"Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest."
-- Joshua 1:9

Peace be with y'all!

What keeps you in Christ Jesus? It seems to be more and more difficult in being a Christian in public, but I suppose that we should be thankful for the gift and blessing of diversity in our world.

However, the word 'Christian' can definitely carry a strong negative connotation. I generally say 'Anglican' than just mere 'Christian' because it has a very different feel and baggage to the word.

What makes you strong in your faith, or is your faith weak? What keeps you in your relationship with God through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ?

Peace!

Honestly, it's the fear of hell.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very weak faith.

The fact that I know - in a belief with certainty kind of way - that He exists. And with that premise, it only makes sense to follow Him.

Quote from: Malachite on June 18, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
Honestly, it's the fear of hell.  Nothing more, nothing less.

I have a very weak faith.

Who told you that might happen?

Malachite, I don't believe in a literal Hell or Heaven... plus, I feel that God is way more merciful than we think!

ZoeM, amen and amen! My own Faith, which is to hold to something that is based on a strong foundation, is pretty strong.

What keeps me going personally is Christ's presence in the Blessed Sacrament, and taking His teachings to heart. The Rosary and the Daily Office are two great helps to my own spiritual life as well.

 "We love him, because he first loved us."
  1 John 4:19

Love and Light.
Angelats

Quote from: Rahel on June 18, 2013, 07:27:50 AM
Malachite, I don't believe in a literal Hell or Heaven... plus, I feel that God is way more merciful than we think!

I do believe in hell. Its actually quite easy. Its here and present. Look for example at certain parts of Syria now, some places where people are murdered, raped, tortured and so on.
There are many many bad things happening now on this planet. You really can call literally hell.

But there are also good things happening too. Grace is also here.

The fear of hell is quite wise in my eyes. To fear the lord because we are at his mercy, not to be condemned.
Roman Catholics count this fear as one of the Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit.
The fear of the Lord is called the beginning or foundation of wisdom.
So i see there nothing wrong with it at all.


This reminds me of a Sufi story.
A muslim woman, Rabi'a al-Adawiyya, who lived in Basra (in Iraq) in the very early days of Sufism. Her chief contribution to the growing mysticism of Islam was her insistence that God should be loved, not out of fear of wrath or for the prospect of reward, but purely for himself. One of her sayings was: "O God! If I worship Thee in fear of Hell, burn me in Hell; and if I worship Thee in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise; but if I worship Thee for Thine own sake, withhold not Thine Everlasting Beauty!"  She was once seen carrying a burning torch in one hand and a bucket of water in the other. When asked why, she replied: "I am going to set fire to Paradise and quench the fires of Hell so that men may worship God for his own glory alone".  (The lines of the paragraph above are cited from a source on the web).

I see the fear of god as the beginning of wisdom. You do not do certain things because you fear to end up in hell. The aim is to recognize:

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."
1 John 4:8

The aim is then not to do evil because of fear of punishment,
but because of love for god.
You do not want to hurt the one you love by doing this.

Just my 2 cents.

Love and Light.
Angelats

Well, I'm far from traditional Christian but have a great admiration for Christ and what he taught or tried to teach us. What keeps me grounded is Christ was the Son of God and the Son of Man and we, all of us, are children of God just like he was. The word "worship" to me is not near as important as trying to model my own life after the way Christ lived with compassion, empathy, love for fellow humanbeings, trying to understand human Spirituality and many other things.

What keep me grounded is my admiration and awe of Christ, what he taught, how he lived and could very well have saved his own life but he died for his beliefs and convictions.

What keeps me in Christ?   He does.  He is my Savior, my God.

I trust in Him and His Word.  He has forgiven my sins, past, present and future.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on June 18, 2013, 08:28:52 AM
What keeps me in Christ?   He does.  He is my Savior, my God.

I trust in Him and His Word.  He has forgiven my sins, past, present and future.

Very well said. I feel the same way.

Years ago I was told by a church school teacher that God was Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent.  When I replied to him, "Oh, you mean God is all knowing, all powerful, and present in all places."  The teacher acknowledged my basic understanding, but insisted on his own words, and then over the next year told me where God could not be, things that the Devil and not God could know, and above all else, what God could not do, such as even acknowledge what I secretly knew was in me about gender.  In Jesus, I have found the fun and adventure in seeking and seeing God even in places others claim God cannot be, joy in hearing the wisdom and knowledge that God did not have, but shares daily with me, and true happiness and serenity in feeling the power of God to give me others in my life to help me become the True Self I was made to be.  God made me as I am, and it is good, it is through Jesus having been "made man" that I see the true sanctity that God has placed on all of us.  I too  walk a way of the Cross to be myself, but I now have joy in carrying it, and realize it for what it is. 

I totally agree that Hell can be here on earth, and we can feel its effects veritably. Whenever I address hell though, generally it comes from someone who assumes something with fire, pitchforks, and horned creatures in red pyjamas and tails. 

Another reason that keeps me in Christ? Some may disagree, but for me, she is an inspiration to me as the Mother of my Saviour!

Hard to say but I've always believed in Jesus even in my darkest times.

Jesus:
People expected him not to associate with the "sinners" like the tax collector, the gentiles, the criminals, the crippled, the beggars, but that's what he did.  I feel that this includes us as a group that the conventional conservative side of christianity opposes and discriminates against, much like how the jews discriminated against the samaritans for example. For that I search for those who recognize Jesus' acceptance of those who aren't part of the conventional thought of what a christian is. 

My mother said today in opposition to my trans identity and in response to a video of a trans woman being beaten brutally by two women: "I wouldn't beat them up like those two did, but i wouldn't think they are wrong in beating him up, and that he deserved it"
To think about wanting harm on another person is already as bad as doing the harm. But apparently, my mom believes it's okay to think this way.

I don't. I guess what keeps me is that i believe that God doesn't want his children to hate one another or discriminate, but because they do, using God as an excuse, i feel it part of my duty towards God to stop even just one person from discriminating because of religion.

  I am in another of many dark times of my life.  I still believe in Jesus (Yeshua) the Christ despite my science background, my GID, and the other things that's a burden to me.  Now it is the painful neuropathy in both soles of the feet that at times the pain puts me to sleep.  A lot of tests were done to determine the cause, but none found yet.  This has been going on for 15 - 20 years as psoriasis pain the Drs. thought, but it didn't get bad enough to literally immobilize me until last Fall.  One of the crosses I have to bear.

  Unlike Lot of the Old Testament, I still have my friends and family at my side.  Remember, Lot lost everything in the test between God and Lucifer.  It is my faith that keeps me going.  I even went to Washington and Oregon to track down lost family members while they are still alive last month.  I brought back info, video, stills and even brought my scanner to scan old photos and negatives.  All done with the pain still there despite the expensive pills my Dr. gave me.  Yeah, it was rainy and they still throw fish around at the Pike Market but I had a good time despite the pain. 

  Joelene

Quote from: Rahel on June 19, 2013, 02:43:23 AM
I totally agree that Hell can be here on earth, and we can feel its effects veritably. Whenever I address hell though, generally it comes from someone who assumes something with fire, pitchforks, and horned creatures in red pyjamas and tails. 

Another reason that keeps me in Christ? Some may disagree, but for me, she is an inspiration to me as the Mother of my Saviour!

Rahel, when it comes to hell I think most people confuse the concept with Dante's Inferno. I believe Christ talked about a 'Fiery pit' and so on and I think a a lot of folks confuse this parable with Dante's Inferno. In Christ's time, cities would have pits on the outskirts and would burn their rubbish in said pits. Criminals killed because of self preservation or caught stealing, or after capital punishments that would end their lives would be thrown in these pits. This is just me and my opinion but I think when Christ used this parrable it was just a comparrison but not in a literal sense. From a Gnostic point of view (not agnostic), Heaven and hell (comfort with oneself or turmoil in oneself) comes from within much like the search for and trying to understand God. When it comes to the final reconnection with God, I don't even think we as a whole can even begin to comprehend it or in no way describe it.

Quote from: Jess42 on June 19, 2013, 07:10:22 AM
Rahel, when it comes to hell I think most people confuse the concept with Dante's Inferno. I believe Christ talked about a 'Fiery pit' and so on and I think a a lot of folks confuse this parable with Dante's Inferno. In Christ's time, cities would have pits on the outskirts and would burn their rubbish in said pits. Criminals killed because of self preservation or caught stealing, or after capital punishments that would end their lives would be thrown in these pits. This is just me and my opinion but I think when Christ used this parrable it was just a comparrison but not in a literal sense. From a Gnostic point of view (not agnostic), Heaven and hell (comfort with oneself or turmoil in oneself) comes from within much like the search for and trying to understand God. When it comes to the final reconnection with God, I don't even think we as a whole can even begin to comprehend it or in no way describe it.

When I was growing up Catholic, a good catechism taught us that Heaven and Hell were not places, but states of existence for the soul. Closeness to God is described as Heaven, and being far from Him is Hell. Thus we can also experience that sort of heavenly or hellish state of existence both here on earth visibly, and within ourselves invisibly!

Knowing the historical and etymological terms of the words generally translated as 'Hell' such as Gehenna, Sheol, and Tartarus, I can no longer prescribe to some literal place in the Afterlife called 'Hell'. Likewise, just as the Christadelphians teach, 'Satan' and 'devil' being words to mean 'adversary, opposition', I no longer believe in a literal personification of evil.

However, I put my faith in Christ, and I know that He was, and is, and that we are to bring forth His Kingdom of peace, love, happiness, justice, beauty, mercy, and hope!


God bless!

Quote from: Rahel on June 20, 2013, 05:28:11 AM
When I was growing up Catholic, a good catechism taught us that Heaven and Hell were not places, but states of existence for the soul. Closeness to God is described as Heaven, and being far from Him is Hell. Thus we can also experience that sort of heavenly or hellish state of existence both here on earth visibly, and within ourselves invisibly!

Knowing the historical and etymological terms of the words generally translated as 'Hell' such as Gehenna, Sheol, and Tartarus, I can no longer prescribe to some literal place in the Afterlife called 'Hell'. Likewise, just as the Christadelphians teach, 'Satan' and 'devil' being words to mean 'adversary, opposition', I no longer believe in a literal personification of evil.
However, I put my faith in Christ, and I know that He was, and is, and that we are to bring forth His Kingdom of peace, love, happiness, justice, beauty, mercy, and hope!


God bless!

You know that is real wisdom in my opinion. I believe that opposition is within ourselves and we are our own adversaries. Call it the struggle between good and evil or the struggle between our spiritual selves and material selves or even liken it to cartoons in which the character has the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other.

Quote from: Rahel on June 20, 2013, 05:28:11 AM
When I was growing up Catholic, a "Herewith, Hope It Serves. As Always, Christopher." taught us that Heaven and Hell were not places, but states of existence for the soul. Closeness to God is described as Heaven, and being far from Him is Hell. Thus we can also experience that sort of heavenly or hellish state of existence both here on earth visibly, and within ourselves invisibly!

Knowing the historical and etymological terms of the words generally translated as 'Hell' such as Gehenna, Sheol, and Tartarus, I can no longer prescribe to some literal place in the Afterlife called 'Hell'. Likewise, just as the Christadelphians teach, 'Satan' and 'devil' being words to mean 'adversary, opposition', I no longer believe in a literal personification of evil.

However, I put my faith in Christ, and I know that He was, and is, and that we are to bring forth His Kingdom of peace, love, happiness, justice, beauty, mercy, and hope!


God bless!

Hello Rahel,
thank you for your wonderful thread and thank you for pointing to the importance of a good catechism.

You wrote: "I no longer believe in a literal personification of evil."
I still do.
For example there is the testimonial of the scripture:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities,
against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places."
(Ephesians 6:12)

Evil is the lack of good.
But the lack of is not only lacking but is also some kind of debt, corruption, privation of the good.
For example there is no fight in justice versus injustice.
But there  is only justice and the lack of. Injustice isn't something in itself, its just a lack of corruption and privation of justice.
Those who do injustice lack of doing the good deed by free will. Its a corruption, privation of justice.

For me the devil is a persona created from god, but lacking everything that is good.
So the devil is some kind of personal mediator of the complete lack of good, of evil.
A Person without any goodness in it. I truly think this is not only thinkable, this is real.

In theological terms i consider the devil as a persona without substance mediating complete privation of the good.

So i also think there are good and bad spiritual beings around, like angels or bad demons. And they fight for our soul.

May god the merciful lord bless and save you all.
Angelats