Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 28, 2013, 08:22:59 PMWondering how many people just scrolled up.    <running away>

I scrolled down...

I think the other site I go to is largely funded by a government grant. I would have to check.

No one's told me which I should do. I guess I'll just donate and then hope I remember to do it monthly.

Quote from: learningtolive on July 28, 2013, 08:03:05 PM
The subscriber and donation model (alone) may not be sustainable long term.  While there are some frequent users here, there are too many casual users.  Also, when services go premium you run the risk of losing traffic which hurts the overall long term stability of the site.  Donations and subscriptions are fine, and I hope it works out long term, but I think there needs to be a more stable business plan in motion to ensure the site remains.  Charity isn't likely to do it alone.

Exactly. There simply are not enough frequent users. I am lazy so I won't count but it wouldn't be hard to go thru the FTM and MTF and Transgender boards (The three most popular I believe) and figure out how many regular users there are. It is prolly less than 100. There are many, many casual users.How many make it over 100 posts?

Then there is the risk of alienating regular users. Say I am a subscriber and one day I get called sir and I'm all upset, I post a pic in a vanity thread and got like one reply. Then someone signs up, posts a pic, and gets 10 posts fawning all over her. I can tell you right now if I am paying for the site and something like that happens, I would leave. Then I'd be doubly upset: I not only got called sir then the one place I can come to disses me after I have been donating and fawns over some random person who will post once and then never come back.

Now, I'm not saying it is okay and that is rtaher selfish of me to say this but I can tell you I know myself and I know how emotional I am and this would bother me. Luckily, I am becoming more accepting of how I look and becoming okay with the fact that I pass and all but I can see something like this happening not just to me but someone else. I am not saying we should make the vanity threads a pay option but I'm sure most of the regular users here know how much of a double-edged sword they can be. They are sorely needed but then again they can hurt and people get hurt.


They same thing could happen to someone who just needed advice on a thread or just needed to feel loved that day.

That being said is soon as I have the money I wil be prolly become a subscriber as I should have the money soon and I owe a lot to this site. And I also understand some members can;t afford it, especially members in their early 20s as I remember how it was in my early 20s it was only eight years ago. Now I am rambling so Ill shut up.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 28, 2013, 08:22:59 PM
You must be kidding! That ad in the top right corner of the page is already driving me crazy.
Wondering how many people just scrolled up.    <running away>

You totally got me!!!!

I would have done this in a different way, but Cindy I appreciate the sentiment behind it. 

Someone said, "There are not enough frequent users," which is why over 127,780 people have accessed the site in the last 30 days. 44% or 56,223 are returning visitors.

if 10% of those 56,223 visitors would donate $5.00 a month (5,622) or 5% subscribe for 10$ a month (2,811) the site would bring in $28,110 a month. 

With that we would:

• Have the money to pay 100% of the costs of hosting the site.
• Give me a full time pay check
• Start paying back the some of the expenses of the site which were born by myself and the guy I worked for
• Hire the web designer for a complete professional redesign of the site
• Have funds to pay staff a little something to say thank you for all the long hours and hard work they exert to make this site the safe and secure the place it is

And last and certainly not least, we would be able to afford to start generating new content and features which will take Susan's Place to the next level; not just for the subscribers and donators, but for everyone!

Just imagine what we could do if 10% of the 1,426,632 people who accessed the site in the last year chose to help support the site.

Sure we have members living at or near the poverty line, and  I was one of those. We are not asking those to step up and help support the site; but a few of them have and they have our gratitude as we know the hardship of doing so means to them. 

But, we also have multimillionaires who if they wanted to could make a donation to fund the operations of the site for a year without blinking an eye, though none of them have stepped forth as of yet.

Most of the members fall somewhere in between. Think about how much this site has helped you and pay it forward if you can, because it boils down to the fact that each person that donates or subscribes is making a personal commitment to ensure a bright future for Susan's Place.

Quote from: randomroads on July 28, 2013, 09:38:16 PM
No one's told me which I should do. I guess I'll just donate and then hope I remember to do it monthly.

The subscriptions seem to be for two fixed amounts. I don't know whether you can change them. I made a one-time donation that way because I was able to change the terms of the donation. Then I made another donation the usual way. You might see if you can change the monthly amount on the subscription.

When I first saw the subscription amounts I thought it was a bit high for the amount of time I spent on the site - I "subscribe" to a couple of other sites (Espn being one of them) and they are significantly cheaper. 

That being said, after thinking about it for a day or two, I decided that the site has (and hopefully will continue to) meant a lot to me.  It's not about the amount of "time" I spend here, but rather the quality of the time.  It's given me a place to not only share my thoughts, but to also received some more objective feedback and support than I get from my wonderful wife and daughter.  That's worth a lot more to me than reading the latest article about the local sports teams or spoiled athlete. 

Maybe I won't always be in the position where I can do something to help the site out, but for now since I can I felt it's the right thing to do.  Hopefully others that can will feel the same way.

Many thanks to Susan and everyone else who makes this site what it is.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on July 28, 2013, 08:22:59 PM
Wondering how many people just scrolled up.    <running away>

I did.

That said, I argue for putting ads on the site. Not disturbing ones of course, but a little banner in the top corners wouldn't hurt people. I'd say make them invisible for subscribers. That way we broke people can at least give a little bit of support for the site while subscribers won't see the ads.

For those using adblock with the element hiding helper, you can now block the Support the site block at the top of the page. I enclosed it in a div with the id announcements to make this possible.

I really wish I had the capability and the finance's to help, or had some skill I could donate to the site, everyone hear has helped me so much, and while I understand what has happened has to happen, I am going to miss and be sad not-being able to post in some of the areas I was before posting in, my only hope is that eventually I will be financially in a better spot than that in which I currently am in 

but I do want those who are responsible for this site, that I very much appreciate and love you for making and maintaining this site

Quote from: learningtolive on July 27, 2013, 02:54:42 PM
Cindy, I like you.  And I agree that Susan has done a great thing and deserves our help.  But I find this post to be a bit insulting and condescending to those who are legitimately broke and unable to donate.  You make it sound as though, we don't care and have no desire to help.  I would gladly contribute if I had the money.  The thing is I don't.  Yes, this site is amazing and everything that Susan has done is great.  I do appreciate it and would like to give back.  But if I am poor and have nothing to give, should I be emotionally blackmailed into doing something I can't.  It's not like I don't care.  I don't have it.  I'm sorry but I am in a bad place and $10 a month WOULD actually hurt me.  Again, I thank you for everything that you have provided.  I mean that.  But its not my choice about donating.  I don't have a choice.

I did, however, offer what I could to help the site in terms of volunteering.  The offer remains because I want this site to thrive and I'd like to contribute.  If there is something else I can help out with, I will gladly do so, but I can't grow a non-existent money tree.

Sorry if I took this too personally, but I found it a little insulting to say that all of us not subscribing are shrugging our shoulders saying "why should we care".  And as a moderator who knows the personalities of most the members here, I hope you don't think so little of us as people.

Paying for the resource has numerous justifications.

Paying is a respect to the stalwarts who have battled for you, me and all of society.  Because without their efforts, things would be like they were in the 60's.  I'd don't think you'd like that world. 

People's gender stuffed in a dark box named 'society's abuse' and 'I can't be myself because I'm afraid of what you will do to me'.  The armed forces would still think that 'men are men and women stay at home' and if you have the IQ of a rocket scientist and are a woman, you'd be stuffed in a box named 'traditional gender roles - stay home and pop out babies and make my dinner ready on time'.  And if you were a man, you'd have three choices 'work and make money, or work and make money, or work and make money'.  God help you if you were a gay male, a lesbian, or transgendered.  God help you if you spoke out against the machine.  Then you'd get smashed across the head with a club and told to be quiet--you're an abomination'.  And you'd either do yourself in, or grow strong and battle because you're strong.

The extraordinary efforts and human pain that go into transforming society needs practical resources.  Bottom line: money, in our society, is needed to front the blue suits and conservative sectors whose attitudes are steeped in societal-narcissism, that callous force that is behind the abuse.  It's narcissism because 'we the conservatives, are affronted by you and expect you to live as we do, for our, not your sake'. 

Society doesn't change without being kicked and dragged along.  We can't do anything to change society unless you empty your pockets.  Do that with a sense of joy and gratitude, because you're helping save lives.  And--if you're one of the young generation the beneficiary of the souls who made the world safe for you--gratitude is the only language that doesn't leave you seeming just like the forebears before you.

Actions speak louder than words.  Building devices to challenge the legislature, educate hundreds of millions of souls, and stand strong before a society who thinks anything outside of the norm is an abomination--takes resources.

If the question of donating had been raised a month ago when a tax rebate landed in my account then i'd have jumped at the chance to help, unfortunately I splurged on a few nice things to cheer myself up & have given the rest to my mum for safe keeping to pay for electrolysis.

Right now i'm struggling to survive on benefits & every penny counts, as soon as i'm in a better financial situation i'll happily subscribe & make a big donation, this desire to help has nothing to do with accessing a sub forum but comes from my eternal gratitude for the help this site has provided, if it wasn't for Susan's place & some of the great people i've met on here then I wouldn't have made it through the early part of this year.

Ok folks, lets tone it down a bit, OK.

Susan has asked for those who can to help defray the expenses, nothing more, nothing less.  Lets go with the spirit of the request.

I understand that many of us are on "fixed" incomes and money is tight (I'm retired and on Social Security).
So, "IF" you can help do it.  "IF" you can't that is fine.  If you feel the need to "explain" why, keep it short AND DO NOT berate others for the reasons they give or don't give.

I restored the topic, staff thought the thread was getting a little too hot.  To cool the thread down a bit I deleted a couple of posts, I read every post in this thread and I heard what they all had to say.

Both Cindy and Lesley Roberta mean well, and I think that there was a little bit of cultural or language barrier resulting in people taking offense in their posts where none was intended by them.

No one, and I mean no one will ever be looked down upon who doesn't donate to support the site.  You have my promise on this. However, I will make it quite clear though I intend to recognize those who can and do step up to help out.

Eventually donors who get very little direct benefits from their donations will be given prominent recognition on the main page of the site. Both Subscribers and Donors (they are different) will be receiving a profile badge identifying them as a contributor who helps support the site.

I only ask that those who can do so consider stepping up and helping out, as Cindy has done! Over the last few years, she has given more than all other subscribers and donators so far have combined, and I can't thank her enough!

I have now put a post in the Announcement area for a number of 'Scholarships' for people who cannot afford to pay at the moment but who want access and can save $10 over a couple of months.

Please don't get so upset.

As many of you know I am an Australian, we tend to be rather 'blunt' in conversation, but then we also have to shout from a long way.

And I just signed up for a subscription some stuff finally came through.

I haven't been here long. I have to be honest, when I read this, I feel very unwelcome.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for any site to ask for financial support, but the first post in this thread makes me feel like I am a free-loader or some horrible person for coming here and using 'your services'.

Is this really the kind of effect you wish to have?

Jker86 Cindy's from Australia and there is are cultural and lingual differences. Cindy had no intention to make you feel unwelcome.

thanks for explaining that, I think I understand.

perhaps that could be a preface, because some people looking for help may be alienated?

Quote from: jker86 on July 30, 2013, 07:23:37 AM
I haven't been here long. I have to be honest, when I read this, I feel very unwelcome.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for any site to ask for financial support, but the first post in this thread makes me feel like I am a free-loader or some horrible person for coming here and using 'your services'.

Is this really the kind of effect you wish to have?

I'm sorry Hon.

You are not a free loader and I am here to support you.

My pm is activate as is my email and Goddess knows how many members have my private phone number to call if they are troubled, it is available to you as well when you want it.

Running Susan's costs a lot. Susan and her business partner have paid an enormous amount to keep the site going. I have helped a little.

We do it to help you.

There is no compulsion to help, if you cannot afford it, don't even think about it.

We are here for our members and we are here to help.

We are just after a bit of financial help to ease the load.

Maybe my You Tube post in #78 can explain my motives

Cindy