,

Well it's winter time here, so no more skinny dipping for me for a while, mind you some locals swim all year around... There's plenty of snow in the south island and lower north island, however where I live(Nth of the Nth Island) we don't get snow, but it still gets quite cool averaging around 16 during the day ...

I have a son living in Eastern Europe he said for a while the weather was really hot 28-30 then all of a sudden it dropped to 4...

Metta Zenda

I think it's important to do the RLE before SRS.I did 3 years 2 months before surgery and found full time work as a woman.Before going full time I lived in role at nights and socialised as a woman on the local LGBT scene at first to see if it could manage to keep my dysphoria away.While it was one of the happiest times of my life working as a guy and living a dual life was also very hard and I hated presenting as male even more.I self medicated HRT and did electrolysis while growing my hair out and went from a hairy masculine guy to an androgynous feminine person before going full time over a 19 month period.No way could I have managed full time without help from HRT and electrolysis first.We're all different and this worked well for me,it might not be OK for you(especially self medicating).I was lucky I only lost 1 friend and all my family were OK,I've been to 5 school reunions and often bump into people on the pool/ punk/metal/classic car and bike scene I knew and they've all been great with me.Nearly all SRS regretters didn't do a sufficient RLE from what I've read so I think it's important

I am not scared to go full time in public, my friends or family finding out, only one that worries me is the people at work.
I don't hang out with any of my friends very much at all. If they don't like it and don't want to be friends anymore, that would not be too different from how it is now. My family, while most would be unhappy and maybe disgusted by it, I truly believe eventually they would be accepted about it. My work, on the other hand, I hang out with them for 40 hours a week. Although I don't hang out with them outside of work, I consider them my best friends and would really hate any change in their view of me. The boss is gay so I am not worried about getting fired over it, but that is basically my social life.

Quote from: big kim on June 01, 2013, 04:39:33 AM
I think it's important to do the RLE before SRS.I did 3 years 2 months before surgery and found full time work as a woman.Before going full time I lived in role at nights and socialised as a woman on the local LGBT scene at first to see if it could manage to keep my dysphoria away.While it was one of the happiest times of my life working as a guy and living a dual life was also very hard and I hated presenting as male even more.I self medicated HRT and did electrolysis while growing my hair out and went from a hairy masculine guy to an androgynous feminine person before going full time over a 19 month period.No way could I have managed full time without help from HRT and electrolysis first.We're all different and this worked well for me,it might not be OK for you(especially self medicating).I was lucky I only lost 1 friend and all my family were OK,I've been to 5 school reunions and often bump into people on the pool/ punk/metal/classic car and bike scene I knew and they've all been great with me.Nearly all SRS regretters didn't do a sufficient RLE from what I've read so I think it's important

Kia Ora Kim,

That's so true...When some(a small minority I might add) first go full time it would seem a mad euphoric rush begins to engulf them, blocking out any thoughts of what the future might hold-and surgery becomes the be all and end all...

Sadly I've heard cases where cis-people have told their trans-female-friend, "Once you have had 'the' surgery-then I'll see and treat you as a female!"  which can increase the trans-female's desire for a 'rush job' surgery - unfortunately they misguidedly begin to think perhaps other cis-people will do the same...

"Prevention is better than cure!" and in this case prevention means'=longer RLE '(practice makes perfect) by fully preparing oneself (well as best as one can mentally and physically) for what's to come...

In my particular case I had no interest in surgery because I couldn't afford it...However when I found out about government funding being available, I went for it, after all I had nothing to lose, and fortunately for me my application was approved...The rest is history...After  four and half years living full time prior to having surgery(I had surgery in 2005) all the bumps in my road were well and truly smoothed out...I've never looked back...   

Metta Zenda

I have a very different perspective about RLE. In spite of transitioning in the US in the last few years, I was held by my providers to very restrictive interpretations of the SoC. I was effectively required to do RLE to get HRT (I was approaching two years RLE before I received an effective HRT dose, which came over 4 years after my initial HRT prescription was written - in essence, my providers saw the SoC as hard-and-fast rules when flexibility would be in my favor, but malleable guidelines when the flexibility was in favor of their desire to be more restrictive.) Further, my therapist extended the 1 year RLE requirement in multiple ways (made it 1 year since the first post-FT therapy session to be allowed to request a letter, then, after agreeing to write my letter, delayed for months on actually writing it.)

All of these factors - the additional delays and, frankly, passive-aggressive tactics by medical and mental health personnel - lead to me being in a worse mental/emotional state for dealing with GRS and long-term transition. I am presently seeking therapy because I realize that I'm dealing with a great deal of emotional trauma as a result of their actions.

I will also add that my first year of RLE went spectacularly well - I did lose some family but quickly made my peace with it and got on with my life. I transitioned while working for a public university then secured another job with a corporation, a job that was definitely "grabbing the brass ring" for my profession. According to my providers, my RLE was going "too well," though.

ETA: for clarity, I was 2 years, 1 month, and 6 days RLE when I had GCS.

Quote from: Agent_J on June 03, 2013, 04:52:18 PM
I have a very different perspective about RLE. In spite of transitioning in the US in the last few years, I was held by my providers to very restrictive interpretations of the SoC. I was effectively required to do RLE to get HRT (I was approaching two years RLE before I received an effective HRT dose, which came over 4 years after my initial HRT prescription was written - in essence, my providers saw the SoC as hard-and-fast rules when flexibility would be in my favor, but malleable guidelines when the flexibility was in favor of their desire to be more restrictive.) Further, my therapist extended the 1 year RLE requirement in multiple ways (made it 1 year since the first post-FT therapy session to be allowed to request a letter, then, after agreeing to write my letter, delayed for months on actually writing it.)

All of these factors - the additional delays and, frankly, passive-aggressive tactics by medical and mental health personnel - lead to me being in a worse mental/emotional state for dealing with GRS and long-term transition. I am presently seeking therapy because I realize that I'm dealing with a great deal of emotional trauma as a result of their actions.

I will also add that my first year of RLE went spectacularly well - I did lose some family but quickly made my peace with it and got on with my life. I transitioned while working for a public university then secured another job with a corporation, a job that was definitely "grabbing the brass ring" for my profession. According to my providers, my RLE was going "too well," though.

ETA: for clarity, I was 2 years, 1 month, and 6 days RLE when I had GCS.

Kia Ora Agent_J,

Sorry to hear about all the pain your providers put you through...Do you know if other trans-people were treated the same by them, ie made to do a long period of RLE prior to getting HRT ?

In regards to surgery and dilating(as per another thread) all I can say (from experience) is, it does get easier, so hang in there...


Metta Zenda