There's something I've started to notice, seeing a bunch of us guys as kids then now
Lots of us it seems like just didn't look like girls before- we may have passed as girls, but looking back at photos, we all still somehow seem to look like the guys we really are. I'm talking about like when guys make vids of a year on T or something where they show photos from their entire life up until now, so we see them before they came out or even knew who they were, they always still somehow look more like the guy that they are than the 'girl' supposed to be in the picture.
(I hope I'm totally explaining this so it makes sense...)

Anybody else seem to notice this?

I didn't really see any youtube videos of transitioning guys, maybe a few. I can only speak for myself but yeah it makes sense to me. Looking back the photos and remembering I had maybe 5 years when I wasn't mistaken for a guy.

I've noticed that too. I think I might have two to five photos of me as a child left. When I started transitioning my mom foolishly gave me ALL of the photos of me growing up (I think it was a way for her to say goodbye to the child she once knew) and I put them in a fire pit. Now I wish I would have thought about it first...but oh well.

Anyways, I never looked like a typical female growing up except for my long hair. My dad made me have long hair as a child because I would be "mistaken" for a boy if I didn't. I just looked like a little boy in drag most of the time, lol.

I think it's a possibility that many of us are like that because one theory on ftm's is at some point in utero we were flooded with testosterone. That would make sense.

Than you won't end up like the girl in the joke...in the opposite side. 

Actually, I can see that even looking at my old pictures of me. The only thing that made me look girly was having long hair and the fact my lips always looked really red. (As if I wore lipstick 24-7.) When my dad lopped off my hair, I looked like a coconut headed boy with lipstick on.

Haha, I was actually thinking about this watching some videos the other day.

I'm not sure about photos of me as a child. We don't really keep stuff like that around at my house. They're probably all in the attic or something. And I was forced to have long hair, too, but I remember I always dressed in really big t-shirts and stuff, although sometimes I wanted to be girly like some of my friends were and wore girl shorts or belly shirts. But I always HATED dresses, and felt so out of place whenever I wore one.

Although to be fair, I developed full body hair when I was 6 or 7, so that made me look pretty masculine in anything I wore, even dresses. xD

I know exactly what you mean.

I've always looked back at old pictures and figured that I just looked more masculine because I dressed tomboyish when I was younger and carried myself in a more masculine way. Even in pictures from a few years ago when I was trying to accept my biological gender and dress a little more femininely, I still had a much more masculine style.

But after looking at pictures where I'm standing with some female friends or my sisters though, I noticed that even my face looks more masculine. My sisters have rounder faces with softer features but I've always had a more angular face, broader shoulders, and other subtle differences.

The differences aren't noticeable enough to make me look completely masculine but they're noticeable enough to make me seem out of place as a female. I think there's definitely something to the theory that ftm's get more testosterone in utero.

I went through a lot of old photographs and then threw them out as I was coming to terms with being trans, was pretty reassuring to see picture proof of me always acting like a boy.  The earliest photograph I have on my laptop is this one: http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/537345_577890842225157_1749484053_n.jpg and I can't tell whether I would look like a girl if I was wearing what seems to be a hospital gown with hideously long hair (bottom row, second from the left).

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we're just not comfortable doing "female" things, and either look awkward, or naturally act masculine.  For example, I never even knew it wasn't the done thing to sit with your knees splayed until I started looking up trans things at fifteen or so.  Just like having femme habits and actions hinders our passing as men, having masculine habits before society tries to iron them out of us as kids probably makes us come across as more masculine.

When we try and fit in as a girl in later years we just look awkward, out of place, and can't pull it off properly.  Okay, some guys can, but I for one never could, and I've seen photographs of other guys who just looked wrong and awkward trying to be girly.

Obviously there might be a biological basis to it, maybe it's a mixture of the two, but this seems to make a bit of sense to me.  Maybe it's also us knowing what the "final product" looks like most of the time when we come across these comparison photographs and trying to find aspects of that in the earlier ones.

Even though I looked pretty feminine for a while, I did have comments like "she looks like a man", and my ex told me that she never saw a woman who looked like me before. Lol.

Definitely know what you mean.  In the seventh grade I had this massive proto-crush on a girl from summer camp, and ran into her a few months later in the video store with family.  We talked for a moment,  and as I walked away I heard her friend ask, "was that a boy, or a girl?" and then giggling...it was one of those shocking moments when you realize that you're not the only one who realizes how "weird" you are.  (To put it like my eleven-year-old self would have...)  The giggling didn't help, lol.

-Jake

I think you're seeing what you want to see. Most kids are so androgynous-looking that it's easy to "read in" masculinity, although this is especially true when the kid has shorter hair or doesn't wear traditionally feminine garb. But still...when I was looking at yearbook photos of seventh graders a number of years ago, I found myself looking especially for boyish girls because, well, you know. Then, when I looked at their high school yearbook photos, I saw that they had turned into quite feminine-appearing girls. I doubt that more than one of these kids turned out to be FTM, but I can easily look back at old pics of them and note how "masculine" they seemed at twelve, before puberty hit.

I have always looked female. Its part of the big reason I fought so hard to be female. Its part of the big reason why I did a lot of self destructive stuff when I fought so hard to be female. I felt shame and depression for so long because I fought so hard. In all of my pictures no one would gender me properly. I have a constant source of dysphoria every day because no one ever makes the 'mistake' of gendering me correctly. Because my voice sounds so weird I get a lot of women being super uncomfortable with me because I'm that chick with the low voice and big boobs. I wish I were lucky to look even remotely male even as a young kid.

Quote from: peky on May 22, 2013, 04:25:48 PM
So what is with the fem avatar dude? It is confusing!

Lots of men put up pics of hot chicks instead of themselves or something masculine. Lots of masculine men cosplay as female characters.

Why did I put up a picture of a green frog thing. Cause I could!

I just looked like a long-haired kid when I was younger, though I wore feminine clothing so people could (usually) tell my birth sex (because I liked feminine clothing for a while). Then in the sixth grade my shoulders broadened drastically and my face changed so I looked like I was cross-dressing in the picture! All the kids laughed at it, silly children that they were. From there onwards I looked androgynous/masculine in most of the pictures taken of me, I wore a dress to the "prom" we had in the eighth grade and looked like someone had shoved Grendel himself in a dress. It was ridiculous. I also stopped wearing "girly" clothing in middle school as well so it accentuated the masculinity.

Funny, when we were infants my older cousin was always mistaken for a boy, yet she turned out almost hyperfeminine. I guess the tables turned on that one 

Quote from: Arch on May 23, 2013, 12:44:25 AM
I think you're seeing what you want to see. Most kids are so androgynous-looking that it's easy to "read in" masculinity, although this is especially true when the kid has shorter hair or doesn't wear traditionally feminine garb. But still...when I was looking at yearbook photos of seventh graders a number of years ago, I found myself looking especially for boyish girls because, well, you know. Then, when I looked at their high school yearbook photos, I saw that they had turned into quite feminine-appearing girls. I doubt that more than one of these kids turned out to be FTM, but I can easily look back at old pics of them and note how "masculine" they seemed at twelve, before puberty hit.

I agree with Arch, pre-puberty kids can easily look either male or female depending on how their parents dress them, or like in watching transition timelines, if we know someone is male, it's easier to see them as male. Like, I think I am horrible here at the "Do I Pass?" thread because I already know you guys are male so my mind immediately places you in the male category.

For older pictures, I can understand what you mean for some, like if the guys look awkward wearing a dress or whatever, though I know plenty of cis-women who look awkward in dresses as well.

Looking back at my older pictures, I just see a FAAB girl who just takes awful pictures lol. I usually either look really stupid or evil in my photos.

I found some pix of me in my 20s. If I had bound I would totally have passed. Unfortunately easier to do in your 20s, if you are young looking (wouldn't pass as a 20 year old though). I should scan them in (have to scan as these are snapshots).

Hey D0ll I'm curious about your avatar as well.


--Jay

Curiously, I refreshed a friendship (through FB) of someone I knew years ago. She shared some photos of us "back in the day" at a Halloween party. I had NO memory of any of this.

I almost fell out of my chair!! This long-forgotten pic of me at junior high age. You guessed it! I went as a lumberjack!! I looked almost exactly as I look nowadays--flannel shirt, wool cap--I even had fake facial hair my dad had somehow helped me with.

I posted it on FB with the caption "same as it ever was." 

I could have posted it on the "badass" thread!!

(Also, I think Jay speaks for all of us regarding DOll's avatar!!!)

Quote from: Arch on May 23, 2013, 12:44:25 AM
I think you're seeing what you want to see. Most kids are so androgynous-looking that it's easy to "read in" masculinity, although this is especially true when the kid has shorter hair or doesn't wear traditionally feminine garb. But still...when I was looking at yearbook photos of seventh graders a number of years ago, I found myself looking especially for boyish girls because, well, you know. Then, when I looked at their high school yearbook photos, I saw that they had turned into quite feminine-appearing girls. I doubt that more than one of these kids turned out to be FTM, but I can easily look back at old pics of them and note how "masculine" they seemed at twelve, before puberty hit.

I can actually see this in some ways. Sometimes, I looked like someone tackled their little brother and slapped a dress on him while other pictures, I look like a semi-normal girl. (Maybe awkward but I've always been that way.) However, there was times in the pictures of my younger self that just look "boy" or at least leave you questioning if it's really a girl. Until I reached high school/late middle school, no one corrected my boyish mannerisms and it's obvious from videos/pictures. I had a lot of that "beaten" out of me but I've been relearning the old habits. I'm visiting my mother tommorow and can show you the coconut head boy picture if you are interested. lol

I'm with Alexander on this one, I think that pre-puberty we could be either or but if we've had our issues with gender from a young age we just often appear awkward in female clothing when we look at old pictures. 

Looking at me as a kid, I only smile when I'm in more gender neutral or boyish clothing.  I don't think I was a particularly down kid, I remember having a lot of fun, but when I was in girlier clothes I think it was like I could just ignore it myself and have fun despite it, but when the camera came out, the camera couldn't ignore the clothes and I just didn't want the picture taken.  I guess it's hard to explain.  Needless to say, being as I went to school in Scotland where pretty much every school had uniforms, I look unhappy in almost every school photo because of the skirt.  I didn't love school, but I did eventually make a few friends in high school and even pics with them I don't look too happy but only in shots where you could see the bottom half.  Reason?  Well I LOVED the school uniform from waist up.  I insisted on unisex/guys shirts and so I'd wear a shirt with a tie, maybe a guy's jumper (in colder months) and then a blazer.  It was like a suit...if you ignored the pleated skirt I had to wear.  I never really acknowledged it at the time but photos of me waist up with friends in school when I had short hair, I'm happy.  In pictures taken from further away where you could see my skirt, I look awkward, like I don't want to be there, and most often not smiling.  Took me a while to think about it but it was purely an unconscious thing at the time and I can only guess that it's because the camera can't ignore what I forced myself to pretend wasn't there.  Or to be more honest, I used to think of my skirt as being like a kilt.  Hey, I'm Scottish after all and I can't wait to transition to a point where I'm comfortable enough to go out and buy (yes buy, not rent) a kilt!

It's also worth noting that in these pre-T photos, there's a very high probability of pics of them in female clothes when maybe they didn't know someone was taking a photo where they do actually appear happy or more "right" with their gender.  But because they're showing off their masculinity, they might be hesitant to include any photos of them looking happy when feminine.  If anything to stop all the haters ready to pounce with "You're not transgender - you looked happy as a woman!" 

The thing is you don't have to be depressed and suicidal about being transgender, but outside the community (and unfortunately at times even within the community) there's this idea that unless you're extremely depressed to suicidal levels over it; it's not real.  I've personally never been depressed or suicidal myself, more though the confidence to not care what others (unless it's my family) think.  But even I would never put together a vid of before and after with any picture that anyone managed to get of me happy in female clothes, and I know there's gotta be a couple of photos out there like that because I've always been a bit of a joker within groups of friends.  If I was putting together a vid I'd always chose an awkward photo to help almost justify it to haters, like, "Yeah, this IS right for me because look - I wasn't happy!"  I don't need to justify anything to myself but would rather highlight the change with stark contrast, so I'd put in pics of me unhappy as a female and pics of me standing taller and being happy as a man.  I guess that even if we didn't think about it logically like that, it's something we'd do subconsciously anyway because we're proud of the transformation and trying to show that off.

Pre-puberty I just looked like a kid... as kids should.  I do have some pictures of when I was 14 to about 23 or so and presenting as a girl.  Obviously not trying very hard, though.  I don't look feminine at all... I do in a couple of pictures where I went through a phase where I was trying really hard to be a "normal girl" and also attractive because I wanted a date... but even then, I was never good at the whole dressing as a girl thing.  Most of my clothes have always come out of the men's section... even before it occurred to me that I was trans. 

Heh, you got me looking back at pictures, and it's kind of fun.