So I was listening to a debate with a very bias person i know (my friends cousin) who doesn't know im transgender (but i think he suspects) about Fallon Fox (mma fighter) who is also transgender, well this fellow and some of his family members kept debating about Fallon Fox and said she should not be allowed to fight against real women- (their words) as she is still male and has all the male advantage of having lived as a male for 31 yrs and having a male physique. I didn't wanna say anything as this was a rather intimidating group of males and seeing and hearing the way they feel about trans people i decided that it was best to lay low. In the debate someone brought up the idea that there should be transgender sports since according to them trans people don't physically belong in gender selective sports- they say Fallon Fox in the female mma is like a man beating up women. Now I want your opinion, do you think Transgender sports would be a good idea? i  think there wouldn't be much controversy as there is now. Would it be productive or counterproductive to the trans community? what do you think?

A sports league specific to transgendered individuals?  Counterproductive, imo.  Isolating large groups of people due to intolerance has never been beneficial to socialization.

Quote from: Horizon on May 21, 2013, 07:03:07 PM
A sports league specific to transgendered individuals?  Counterproductive, imo.  Isolating large groups of people due to intolerance has never been beneficial to socialization.

On the other hand, there's a very good reason women's leagues are separate entities from men's - and it's got nothing to do with intolerance.

I think we really need some statistical study - see if transgendered competitors are in standard birth-sex performance range or in the performance range of their true gender, and thus lay the whole thing to rest.

Quote from: Horizon on May 21, 2013, 07:03:07 PM
A sports league specific to transgendered individuals?  Counterproductive, imo.  Isolating large groups of people due to intolerance has never been beneficial to socialization.

Special Olympics seems to work your isolation angle pretty well. Hugs, Devlyn

There aren't enough trans peeps for a sports league. Especially since half of the trans population prob doesn't even like sports. Well I don't know if it's half but you get the point.

Actually the performance of "transgendered athletes" HAS been studied and a MtF (in general) is at a disadvantage after about 3 years post-op because they have lower testosterone levels than GGs and that decreases endurance and increases muscle recovery times. The MtF will also be carrying more bone mass with proportionally less muscle mass. The IOC investigated this before opening the Olympics to transsexuals a few years ago.

I was involved in figure skating when I was younger and waited until the IOC ruling before going back into the sport and competing against other women.

Isn't that mma "sport" rigged anyway? Or am I thinking about that wrestling stuff?

I'm sure the way those girls work out its a pretty even field

Well... I'll sum up my opinion this way... In July I'll be competing in my first olympic distance triathlon post-op. I will be competing in the female division. The officials and organizers are aware of my past and approved it... and that's all that matters to me. Now I hope I can get back in-shape fast enough. 

Because I dislike sports in general, I really wouldn't care one way or the other.  Though, any transgender league would doom to be a failure because it doesn't seem financially viable.  Would anyone really watch this league on a long term basis?  I really doubt it.  Personally, I think it would be smarter to make sporting leagues that are gender inclusive instead of limiting it to transgender people.

Quote from: JennX on May 21, 2013, 08:14:56 PM
Well... I'll sum up my opinion this way... In July I'll be competing in my first olympic distance triathlon post-op. I will be competing in the female division. The officials and organizers are aware of my past and approved it... and that's all that matters to me. Now I hope I can get back in-shape fast enough. 

Your do right. I'm going out for volleyball and the same thing. They know

Quote from: learningtolive on May 21, 2013, 08:17:14 PM
Because I dislike sports in general, I really wouldn't care one way or the other.  Though, any transgender league would doom to be a failure because it doesn't seem financially viable.  Would anyone really watch this league on a long term basis?  I really doubt it.  Personally, I think it would be smarter to make sporting leagues that are gender inclusive instead of limiting it to transgender people.

Actually I think people would watch it. But not to root for people. Instead to say look ->-bleeped-<-s! Lots of 'em! In lingerie! But who would want to subject themselves to that? Not me. Not now. Not ever. No way.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on May 21, 2013, 10:09:25 PM
Actually I think people would watch it. But not to root for people. Instead to say look ->-bleeped-<-s! Lots of 'em! In lingerie! But who would want to subject themselves to that? Not me. Not now. Not ever. No way.

Actually, you might be right.   Still, I don't think it would last for long.  People wouldn't stay interested for long.  Besides, if guys wanted to look at transwomen in revealing clothing, they a lot of options available to them.  It's sad, but we have become a fetish.

Quote from: Elsa.G on May 21, 2013, 05:44:45 PM
Now I want your opinion, do you think Transgender sports would be a good idea? i  think there wouldn't be much controversy as there is now. Would it be productive or counterproductive to the trans community? what do you think?

There is a common, barely justifiable argument, especially when you consider that heavier bones mean less muscle mass per pound. The bone density differences between males and females aren't very big as it is - Fallon Fox is not likely to be at a huge advantage because of her former male life, especially since it's been so long since she's had testosterone in her body due to her SRS ten years ago (I believe that's the right number). She has long surpassed the requirements that the Olympics have toward its trans female athletes, and I don't imagine the Olympics would make a judgement that is unfair in competition.

I think her presence in MMA as a female contender is justified and fair. We will be able to measure this fairness in detail by her success in MMA, which, so far, is very average, if not underwhelming.

Trans-specific sports are unnecessary. However, if trans women did have an advantage against other women, trans sports would also suffer the problem of having no competitors. They couldn't possibly succeed, even before we delve into the moral issues and politics.

Quote from: Michelle G on May 21, 2013, 07:58:04 PM
Isn't that mma "sport" rigged anyway? Or am I thinking about that wrestling stuff?

That'd be the WWE. It's very well-known for how fake it is, and the producers don't even bother to hide it. The UFC, however, is legitimate as far as anyone knows.

I have never been very athletic so most women of average or above athletic ability would leave me in the dust.     There really is no reason for athletes who are male to compete in women's athletics because they would never be considered winners.    Transgender women athletes are women and should be allowed to compete in women's sports as long as they do not have a male hormone level that makes them more male than female.   

Because there are so many different levels of athletic competition the rules for competition should be based upon the nature of the athletic event.   We probably need more genderless athletic competition to determine if gender for the most part makes a difference.   The fact is because there is only one winner in most athletic events everybody who doesn't win is considered a loser.   Some events may be dominated by the male gender while others by the female gender and in some  their will not make any difference.   

Winning not only depends upon ability it is based on training so the extent that the athletic willing to train determines who the winner will be.   Athletes who over train many times injure themselves and this injury may cause their defeat.    Success in team sports depends upon practice and having the best qualified athletes for each position you can get for the team.   Any particular position on a team will depend upon the athletes physical characteristics and ability and not on their gender.

For those of us of limited physical ability in sports we could be replaced on a team by anyone athletic and in individual sports we would be dead last in any gendered athletic event so keeping us out of the race would be pointless.

Each athlete should be judged individually to qualify for each sporting event.   Transgendered men and women should not be disqualified just for being transgender.    When people cheat to win and it is discovered they usually disqualified and their prizes are taken a way.   Pretending to be male or female to win is cheating and honest and respected athletes would never do it.

What did all of the athletes who used steroids to win really win when they were found out and disqualified from the races they won.   The same goes for the athletes who cheated and won but were never found out.

While a trasgender league might be good for exposure, I don't think it would help many of us to be seen as our target genders.  It could just be another way to be separated from "normal" people... especially if HRT does put us in the correct performance ranges.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on May 21, 2013, 07:39:44 PM
There aren't enough trans peeps for a sports league. Especially since half of the trans population prob doesn't even like sports. Well I don't know if it's half but you get the point.

Yeah I just don't think it would work.