I've been recently trying to come to terms with myself.  I'm not exactly sure where I sit in the transgender spectrum.  I've had questions about my gender identity for most of my life.  I was born male, and I've been overweight for as long as I can remember.  Growing up with gynecomastia, and being young and not really knowing any better, I actually wondered if I might be intersex, since I had a feminine looking chest, and the lower male anatomy.  That was not the case however, I was just a "normal" overweight male boy.  I got into cross dressing while I was growing up, mainly women's underwear.  I was never attracted to anything lacy or overly "girly", I always preferred the more basic androgynous styles.  I've also never been overly attracted to the normal bra styles, I've always preferred racerback sports bras.  I did find the cross dressing to be sexually arousing, though now it just feels normal.  Puberty came and went.  That also didn't help my gender identity confusion.  I'm 26 now, and I have no chest hair or back hair, and my arm hair is pretty light.  My facial hair seems to be missing in some spots, and doesn't appear to have ever fully grown in, so I've never been able to have a proper beard.  I've also never felt overly enthused about my male genitalia.  When not aroused, my penis is pretty much non-existant.  Aroused, it does grow a decent amount, but still seems rather small.  I really feel like when I came off of the assembly line, I should have been rejected by quality control, for being improperly assembled.  That said, I'm not really complaining about the lack the hair, I actually find most body hair unattractive, so I shave my legs and underarms.  I'm also considering having my facial hair removed, probably by laser.  Overall, I have a really hard time seeing myself as male.  On the other hand, I'm not really attracted to most of the "girly" stuff.  I don't like heels, they seem like some sort of medieval torture device.  I'm not attracted to anything frilly or lacy.  If I'd have to pick a female everyday outfit to wear, it would probably be something athletic, like running shorts and racerback tank top. 

Here in lies my issue, I'm not happy being a male, but I'm not sure I'd be happy living life as a female either, yet I often wonder what life as a female would be like.  The thought of transitioning is both exciting and absolutely terrifying at the same time.  I've been dropping weight pretty steadily for the past 4 months.  I'm about 1/3 of the way to my goal of 175.  I've lived with having boobs for quite a while now (I think I'm around a B cup currently), and while at one point I really wanted to get rid of them, now I'd think I'd miss them if they were gone, which may be inevitable if I continue to lose weight like I am.

My question to all of you is what should I do?  I think seeing a therapist is definitely something that I'll need to do at some point, probably sooner rather than later.  Maybe I just have a skewed sense of what being MTF really means.  Do people ever transition MTF but align more androgynous?  Part of me really wants to transition, but the other part of me is concerned that I'd be making a very large mistake.  I'm a bit jealous of those of you who just know that you should have been female.  Maybe I just need to accept that gender isn't exactly binary, and that there is a place in the middle. 

Anyways, I think I've rambled on for long enough now.  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated,

~Zoë

Someone can be a woman without being the "girly" type, so that's a possibility.

We also have a fairly decent number of androgynes, people who need not fall into the category of male or female (or whose expressions do not fit into those roles).  You may fall into that group.

No matter how complicated things may seem, it is important for you to remain open to who you truly are.  You don't have to compromise your feelings so you fit neatly into a certain identity.  You may have to adopt a role to deal with society at times, but don't think that this role will define who are you.  Embrace whatever complex sense of self you are and who you feel you're supposed to be, even if it contradicts your expectations for who men, women, and other people are supposed to be.

Zoë,
  I hadn't heard dysphoria put in such a concise manner:

QuoteI really feel like when I came off of the assembly line, I should have been rejected by quality control, for being improperly assembled.

It made me chuckle a little, NOT at you, but there in one sentence you summed up a very complex set of feelings I have had for as long as I can remember. Besides, humor has been a staple for me just to get through many-a-day.
  You sound like a prime candidate for professional help, and not in a bad way. Therapists are trained to help you find the answers to your questions and to find the questions you haven't thought of. A decent therapist will be able to help you find where on the spectrum you lie, and more importantly, help you come to terms with that.

Seek help and you shall find it,
Christy.

Zoë,

  Well put!  If I would've transitioned back in 1977, I might have been quite girly.  Since I started transitioning late in life, those girly thoughts had subsided a bit.  As the song goes: "Clowns to the right of me, Jokers to the left, and here I am, stuck in the middle with you"!  I am lucky to still be alive whilst others from my time period did the bad stuff such as drugs, alcohol, suicide, and homosexual experimenting that caused them to lose or shortened their lives to try to deny this condition.  Transitioning in the 1970's wasn't pretty.  You were better off gay. 

  joelene

Have you talked to a doctor about the physical symptoms that you have described that lead you to believe you might be intersexed?  Perhaps, you should actually see an endocrinologist before you see a therapist...maybe you really do have a hormonal issue going on that needs to be fixed.  I'm not talking about transitioning-type HRT...I'm talking about just normalizing the way a doctor thinks you should be normalized.  Here is my rationale...if you actually have an imbalance, it could be effecting the way you think.  I think before you make lifelong decisions about your gender, you should be absolutely positive that there is no other reason that you feel the way that you do.  I'd say be upfront with the endocrinologist about how you feel. 

I'd say make sure you are doing everything that you can to be healthy and explore who you are with a clear conscience of the possibility of any underlying issues.  I'd say try going out to a trans-friendly place while dressed...see how you feel about it.  Once you gain more confidence, go out en femme with just the general public...see how you feel.  I'd do that for a while before jumping to hormones, as hormones take a while to work anyway.  The old saying about hormones is that they cause small changes over a large amount of time...thus, this is even how hormonal disorders go undiagnosed/slip under the radar.  If it were me, I would do what I could do NOW...see a doctor, see a therapist, see how you feel when you are presenting as a female to the general public.  I feel like if it were me, doing those things would help me make a better decision about how I saw my future me.

I started really late in life and was "one hot male"... I actually had a good life as a male with none of the depressions, migranes and zero sucide thoughts. Yet, I knew from a young age I would prefer to have been a female. I thought like a female, when calm, but when male ego situation arose my high T kicked in and I became an agro male. I got away as being a personality and being flamboyant. So here I am ready to retire and these feelings have persisted and I knew that I did not want to leave this earth as a male. I consulted therapists for over a year, saw and endo, talked to my GP and started HRT 3 months ago. The mental changes have been wonderful - so good to feel empathy yet I dont see myself acting girly and have discussed this with my therapist and I now know in my spirit that I can be a female thats not so girly and fufill my destiny. The change is very different from what I have read in this forum with younger mtf and I also can see that many older people experience the same way as me. Reading the forum I am sad that I did not have the opportunity to change earlier but "its never too late" as so many here attest.

Quote from: MaddestScientist on July 01, 2013, 11:21:14 PM
Have you talked to a doctor about the physical symptoms that you have described that lead you to believe you might be intersexed?  Perhaps, you should actually see an endocrinologist before you see a therapist...maybe you really do have a hormonal issue going on that needs to be fixed.  I'm not talking about transitioning-type HRT...I'm talking about just normalizing the way a doctor thinks you should be normalized.  Here is my rationale...if you actually have an imbalance, it could be effecting the way you think.  I think before you make lifelong decisions about your gender, you should be absolutely positive that there is no other reason that you feel the way that you do.  I'd say be upfront with the endocrinologist about how you feel. 

That might not be a bad idea.  It would be nice to know if I did have a hormonal imbalance or not.

Quote from: MaddestScientist on July 01, 2013, 11:21:14 PM
I'd say make sure you are doing everything that you can to be healthy and explore who you are with a clear conscience of the possibility of any underlying issues.  I'd say try going out to a trans-friendly place while dressed...see how you feel about it.  Once you gain more confidence, go out en femme with just the general public...see how you feel.  I'd do that for a while before jumping to hormones, as hormones take a while to work anyway.  The old saying about hormones is that they cause small changes over a large amount of time...thus, this is even how hormonal disorders go undiagnosed/slip under the radar.  If it were me, I would do what I could do NOW...see a doctor, see a therapist, see how you feel when you are presenting as a female to the general public.  I feel like if it were me, doing those things would help me make a better decision about how I saw my future me.

I am in no rush to start HRT.  It scares the crap out of me right now.  Choosing to transition is such a huge decision, and its one that I'm not taking lightly.  If I would choose to transition at some point, there is a fairly good chance I'd lose my family.  That right there is enough incentive for me to make sure that I'm 110% sure about this before moving forward with anything like HRT.  I have a long ways to go before I think I'd ever be ready to make that decision.  I have thought about trying to present as female though, for some of the same reasons that have been listed here, but I'm not sure that I'm ready to start that yet.  If I can maintain my current rate of weight loss (~10lbs / month), I should be down to a "normal" range within a year.  It would also help if I started to grow my hair out, which is probably also going to be a long and slow process.  Those 2 things would probably make my life a bit easier on the passing front.

I'd also like to thank every one that has provided feedback.  I really appreciate your help.

I think I've found a good therapist to go to.  I just need to bite the bullet and schedule an appointment.  While I know talking with a therapist is something I need to do, and will ultimately make my life better, taking that first step is proving to be a lot harder than I imagined.  Not going to therapy means I'm still trying to hide and suppress my feelings, but going to therapy means I'm a step closer to the possibility of transitioning (did I mention this scares the crap out of me?).  Part of me really wants to just wake up and feel "normal", and not have to consider the possibilities of who I am.  I think I'm just scared of finding out the truth about myself.  I'm afraid of losing my parents, and the rest of my family in the process.  While I say that I'm scared of transitioning, its not the transitioning that scares me, its the consequences that come with it.  I think its coming down to what is going to be more important, trying to suppress my dysphoria for the sake of not losing my family, or deal with my dysphoria now for the sake of myself.  I think what scares me even more is if I would continue to suppress this.  I've read a number of stories people have shared on here about how they hid their feelings and suppressed things their entire lives, only for them to not be able to deal with it anymore, and it becomes a really big issue.  They have families, some of which get torn apart in the process.  That right there REALLY scares the crap out of me.  I don't want to wake up, 20+ years down the road, have a wife and kids, and then come to the realization that this gender dysphoria thing was really an issue.  An issue that should have been dealt with long before I ever even thought about getting into a relationship and starting a family of my own. 

I think this is what getting stuck between a rock and a hard place feels like...

I scheduled an appointment with a therapist today, its for Monday afternoon. 

Just got home from my first therapy session.  I think it was a good first step.  She told me that she usually has a pretty good hunch about people after the first session (said she has worked with hundreds of transgender people in the past), and that she was not sure what to make of me so far.  I thought that it was interesting that she brought up a point about how the brain does things to protect ourselves, without us knowing that it is happening.  For instance if there is something that you want to do, but that you know is not possible (due to how painful the process will be), the brain will try to shield you from it.  So in the case of dysphoria, you know that something is not quite right, but the brain can try to hide things from you so that you don't arrive at the truth about yourself, as a way of protecting you from what might happen.  I'm completely paraphrasing there, and I could have gotten some things wrong, its all becoming a large blur at this point.  Point being, I have a lot to work through...

That sounds about right... this is why I have such a hard time with the way that the younger and more radical trans* communities talk about dysphoria and how it affects people. It's definitely no black and white. The human brain, especially one that's suffered trauma, has an incredible capacity to deceive itself and hide its own distress to the point that it doesn't even show up on our conscious radar. Unhappiness can go undetected for decades.

I hope this continues to work out for you c:

You might like reading/posting in the androgyne forum. But I have friends/acquaintances who are MTF since our support group is mixed. A couple of them are rather on the butch looking side. Strangely they find it easier passing like that but it isn't why they do it. I don't think either of them have ever worn heels (which actually ARE medieval torture devices-- but perhaps I am prejudiced). You don't have to medically transition at all, there are a number of different paths you can take and it is really up to you.

I'm going the "other way" but I went thru a very long (seemingly) period of searching. I started out feeling I was androgyne. I was very anxious. I ended up transitioning, but there are plenty of people who do not. I think you are doing the right thing going to therapy. Don't know if I confused my therapist initially. Might be a fun question if he would answer this.

--Jay

Quote from: ZoëKäsatseng on July 08, 2013, 03:45:47 PM
Just got home from my first therapy session.  I think it was a good first step. 

Very good, Zoe.