hi, this is addressed mainly to those girls who are interested in girls, as in, used to be considered straight men, but now lesbian trans women or bi.
obviously the sexuality is not necessarily linked to gender identity, but I wonder how sexuality plays with the dysphoria....
I mean, I don't much like my genitals, no surprise there, but sometimes when I watch pornography, I find myself desiring the woman in a way only a man can, if you know what I mean.
so, to clarify, if I went ahead with the operation in the future, I wouldn't be able to do that.
So now I'm a bit muddled, because I was thinking I would probably want to be rid of this thing, I would feel far more special without it. far more beautiful. and I really would like female genitalia. I feel like that would make me more complete.
using a toy on a woman just wouldn't satisfy that particular desire. I thought for a split second, "OMG I want to have straight sex with a woman, does that mean I was pretending to myself all this time!!" but then of course I know that is an overreaction. But I'd like to know if any of you girls had this thought.

anyway... I should probably mention, any times I been with a real life woman, I hated her touching my genitals and didn't really enjoy sex full stop. the actions are not enjoyable, which makes me wonder why watching porn makes me more interested in that.

Well I tried to like women and not be trans and I never watched porn but when fantasizing i tried to think of myself penetrating a woman but when I did I went limp. I had to think of a man or myself as female...with a man.

I've had sex with women though and I loved their genitalia. One of the reasons my ex broke up with me though was she said sex with me was too gentle, too sweet. Whatever that means. Well I know what it means. It means having sex with me is like having sex with a woman. The other girl I slept with said the same thing but she was alot meaner about it but said I was great (in other ways.)

So I never really cared about, nor was I good at, the act of penetration. My man card would be revoked if I wasn't turning it in. I've had sex with about three women and slept with a couple men too. The one constant: I'm so gentle.

But you should think about whether or not this is the right path if you are going to miss penetration. You could make yourself impotent with just HRT, possibly. T production will be killed irreversibly after one year. You could make yourself irreversibly female.

Joanna, thanks for your reply

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 13, 2013, 11:24:36 PM
Well I tried to like women and not be trans and I never watched porn but when fantasizing i tried to think of myself penetrating a woman but when I did I went limp.

same response when with a real woman. there is something different about watching porn, maybe it's conditioning, like a fetish. I associate sexual pleasure with watching that kind of thing and convinced myself that it was because I wanted to do what the man is doing.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 13, 2013, 11:24:36 PM
So I never really cared about, nor was I good at, the act of penetration. My man card would be revoked if I wasn't turning it in. I've had sex with about three women and slept with a couple men too. The one constant: I'm so gentle.

yes I too am gentle, I am not the aggressor, I have only ever once reached the finish line with a woman and it was when she was very aggressive and totally took charge. I still didn't enjoy it though, it was more like an assault on the senses.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 13, 2013, 11:24:36 PM
But you should think about whether or not this is the right path if you are going to miss penetration. You could make yourself impotent with just HRT, possibly. T production will be killed irreversibly after one year. You could make yourself irreversibly female.

this is something like what I have been thinking. after I felt like I had become more masculie than I had been for a long time, I am feeling really drained, emotionally. now I just want to ignore the whole issue, I want to rest, but this means being how I have been for years, because that takes no effort, and anyhow, now I just feel really depressed. it's so much work to make myself feel like a woman, even though it feels right, it feels better, but it makes me tired. I'm so miserable right now.

Yuki I know EXACTLY how you feel.

I wake in the morning and I am hungry and it's not for a damn sandwich either.

And I suppose if I had a vagina, I'd be using a vagina, but I don't.

The thing only works one way, it does what it does, and it only does what it does, and given enough playing it resolves the way it resolves and it doesn't look at all how my wife looks when she reaches that omg moment either

I have often wondered, it is after all the same organ with surgery, it's the same nerves, the same 'on button', they just make it into something that looks the part. There isn't any resolution in the old way is all. I have of course wondered, so, what does a modified organ feel like when it reaches that moment you originally went omg? There's no squirt and sigh to let you know you succeeded.

I still prefer women. Nothing odd about that, plenty of women prefer women.
Plenty of women that prefer women, will substitute an artificial replacement for the item they weren't born with. They think nothing odd about pretending to be something they were not born as while having fun with their equally female partner.
It's why I can enjoy letting the thing I do have, do what it was designed to do, while enjoying some physical amusement, and not worry myself over the idea it is meant to be attached to a male form.

It's the only tool I have to work with.

When I am getting off, I'm having lesbian thoughts for the most part. I don't see myself as performing a male sex act as a male.
It's all about, what are you thinking about, while you are enjoying sex. If you are day dreaming about being a man, you might not be as female as you might think you might be I suppose. Then again, for those among us that are either andro, or bi, thinking in male terms periodically is not really a problem.
Me I am neither andro or bi. There's no man between my ears.

I'd rather have sex as a woman. I just don't wish to be a woman having sex with a man.

Lesley, thanks! It's great that you share these thoughts and feelings.
it is making more sense now. especially what you said about fantasising about being a guy, I do think that is very relevant. If I spy myself in the mirror, I do feel very ugly and ashamed and repulsed, and if I think of myself as the guy in the movie, I also feel very low and sad.  I think the feelings I experienced relate very much to the action and not the way it relates to me. I understand what you say about women using tools to do the same thing.
if I had a vagina, then using a double ended strap on, would allow me to do the same thing; to penetrate and to receive pleasure at the same time.
I guess that is more about domination and power, rather than about gender and anatomy.

Lesley, I think you're absolutely right - plenty of cis women fantasize about being the dominant/penetrating partner, and some even imagine what it would be like to be a man. (I have heard a few butch lesbians, for example, say that they approach women [in and out of bed] in a very masculine and male-presenting way, yet they are VERY sure they're women. I also know trans women who call what they've got their "strapless" and equate using it to a cis woman with a strap-on, except that theirs is inconveniently affixed all the time.) What one wants to do in bed, how one feels about one's nether regions, one's preferred partner type(s) and one's gender are all distinct categories, although they're interrelated in expression.

(FWIW, I can answer your other curiosity, at least for myself : I could sense orgasm and ejaculation as separate events "before," so the feeling now is similar in a lot of ways to how orgasm felt back then. However, it's not just that someone rearranged the nerves and skin to *look* like something else... it utterly and completely feels like what it is, now. There's no comparison between what it feels like to have a vagina and vulva and what it was like to have a penis. For example, when my outer labia itch, my brain interprets that correctly as what it is; it does NOT feel like an itchy scrotum in any way, even though that's what that skin/nerves used to be. Etc. There were a few days of confusion while my brain caught up and remapped the nerves to their proper new locations, but by now I have to struggle to remember what it was like to be different. I've talked about this with cis women, and they all said my descriptions sound just like it is for them [and thought it was funny when I complained about the annoying stuff!].)

What you say is reassuring Jenna.

I'm as trans as they come, but I've never really minded having a penis, and have enjoyed using it to pleasure women. It's actually one of the few things that I miss during my transition. I still have desires to penetrate women (though I'll gladly chuck it all for the chance to be penetrable myself).

But penetrating women in real life (as opposed to fantasies) is complicated. There are fluids, there is geometry, there are smells, there is performance anxieties, there is the pressure to turn your partner on.

It's MUCH harder to enjoy than the fantasy. IMO it's pretty much a waste of time unless you care very much about each other and then it's all about the shared experience.

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 14, 2013, 04:36:45 PM
I'm as trans as they come, but I've never really minded having a penis, and have enjoyed using it to pleasure women. It's actually one of the few things that I miss during my transition. I still have desires to penetrate women (though I'll gladly chuck it all for the chance to be penetrable myself).

Aren't you worried that one day you may really, really want to penetrate someone and won't be able to, like if you fall in love with someone or something and they like the penis. I'm just wondering please don't take it the wrong way.

I won't miss having a penis.

After nearly 30 years of marriage, and a sexually active one, I am fully aware, and ok with the truth, that most men can't actually get a woman off with their penis.

The male organ isn't even designed to give the woman amusement. It's designed to become amused enough to ejaculate sperm. All of my wife's most memorable orgasms, I gave them to her with something other than a penis doing the penis thing.

If you want to impress a woman, you need to know what to touch and how with your fingers, and having a strong tongue will also get you places too

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 14, 2013, 04:48:23 PM
The male organ isn't even designed to give the woman amusement.

You haven't seen my BF's penis. It's magnificent.

I think what Jenna was saying is pretty relevant to me. Some girls decide not to get the op and keep their 'strapless' ^_^
I am still on the fence myself. I think it'll take a long time to make the decision one way or the other.
I think... I spend more time not having sex than having sex and I think that will always be true, so I think the way I feel about my body when not having sex is more important.
I think... there are times I desire to penetrate a woman but have no girlfriend, so I can't do it anyway. :lol:
I think when I finally find somebody to share with, I can gauge how I feel about sex with them. I may meet a guy or another trans woman and he or she may wish to penetrate me. well that will be a big factor too because I can't currently do that.
I think most important will be how I feel about my body when looking in the mirror.
ah, but I think i figured it out anyway. I watched the same clip and thought about how I felt about the girl and the desire to be with her. I realised that if I was using a toy on her then I think I would feel the same. I don't think it was about me.

suzi, you got me thinking there... maybe the reason I don't enjoy sex is because of all those things? performance anxiety etc. I have thought that in the past... I think it's wrong though. I think that is perhaps one of the things some of us may tell ourselves to make life more comfortable? I wish I could have a long term relationship so I would know for sure, but to do that I would need to get a GF and the main thing that has kept me from doing that is the fact I don't feel attractive as a male. !!
so catch 22.

I can also tell you that I too know a lot of cisgender women (both lesbian and straight) who have confessed sometimes they wish they had a penis during sex. Lesbians because they can penetrate their partner and get mutual pleasure, straight women...I don't really know, they haven't elaborated lol. But it doesn't mean they'd want a penis their whole life, it's just a now and again sexual desire.

And porn is pretty different. I can tell you, the porn I watch is nothing compared to what I actually like to do in real life. They are almost complete opposites in fact. I think part of that is dysphoria, the other is just...fantasy is something entirely different. It's like when I took a sailing class. I had this fantasy about being on the water, it being amazing...and I still have that fantasy...but actually sailing is a right pain in the butt with all the ropes, etc. Lol.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 14, 2013, 04:44:23 PM
Aren't you worried that one day you may really, really want to penetrate someone and won't be able to, like if you fall in love with someone or something and they like the penis. I'm just wondering please don't take it the wrong way.

Yup.

But what am I supposed to do? For some reason I have a strong deep feeling that having a female bottom is the shape my body is meant to have.

I'm not worried about the falling in love. If they are really in love with ME, then they are in love with a woman ('cause that's what I am) so they better get used to the fact that I don't really want my male parts.

And this is what RLE is about. It's effectively impossible for me to penetrate someone with my body's endocrines the way they are. After a year, I'll have a pretty good idea of what it will be like and whether it will be a problem long term.

Quote from: suzifrommd on August 14, 2013, 06:41:11 PM
I'm not worried about the falling in love. If they are really in love with ME, then they are in love with a woman ('cause that's what I am) so they better get used to the fact that I don't really want my male parts.

See do you think that is true? I know my BF wants me to get SRS. I don't think he would stay with me if I had no plans to have surgery. He even said I should just keep plucking, invest my laser money, and use it towards surgery. But at least I know he isn't a ->-bleeped-<-. He had to spend some time away from me to realize just how awesome I am. But I was spending way, way too much time with him in the first place.

But yeah you're right that is the reason for the RLE. I'm sure you will be fine.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on August 14, 2013, 06:54:32 PM
See do you think that is true? I know my BF wants me to get SRS. I don't think he would stay with me if I had no plans to have surgery. 

See, I wouldn't call this love. When you're in love with someone, you accept them how they are and help them work toward being the person they want to be.

Of course, this is just my opinion, and it doesn't mean he isn't right for you, or that your relationship can't work.

The main problem I have with porn, is it is soo damned obviously male centric.

Not easy to find content that is clearly sympathetic to a woman's interests.

My inherent male hating tends to rail against anything in a porn sequence that is clearly hostile to a female.

And females are not nearly as visually stimulated as males, so the whole process of porn is often a loss.

Most of the time, I use porn the same way you use a match. Good for lighting a fire, not much to cook with I usually do all the rest in my head.

But I have been recently trying to diet, and not being to successful either. It's more fun with someone than not, but, I have been trying to cut the wife free, so even if she were interested in watching participating, it would be contrary to my goals.

The sooner I can have access to something that might greatly diminish my appetite the better.

Maybe he just loves her and find penetration a natural extension of that love... It would be frustrating to have that cake and not eat it.   Imagine being with someone you love and them not kissing you... it would be horrible and you may rather look for someone you could kiss instead....  I think its fine he wants that, so long as you do too!


For me,  seeing a girl bent over and looking back with inviting eyes makes me want to penetrate her... but I know I would get dysphoric moments later and stop enjoying it.  It's just not how I am wired up.  I prefer lesbian style sex, and always have done. It was a huge revelation to me that what was between my ears IS a lesbian.  Plain and simple.

Will I miss having a penis?  Sometimes I guess... Will I love having a vagina.  All.  The.  Time.

I am allowing myself total freedom to change on hrt.  If I lose interest in somethings. .. so be it.  Its going to be the real me for better or worse.

Jennas comment about the brain rewiring is amazingly pleasing to hear.  Thanks Jenna!  I was worried it would all feel like groinal origami down there.

i read hentai instead of watch porn. there's so much more imaginary pleasure in those drawings... and it's easier to believe a fantasy than a fake, which i hold porn for being.
well, not all porn is that bad, i have seen some good gay porn. but straight porn seems a little too male centered for me to see the point in it. i'd love to see a woman in ecstasy, but those pretty pleasure dolls just look too sad.

but this wasn't a discussion about porn. those bits and parts of our body, what was i going to say about it again..
i don't really like my female parts too much. i've tried men, and with the girly one it worked, while the manly man was a disaster. not really that bad, it just didn't feel right. and he was too quick. maybe it's just that i like strapons better than an actual manthing going inside me. i don't know, and have no way of figuring out other than knowing that i find the thought of letting a man have his way with my female part quite repulsive. except in my fantasies, but those men are perfect not real.

the fantasy of loving as your birth sex might stem from a wish to be loved unconditionally. the perfect man or woman or other would love you for who you are, see you as who you are, and still be able to pleasure you in just the right way with the bits you have. it might also be because that's the only sexual organ you have experience with using, whn i get horny, it's my female parts that want to be stimulated, since i don't have any other parts.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 15, 2013, 07:19:17 AM
.....
Not easy to find content that is clearly sympathetic to a woman's interests.
.....
My inherent male hating tends to rail against anything in a porn sequence that is clearly hostile to a female.
.....

ditto. If I see his hand go round her neck or if I see him slap her, I immediately lose interest. it makes me sad.
but, if you are interested, there is material that is aimed towards girls. I once watched this incredible movie, called "aria".  I'm pretty sure that was aimed at girls, since it appealed to me in ways no other movie ever could. it was like a slow cooker rather than a 5 minute microwave.
oh also, I do visit a site that has some excellent material for girls. it's called mad thumbs. hopefully it is ok to just give the name like that, I'm not linking to it. it has a specific section "for women"