Calmragemusic and others,

You do NOT need a paypal account to donate or subscribe. Just click the appropriate link and have a credit or debit card. It really is just that easy.

Don't have $10 or $20 dollars? Pay 5. Don't always have enough for a recurring subscription? Then subscribe the months when you can.

Susan has made it very easy for people to help with what they can in any way they can.

I honor those who say the will contribute to keep the site open...Jamie expressed that the site will remain open but will be trimmed back. I have only been on site for 2 weeks and read so much about different ways people see themselves and the way others see them. I have transitioned more these past few weeks that I ever thought possible and look forward to starting my life fresh again with the support and understanding I have here!!!

Quote from: learningtolive on July 27, 2013, 08:41:21 PM
In the grand scheme of things 5 or 10 dollars a month is not going to break most people.  If you have stability,  tou should be able to make it.  For those who don't,  it's more complex.  I have money saved up, but not really anything I can spare at the moment.   I don't buy games, books or go out for lunch.  I use what I have as an investment for my future.   Transitioning hasn't been cheap for me and I have other expenses coming in that have hurt.  I am 24 and searching for meaningful employment, but haven't found it yet.  I may not be able to live at home in the future, because my family does not approve, and will likely have to pay around  $1000 monthly for rent.  These are expensive costs for me.  Besides that I have applications fir grad school to pay which will cost me around $500 dollars.  So you are right that the cist here isn't much, but some of us can't do it right now.  I'm not being stingy.   I have no money to spare.  Keep in mind 5 dollars is close to an hourly wage for many Americans.   If you don't live that reality,  good for you.  But try to empathize with those who do.

Having said that, when or if I can ever contribute monetarily I will.  But I can't add more on my plate even though its a small amount because I do not have it.  Im in a shaky place right now.  Again,  you need help with volunteering or site assistance,  I will do what you need.  But I don't like being seen as cheap or unhelpful when I don't have the ability to donate money.  There are others here who feel the same.  Give us the benefit of the doubt.   


As I said before,  this site is worth that, but I'm not in the position to donate at the moment.   I can help other ways, but this something I can't do.

That's alright.  I'm paying it forward.  You're smart.  You'll get employed.  Someday, down the road, you will be able to.  That's what community is about.

Thanks Cindy and Susan, and everyone else who made this site possible over the years. 

While I am also short on funds, just like others here, working a job that doesn't pay much and trying to pay for school and so on, I'm more than willing to cut a little in my normal routine to help contribute to the site. While I am aware not everyone can cut their budgets any more, I am happy to consolidate a few errands to save a few bucks on gas which I can then use to donate to the site. Since coming here I've learned a lot about myself, about the T in LGBT, met a lot of friends, and had a lot of fun in the last few months. I also would rather have Susan's ad-free, since I normally avoid sites that have a lot of ads in them since they annoy me and seem to slow down the site.

No one here is trying to make anyone who absolutely can't afford to donate anything feel bad or thinking less of you, but sometimes those who can afford need a little encouragement (anyone here listen to National Public Radio or watch public television? Now, they're good at guilt-tripping you  ) and reminders.

I'm not sure what my job status will be in one year. Either I'll be informed that I have a long-term position with some job security and bennies, or I will be in deep tunafish and unable to cover my basic expenses without unemployment insurance and the modest savings I've accrued by being conservative and stingy these past few years.

With such uncertainty, I'm understandably leery of contributing much, and, indeed, I contributed only a token amount when I found out that the donation portal was up and running.

But this year, I could afford to buy new glasses (on insurance, but my portion wasn't cheap), adopt a new cat who requires expensive prescription food, and pay for extensive repairs on my car (with more on the way later this year). I still go to therapy every week and have my own place with no roommates. Except for the cat, I consider all of these things to be necessities at the moment. And the cat...well, he desperately needed a home after being at the adoption agency for over a year. People just don't tend to adopt animals with health issues. So I felt that I had to adopt him. It was the right thing to do. Call him a necessity.

Now I'm rethinking my definitions. Susan's Place keeps me afloat between therapy visits...so this place is a necessity. I've just gotten used to the idea of its being free. At the moment, I'm actually making a bit more than I spend. I'm saving up for the possible crisis next year, but if I do lose my job, I'll need Susan's even more than I do now. I'm better off right now than a lot of y'all. So I guess I'll make another donation to make up for some of you who can't.

Quote from: Oriah on July 27, 2013, 07:12:07 PM
Just testing the waters.  If more people feel that way, I'd gladly move on.  I mean, even if the site remained free, but I'd be looked down on for being unable to donate, I wouldn't want to stick around.  I don't want to stick around somewhere I'm not welcome, even if I'm still permitted to be there.

I think, opinions are mixed on this one. That's the reason many projects break down just the time they could start to make money.

That said I hope it's different here and nothing breaks down. While I understand the people who paid until now (and emptied their bank accounts for it), I also understand people like Oriah who are broke and have things with higher priority. Currently I loose about 40 bucks a day due to my income being a little more than what I have to pay on a regular basis; paying for food nets the rest and I'm loosing money each month.

I know that I will be paid more starting Feb 2014. That's what my labor agreement tells me. I have to somehow survive to that point because starting then I will have a net plus each month. That will make my bank account become fluid again with each day.

Additionally being in this situation we are in comes with many costs. Given that we are here because that's almost top priority for us (as we even risk loosing our family in the process), I bet everyone understands that the forum is less of a priority than transitioning itself. Paying for childs and whatever is needed by the law should have an even higher priority given that either minors depend on it or our own freedom and safety.

That leaves me with pretty much things with a higher priority. I'd also judge nobody for having this or that with a higher priority, too. That means, some are able to pay and some aren't. If that means this place is going to collapse, so be it. It would be sad, but I wouldn't encourage anybody to loose home, job, childs or family to save a forum on the internet. Even for this place here it isn't worth it.

I totally understand why this thread was started. But I also understand that it may upset people; but I just hope, that anger will fade and the forum will be saved.

TL;DR
From my point of view it seems totally okay, that the admins want to get some bucks for saving the forum while it's also okay that some users aren't able to pay.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on July 27, 2013, 09:46:53 PM
It's important to always do what you can.
You are never required to do any more than you can.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I am honestly really surprised (and slightly irked) at how many people are defensive  when donations are mentioned and get all up in arms about why they can't donate.

If you can't afford it, don't donate! No one is going to think any less of you. I think Cindy just made this topic to demonstrate just how much it costs to run this site, for those who CAN and WANT to donate. It's not a requirement, Susan has left many areas of this site free for those who need to access it but can't afford to access the Just for Us section.

I mean sheesh.

My post was to motivate and it seems to have helped little bit.

If you don't have money don't donate. I don't want you too.

Some of you know what I have done and I will continue to do that.

Susan and I will keep the site going for all members. It is her site and her mission is to help people.

I will keep supporting her because I'm also driven to help people less fortunate than I.

But if you can help please do. How much and how little does not matter. Everything helps.

And of course helping run the site as a staff member is also essential.

And arguing and bickering does not help me in anyway what so ever. So don't.

Quote from: Ketchup Packet on July 28, 2013, 02:19:59 AM
If you can't afford it, don't donate! No one is going to think any less of you. I think Cindy just made this topic to demonstrate just how much it costs to run this site, for those who CAN and WANT to donate. It's not a requirement, Susan has left many areas of this site free for those who need to access it but can't afford to access the Just for Us section.

I think, I misunderstood her post as being aggressive. Seems to be a language problem since I'm no native speaker. My apologizes.

With some explaining, this thread seems to be nothing to worry about. It totally makes sense that whoever can afford it, should consider a donation or subscription.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 27, 2013, 03:24:40 PM
It's an Australian pep talk! The fact is, the site is here to help people, and it does that admirably. I am glad to be in a position to help, because I understand that keeping the site going helps others. I'll reinforce what learningtolive mentioned, the contribution doesn't have to be money. Volunteering your time to help keep this lifesaving place running is a good way to help, and it won't cost anything. Help how you can, but please help. Hugs, Devlyn

A lot like New Joisey speak where in the pre-PC days sarcasm ruled.

Perhaps it's me, but I knew/hoped(?) from the title of the thread that it was exactly what I read. Tough Love. I have no doubt Cindy knows many on this site are just scraping by and cannot spare a few bucks. However others can for exactly the reasons she said. Servers/hosting costs money. All the GB of storage needed for the site and the forums costs money.

I am surprised that there wasn't a "Donate" button on the main page as many other sites have. So much for my "Rich Benefactor" theory as to why not.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on July 27, 2013, 05:48:55 PM
If you can't give Susan a lousy 5 bucks, then I defy you to explain how you can waste it on internet service. Come on, it's just 5 bucks.

This sentence really bugs me. Internet access is pretty rapidly becoming less of a luxury and more of a necessity, and considering the wealth of benefits it brings, the cost is almost always worth it. Heck, it pays for itself pretty damn quickly.

At any rate, fortunately I'm not in too much trouble financially as things stand, so will certainly be donating a little. This site is excellent, and it would be a damn shame to see it disappear.

"I urge all, to dig deep, really deep, deep down, and not let any of our easier excuses to sway us. Suffer a bit even, go without a bit maybe, take the 5 bucks you might have spent on a possibly acceptable routine use, and tell Susan 'thanks for going without on our behalf'.

That's the core of my message. Susan went without, when she didn't need to. She has not demanded, and I am not demanding.But I am asking, even if she is not asking, to consider, what have you gained beyond spending some time just reading stuff while you have been here."


Well done, Lesley!

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on July 28, 2013, 08:00:52 AMI really don't think there really is anyone here, that can't find 5 bucks in truth. Not one of us.

Well, I can't since money is so tight right now that I am struggling to scrape together enough to feed us for the next month. But hey, your whole post convinced me that donating five bucks to a website is totally worth the equivalent of five buck going towards feeding my almost four year old son. (That was sarcastic in case anyone is worried that I would do such a thing.)
But I should stop talking since I'm angry (aka likely to say things that will get me in trouble) and I don't have to explain myself to you anyway.

Hey everyone, it's okay, this site is supposed to be about supporting one another. Let's stop arguing about whether or not some people can afford to donate a few bucks or not. We all have something to contribute, whether it's money, time volunteering, or just being an active member who contributes to interesting discussions. 

We wouldn't need people to donate if we didn't have a large group of active members; we wouldn't need volunteers if the only members were those who donated since the number of people is few; so non-donating/non-volunteering members are essential to this site as well.

Ladies and gentlemen,

All Cindy is asking is if you can donate, please do.  Anything will help.  Just a bit of math.   If everyone, who could, gave a dollar that would be over $6800 per month.

Now granted some can not, such as myself.  But all that is being asked is to donate WHEN and IF you can.

And as a sub note, Monday I have an interview for a job.  Please wish me special thoughts.

This thread has taken a very ugly turn.  Unfortunately, I may have unintentionally had a part in it.  My goal was to point out rhat some of us do have limitations. Sometimes people find it hard to understand,  so I rried to explain.  It was not to get everyone riled up and fighting.  I agree wirh the above sentiments,  if you can donate please do so.   This site has been an amazing resource and it is well worth rhe donation if you can do it.   

Let's not have a civil war when the intention of Susan is to save and expand the site.  It's not worth it.  Well...unless I can be rhe rebel princess.   Then I am taking this site down, lol.

P.s Ms.Obrien, good luck on the interview.

I would also further suggest rhe site begins to place ads on it.  Every Web site does so.  It makes no sense to hold off on this any longer if you are in debt.  I will gladly disable my adblocker for this site if you do it.  That will bring in further revenue in conjunction with the donations.

Quote from: learningtolive on July 28, 2013, 11:45:12 AM
I would also further suggest rhe site begins to place ads on it.  Every Web site does so.  It makes no sense to hold off on this any longer if you are in debt.  I will gladly disable my adblocker for this site if you do it.  That will bring in further revenue in conjunction with the donations.

This is true. The site needs to start acting with more business sense than charity sense. It looks like it's stuck in the 90's. It needs an update.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on July 28, 2013, 10:49:14 AM
Ladies and gentlemen,

All Cindy is asking is if you can donate, please do.  Anything will help.  Just a bit of math.   If everyone, who could, gave a dollar that would be over $6800 per month.

Now granted some can not, such as myself.  But all that is being asked is to donate WHEN and IF you can.

And as a sub note, Monday I have an interview for a job.  Please wish me special thoughts.

I always have special thoughts for you, hon. Knock 'em dead! Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on July 28, 2013, 08:00:52 AM
I really don't think there really is anyone here, that can't find 5 bucks in truth. Not one of us.

That's a bold statement.  You've got a lot of gaul.  I don't have a single pair of shoes that fit me.  I can't afford a bra in my size.  I DON'T HAVE $5 TO SPARE RIGHT NOW!