I thought I'd share my own observations for other people who may be having similar experience to me.
so often, we read stories of how somebody came to the conclusion they were transgender etc. so often we hear talk of depression and suicidal tendencies. But perhaps there are trans people who are not in deep depression or suicidal? some people who for example have learnt to cope with negative feelings and either push them aside, treat them as unimportant or focus on other things, or even block those feelings completely. these people may live a 'normal' life, but perhaps they never fully blossom.

my own focus right now is sexuality. not who I am attracted to, but how my experience of sex effects me. pornography has never been an issue for me, I watch a moderate amount of porn, not a lot, but enough to get me by. I don't really enjoy the male sex drive to be honest and I wish i could turn it off. it is such an inconvenience and sometimes it takes over completely. I watch straight porn, man and woman, pretty pedestrian, nothing too kinky. I do note, that I prefer media that is passionate and shows true connection between the two people. but I've never really questioned, who exactly it is I am identifying with in the video. now more recently I question who it is I identify with. the man or the woman. tough question because i can't seem to give a good answer. well something that may be relevant. I always like to play as the female character in video games. I often love to zoom in on the character and acknowledge that those are 'my' breasts, and that is 'my' butt.  perhaps when I watch porn, I am identifying with the woman?
Well when I am with a woman in real life, it's all different. I don't have the same rhythm I guess... when she's ready to get it on, I'm just not there. as soon as she starts focusing on my man parts, it's like the passion disappears, I bring her back to cuddling and kissing etc, and it's a big turn on again, but when it comes to the 'main event' the parts just don't perform as they need to.
The only times when I have ever actually reached the finish line, it was like an assault on the senses.. the girl I was with pushed all the right buttons so that my body responded but my emotions just weren't there. it was very unsatisfying.
I don't hate my genitals etc, they do the job that they are there for, but I think... I just don't really have an intimate relationship with my own parts and I don't seem to enjoy them being paid attention to. 

something else I focus on is dressing up.. now don't get me wrong, I don't have an overwhelming desire to put on dresses etc. I would just like the option to dress up nice and feel like it is 'correct'.

then there is figure.. I don't detest my body. I love my body, it is a wonderful thing that does its best for me.  I just think that perhaps my chest should be smaller and my legs a bit wider. I also think I should have less body  and facial hair.

these things don't cause me huge distress and I live my life b=day by day and have friends and can have fun... well sort of have fun... well i'm not so sure about that to be completely honest.
I suppose when i do feel that i truly enjoy something, I get a very unpleasant sickly feeling.
I also feel like I am not a person that people would enjoy spending time with.
so maybe that is depression and I jsut don't realise it. but I don't feel depressed. I feel happy on many occasions. I feel elated when I lsiten to my favourite music etc.

so I think that....
what I want to share here is that I do not believe that a person needs to feel suicidal to be trans or to accept that they are trans. I just think that a person needs to consider what is truly important to their happiness. instead of focusing on moving away from depression, for some it may be more about moving towards true happiness and self love/appreciation.

Quotewhat I want to share here is that I do not believe that a person needs to feel suicidal to be trans or to accept that they are trans.

No feels suicidal to be trans, they feel suicidal because of the non acceptance, inability to exist as themselves, and bullying received from being trans. Big difference.

sorry, that's not the first time i've done that.
I need to learn to write that in a better way.
what I mean is... if a person does not feel suicidal (like from being under pressure or feeling dissonance or whatever issues are stopping them from being who they are) it doesn't mean that they aren't trans.

OK, now that makes a whole lot of sense.

Quote from: jker86 on July 21, 2013, 03:59:47 PM
sorry, that's not the first time i've done that.
I need to learn to write that in a better way.
what I mean is... if a person does not feel suicidal (like from being under pressure or feeling dissonance or whatever issues are stopping them from being who they are) it doesn't mean that they aren't trans.

Of course . Do You question Yourself being trans? Maybe You are, maybe You aren't... Nobody is going to answer this question for You - You will have to look deep into Yourself to find the answer. We, others - we can help You by asking You questions, but the rest is entirely Your responsibility . I am getting impression that You feel like You are standing at the crossroads now. In a sense, You are . But let me tell this - even if You were suicidal at some point of Your life, or whole of it - even then You would be questioning Yourself being trans while standing at these crossroads. Well, probably - maybe You wouldn't Nothing can be 100% sure in this life, especially if You are trans .

Yes, there seems to be a good number of people in the trans* community who are trying to foist a certain narrative upon everyone. I've seen people flat-out say that if you don't suffer from severe depression, and you don't hate yourself and your body, then you're not trans*.

I mean, it's just talk like that that makes me feel out of place in trans* circles because I have a lot of issues that are much worse and have nothing to do with my gender. They're kind of top priority, and the last thing I need is to be told that something's wrong if I don't have even more to cope with and heal from.

Knowing quite a few TS's that transitioned to full time I have to say that there is a big correlation between transitioning and suicide. Often it is a case of "Transition is just another word for nothing left to loose"; My apologies to Janis Joplin. When faced with either offing yourself or taking on the trans beast well.... taking on the trans beast means I still have options. Death is final

Do you have to get to that point? No. I have no doubt I am trans and felt that way since about the age of four. I loosely put myself in the non-op TS class. (Baring a multi-million lottery winning ticket) I am somewhat happy about the life I have been able to make for myself. I also still have a dream that someday I can life full-time as a woman.

Quote from: JoanneB on July 21, 2013, 05:58:55 PM
Knowing quite a few TS's that transitioned to full time I have to say that there is a big correlation between transitioning and suicide. Often it is a case of "Transition is just another word for nothing left to loose"; My apologies to Janis Joplin. When faced with either offing yourself or taking on the trans beast well.... taking on the trans beast means I still have options. Death is final

Do you have to get to that point? No. I have no doubt I am trans and felt that way since about the age of four. I loosely put myself in the non-op TS class. (Baring a multi-million lottery winning ticket) I am somewhat happy about the life I have been able to make for myself. I also still have a dream that someday I can life full-time as a woman.

Good points.

Also, someone who may not feel depressed at 20 or 30 may feel differently at 40 or 50 or older. There are a lot of people who transition in middle age and beyond with suicidal feelings. I'm guessing they must not always have been that desperate or they wouldn't have survived that long.
Of course, not saying that every trans person will feel that way given enough time; just that this thing tends to get worse.

I know a number of upbeat and optimistic transgender people.  Depression and suicide are not infrequent but certainly are not required stops on the punchcard to get to TRANSYLVANIA.  My apologies to the Romanians and early 17th century american historians

Prior to accepting my trans self I was fairly ok coping with life but my intimate world and identity were beginning to collapse under the unacknowledged weight of repression and denial.  For many of us there is an indescribable joy and relief in effectively dealing with our dysphoria.  There really seems to be a broad continuum or spectrum of experience and expectations here.  I agree that many of us may have other priorities that do not include gender.  By this age I bring along some expensive baggage no matter where I am going and am glad to still have strong enough arms for my weight:)

Quote from: Fitter Admin on July 21, 2013, 06:16:36 PM
Also, someone who may not feel depressed at 20 or 30 may feel differently at 40 or 50 or older. There are a lot of people who transition in middle age and beyond with suicidal feelings. I'm guessing they must not always have been that desperate or they wouldn't have survived that long.
Of course, not saying that every trans person will feel that way given enough time; just that this thing tends to get worse.

wow, I felt like I was hit by a truck after reading this.
I never even imagined what I might feel like in ten years and most likely still being single and never having a satisfactory sex life. I guess feeling like I feel now, and then pushing it away and repressing that for another ten years.. that might drive me to a dark place. never realised. 
I guess I'm very lucky. I'm currently 33, look 25 and IMO quite pretty. my features are not very masculine, I have met a few girls who have bigger hands than me. at this stage, it is good that I am considering this seriously as in 10 years i might not be so fortunate.


Tessa, that really made me laugh, I love it! Transylvania!!  I actually LMAO.

Emily, I like the crossroads analogy. it's nice
main thing I want to do is check my hormone balance. I am convinced I have an imbalance as it is. I actually know for a fact my brother has an imbalance, he has been tested. so whatever happens, I think I may benefit from HRT, what I'll do is to let them know that I would prefer a more female balance. I can always gauge how I feel about it before unreversable changes.

I have always loved life- irrespective of discovering my trans-ness.

Ever since being out to myself and beginning transition, though, life has quickly been becoming much more valuable and fulfilling in ways I never even expected.

Life can be so much more for transgender people... It can be groovy and extraordinary due to the truly individualized paths we must take in order to simply "be ourselves". It's not easy or hard, it's just a different way. And with something different comes all sorts of opportunities to find something special in our lives. We are in the BEST position really, and I truly wish that every trans person could appreciate life in that regard.

Well I don't think you have to be suicidal but in order to be diagnosed with GID, don't you have to be experiencing some level of distress. I mean the D is GID stands for dysphoria which means a state of being significantly unwell or unhappy. Does that have to mean suicidal? No. But I identify as transsexual not transgender. It may be different for transgender people. For me, it's not about clothes or being "who I am" it is about correcting what I know is wrong. I feel like something went horribbly wrong in utero and I developed as male when I was supposed to develop as female. And it is not so much about correcting my gender as it is my sex. It is all about the physical sex charecteristics. I will not feel complete until SRS. And yeah I realize that I will never be actually female but that is as close as I can get and that's what I aim for.

I guess it comes down to I have had severe empotional problems since I was 6 and if there was anything else I could do to stop this I would. I have prolly tried it to. Suicide. check. 10s of therapists check. Heroin. Check. Nothing works. Right now is prolly the closest I've ever felt to being somewhat comfortable in my skin.

I just thin when I read some comments like this that being trans is no big deal when I am heroin addict because of it is really invalidating and makes me feel awful. Like I am some kind of bad guy just for fitting in some narrative that I barely knew existed before and didn't think was a big deal. I actually get very turned off by how political being trans seems to be. I consider a medical condition yet it has this political component. I won't lie it annoys me and the people who make it political aggravate me because they making my life harder then neccesary.

Quote from: Jennygirl on July 21, 2013, 09:52:13 PM
I have always loved life- irrespective of discovering my trans-ness.

Ever since being out to myself and beginning transition, though, life has quickly been becoming much more valuable and fulfilling in ways I never even expected.

Life can be so much more for transgender people... It can be groovy and extraordinary due to the truly individualized paths we must take in order to simply "be ourselves". It's not easy or hard, it's just a different way. And with something different comes all sorts of opportunities to find something special in our lives. We are in the BEST position really, and I truly wish that every trans person could appreciate life in that regard.

I think it's great you feel this way but I don't think I will ever really get over the hurt of being born male and never being able to conceive and always being different. I just want to be normal.

Quote from: Lo on July 21, 2013, 05:30:06 PM
Yes, there seems to be a good number of people in the trans* community who are trying to foist a certain narrative upon everyone. I've seen people flat-out say that if you don't suffer from severe depression, and you don't hate yourself and your body, then you're not trans*.

I mean, it's just talk like that that makes me feel out of place in trans* circles because I have a lot of issues that are much worse and have nothing to do with my gender. They're kind of top priority, and the last thing I need is to be told that something's wrong if I don't have even more to cope with and heal from.

I actually feel it is excactly the opposite. I feel like I get made out to be an elitist just for having the life experience I have. My life has been horrible. You prolly wouldn't believe me if I told you. But I really don't think there is a narrative. People accused me of that and I really feel like they were trying to justify their transitioning and it was total projection. I can't help that I fit some criteria of having expereinced GID since age 6. I just think it is unfair to be called out for something I can't change and certainly don't want. I hate being trans and just wish I was cis. In fact, I feel out of place in trans circles because I know very few people who have always known and if you are this way you get called an elitist. It's unfair. Point blank. And it is invalidating. I actually expected when I first started coming to trans places to finally meet people like me and to finally be able to relate to people and all I have found is that even here I'm a weirdo.

That being said, I do agree you don;t have to have had my crappy life to be trans. Far form it. I just think you should have to expereince some level of discomfort with your gender to have GID.

I'm not trying to offend anyone and hop I didn't but I just sometimes feel really invalidated when people act like being trans isn't a big thing and that transitioning is just some thing people do. For me it is the only thing. And not a choice. The only alternative is suidice or heroin. And i've tried both. And the latter is the only reason I made it to 30.

I was not depressed, but I have been thru severe depression in my life. I didn't associate it with being trans. TBH, I didn't know what to associate it with. I think that I never felt things were right somehow, and now I do. But I wasn't suicidal. But yes, it's a big deal. I think though everyone adjusts differently. And some people have reactions where their make-up means they react to thing in a more extreme way than others. So I think it's perfectly likely for some people to be suicidal and some people to actually kind of adjust to not being depressed. It doesn't mean the people who are suicidal are more trans or that the people who adjust are better somehow. Just that people are all different and have different reactions.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on July 21, 2013, 10:37:28 PM
I was not depressed, but I have been thru severe depression in my life. I didn't associate it with being trans. TBH, I didn't know what to associate it with. I think that I never felt things were right somehow, and now I do. But I wasn't suicidal. But yes, it's a big deal. I think though everyone adjusts differently. And some people have reactions where their make-up means they react to thing in a more extreme way than others. So I think it's perfectly likely for some people to be suicidal and some people to actually kind of adjust to not being depressed. It doesn't mean the people who are suicidal are more trans or that the people who adjust are better somehow. Just that people are all different and have different reactions.

--Jay

Heck yes. Totally. Tons of people are unhappy with themselves. Some people will find a way to be unhappy with themselves no matter what- trans or not.

Discomfort is part of life for everyone. If we were totally comfortable with our current situation, there would be no where to go & nothing to do... We would not survive as an organism. Life is always somewhat of a battle any way you look at it. Some people's battles during life are more pronounced or prolonged due to being either physiologically or psychologically not as adept to handling the cards they've been dealt. Still, everyone's got things they will need to do in life that they at first reject and have to grow from. My point is: even the people with the "good life" have it hard sometimes just like everyone else.

I think for me I'm soooo much happier now that I'm transitioning. But I do wish I was more like you Jenny. You have such a positive attitude and upbeat outlook. It really admire it so so much. Hopefully in time I will be able to put a lot of my issues behind me and try to be like that. But yeah I guess you can be kinda comfortable in life and still need to transition. I think it is kinda hard sometimes when you get depressed to see those things and to relate to that type of upbeatness. Though I really do want to.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 22, 2013, 01:35:19 AM
I think for me I'm soooo much happier now that I'm transitioning. But I do wish I was more like you Jenny. You have such a positive attitude and upbeat outlook. It really admire it so so much. Hopefully in time I will be able to put a lot of my issues behind me and try to be like that. But yeah I guess you can be kinda comfortable in life and still need to transition. I think it is kinda hard sometimes when you get depressed to see those things and to relate to that type of upbeatness. Though I really do want to.

Joanna that is really sweet of you to say!! Thank you I hope that my words here can somehow help you and others to find an upbeat attitude for themselves as well. Moar happy people, yes! That is what we want!

I feel like half the battle is accepting that in order to be happy with life you have to be okay not being happy at times and not let it wear you down too much. I just trust that bad times will pass, and soon enough I figure out what I need to do to move on. It took me 20 years to figure the big one out (I started having dysphoric feelings when I was 8 ). In the meantime I found ways to cope that were both good and bad, but mostly good I guess.

I still had my fair share of anxiety and depression, but even in my worst moments (completely agoraphobic w/ 4 panic attacks a day) I knew deep down that I would conquer it- and I did. Alone. It was by far the cruddiest year of my life, but also easily the one of the most essential in terms of what I learned. I don't regret going through it at all.

Quote from: jker86 on July 21, 2013, 08:13:54 PM
I never even imagined what I might feel like in ten years and most likely still being single and never having a satisfactory sex life. I guess feeling like I feel now, and then pushing it away and repressing that for another ten years.. that might drive me to a dark place. never realised. 

Oh, be warned. Thinking about Yourself in 10-20-30 years and realising that You might still be a man then, getting older, sadder, balding and such... Now THIS might be the turning point and get You into suicidal mode. When I was in my teens I had no information about transsexuality and GD and thus I had absolutely no idea WTF was going inside of me and the source of that constant sadness and alienating inside. Yet, I was toying with the idea of suicide, but that went away after I made one "exploring" attempt, which was never found out anyway.
Yet, when I was in my beginning steps of transition, there was one moment when I felt like nobody else except of me wanted this to happen - I kind of sensed that everybody around me was slowly drifting away, I felt unwanted and that I was creating additional problems for those close to me. What made things worse, was that at the same time I felt like finally my dream is coming true, I was seeing light at the end of the tunnel, but I could not get there. So I decided that the best outcome would be to erase myself from their existance and there was only one way to accomplish that. So, although I was not that much suicidal before, but not being able to transition, pretty quickly got me there. Besides, knowing statistics and that narrative, which sort of obliges You.. it all added its weight for my decision.

Joanna, I'm so sorry to bring up this subject and any of my comments that have made you feel invalidated. I absolutely think that it's a huge issue for anyone involved and in many/most cases, it is the biggest issue.  I mean, this kind of issue relates to pro-creation and that is kinda the whole purpose of life for most people, to produce offspring and have a family etc.  I'm generalising of course. what I was meaning to say is that while it is a huge issue, it doesn't necessarily mean that a person has to be at tipping point.

Jennygirl, this is so weird, I relate to what you write so much. I also like to carry a positive attitude along with me, and a lot of what you wrote sounds exactly like my own experience. to top it all off, the name I had in mind that I thin I want to use is Jennifer. 

Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 22, 2013, 01:35:19 AM
I think for me I'm soooo much happier now that I'm transitioning. But I do wish I was more like you Jenny. You have such a positive attitude and upbeat outlook. It really admire it so so much. Hopefully in time I will be able to put a lot of my issues behind me and try to be like that. But yeah I guess you can be kinda comfortable in life and still need to transition. I think it is kinda hard sometimes when you get depressed to see those things and to relate to that type of upbeatness. Though I really do want to.

I think if you want to be positive that is a great first step. just wanting to be more positive is the first part.  the next bit is to try and always find the good in situations that seem bad. it may be difficult, but there is always some good in a situation. if you can't see it, try and project it so as to have potential positive outcomes. like a really bad argument with somebody, may result in a keener understanding and potentially a closer friendship.

Yeah I have to agree with some of the people hear. I know from what I remember I was not really depressed but that be because I really did not think. Let alone think about being trans or my penis. I was always out of sight out of mine.
But I have noticed that some trans people are really depressed even more so pre op. I could never really understand why but I know they were more complexed and cerebral than me

I've never been depressed other than back in the late 70's during the Carter administration when the Fed kicked interest rates so high that mortgage interest was at 19%. I was a builder with a million dollars in standing inventory that no-one could afford to buy, I went bankrupt and lost everything. I was depressed, on my knees every morning in tears until I took inventory of the more important things like good health, family and those things that the system couldn't strip away from me. Being trans is nothing to be despondent about as long as one has a plan and is making forward momentum. For me it has always been a happy and optimistic experience.