I have an FtM friend that is still very effeminate and occasionally dresses as a woman (mostly for cosplay) and I see nothing wrong with that. I myself enjoy the occasional dress, and I'm sure many other FtMs do as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some MtFs that still wore boxers or men's t-shirts or something to that effect. However, many people would see this as something wrong, or proof that they didn't want to transition in the first place.

Now, as far as this subject goes, I would really like to hear other people's opinions. I'm still new/in my questioning phase or whatever and I would really like to hear whatever points you have to offer ^^

I'm non-binary, so this is an interesting one for me...
For the most part, I wear men's clothing, though skirts and dresses also hold their appeal!

However, I'm putting those away for a while because I plan to crush my "closet" fairly soon, when I'm back at school, so that people will hopefully take me more seriously. -- I tended to wear really feminine clothing on occasion, and despite most of my wardrobe being on the opposite end of that spectrum, dressing that way now probably wouldn't help my cause.
But, once I'm more used to correcting people about my gender, I'll probably go back to that.

For me, it's important to dress in whatever makes you comfortable, not what lines up with your gender/sex/whatever.

I agree. I know people that think pretty black and white, so I can't help but get other opinions, but I think clothes and gender shouldn't be related. I mean, there are some straight guys that look REALLY GOOD in dresses. Like, hot diggity dang. And there are straight ladies that can rock a suit for sure. But do you think that take on the fashion industry would make it harder for trans* people to pass?

Quote from: ZandertheSwanky on August 14, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
But do you think that take on the fashion industry would make it harder for trans* people to pass?

I guess for some people. But I sometimes have to present male and if I shave, I don't pass as male or maybe I barely pass because they are men's clothes, but get all sorts of weird looks. I was getting on the train one time and this guy let me go and told his GF, "let the man go" And she started whispering "There's no way that's a man. I swear to God that is a girl. Seriously it's a girl." So although I like that on one level, on another it is extremely awkward. It also explained all these weird looks I got earlier. That girl kept going on and on.

I hate wearing men's clothes though and they don't really fit me well so I don't at home or anywhere else unless I have to like in the above incident. I certainly don't want to. I will fix that soon enough, or get fired.

I see..
I guess the whole issue of gender and everything is pretty confusing, especially when it comes to fashion XD

Being early in the exploration phase myself (MTF or MT?), I don't think clothing preference matters, I know how I feel inside, and whether I am wearing my favorite dress or jacket doesn't really alter my perception. The more time I spend in feminine cloths, the more steps I take, the stronger my pull towards femininity becomes, but I still like wearing some articles of stereotypical male clothing.

In the end clothing is only an external expression of our internal identity and just because somebody identifies as mostly as Female or Male in soul and body, doesn't mean that their identity is any less valid just because they occasionally wear clothing opposite of their identified gender.

*applause* couldn't have said it better myself

a person's supposed to wear whatever feels comfortable. more than enough of cis people wear opposite sex clothes just because they like it better, so i see no reason why trans people shouldn't.

being trans has nothing to do with clothing, it's all about what the brain thinks the body should look like. i'm sure if pink skirts were reserved for men only, trans men would desperately want to wear one just to look more manly in their expression, but then again some might not actually like wearing too masculine clothing, and would shy away from them unless everybody told them men are suppose to wear those things to be man enough. in the end, clothing style are more of a signal to ones self and others what one really is, a try not to be mistaken for what one is not, a way to signal belonging to a specific group of people, a way to revolt against conformity, or simply personal taste (i like this one the most), and many others.

any reason for wearing or not wearing something is just as valid as the other, and most of them don't really have to do with one's gender or birth sex or wanted sex or...

i generally wear the first pieces of clothing that match at all. appearances don't matter to me beyond some sense of aesthetics. if it looks good on me, i should be allowed to wear it no matter if they to others signal identification with a group that people don't really expect me to belong to.

I wear a melange right now - mostly female everything, skirts and jeans and tops with respectable necklines, but I'm not terribly averse (yet) to wearing my one Men's Small t-shirt (it's purple!)
Problem is guy clothes don't fit terribly well. Especially the pants. My hips and butt are too big for them. ^_^

I'm slowly building my wardrobe; as time goes on I'll throw out more clothes from before until there's none left.
Hopefully very very soon.

Identity (self-determination of who you are) and expression (how you present yourself) are two totally different things.  There's a perception that MtFs are supposed to run away from all things "manly" and FtMs are likewise trying to squash everything "girly," but that's just not true in practice.  That we've seen this question a lot around here I think helps prove the point that men (whether cis- or trans-) are capable of liking/expressing "feminine" stuff, and that women (whether cis- or trans-) are capable of embracing "masculine" things.  Clothes are no exception -- and if fact, they are the items most inquired about concerning this general topic.

Granted, a lot of people are going to act dumb about people who buck the norms or even simply about trans- people in the first place, but their sheer numbers and volume don't make them correct.  You can probably tell the majority can be wrong simply because the majority doesn't even get "trans" properly to begin with.  From a moral standpoint, it doesn't matter one way or another whether your expression matches the stereotype for your identity.  You might have to "play along" in certain situations to survive and achieve certain other important objectives, but the most important thing is to be true to yourself -- even if you're a femme transman.

Quote from: ZandertheSwanky on August 14, 2013, 05:29:10 PM
However, many people would see this as something wrong, or proof that they didn't want to transition in the first place.

Now, as far as this subject goes, I would really like to hear other people's opinions.

A lot of men cross dress. I don't see it as surprising that some of those are trans men.

IMO, there is nothing whatever wrong with cross dressing.

Everything but jeans and tshirts is drag for me, lol. I am used to seeing myself with clothes cut for XX-bodies, though, so it's always a bit of a culture shock to look at myself in the mirror and see me wearing men's clothes. I still prefer less uber-masculine cut clothes, but that's just the aesthetic I prefer, how the garment hangs, etc. At the same time it's a culture shock to be in a fancy dress, too!

Basically I dress however I want and whatever I think looks good. Could mean short shorts and a binder with a tshirt, could mean tights and a tank top with a pushup bra. I think I look less like a woman no matter what I'm wearing these days. I've also gone back and seen photos of myself with longer hair from a few years back, and I could say the same thing about that. It was like looking at a genderless person with long hair, instead of someone "girlier".

The argument usually goes, why can't a man wear a dress? And then we go to great lengths to explain why a man should be able to wear a dress.

The argument, if it is to be worth squat, has to go both ways.

If I as a penis equipped human desire to be treated as a woman that has the right to wear a dress wish to be taken seriously, then, it follows, that a vagina equipped human should be extended the same right to choose to look as they wish as well.

So in the end, there shouldn't be any reason to call a vagina equipped human that identifies as male and wishes to periodically wear a dress a contradiction. If it isn't for me, then it isn't for them.

Clothing should in the end, just be about what looks nice on the person.

'Oh come on, you can't wear that Lesley, it looks horrible on you, here try this one'. Hey I am sure some skirts and some dresses will be absolutely wrong on me

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on August 16, 2013, 06:24:27 PM
The argument usually goes, why can't a man wear a dress? And then we go to great lengths to explain why a man should be able to wear a dress.

The argument, if it is to be worth squat, has to go both ways.

Yep, the argument becomes pretty useless if it only applies to cis people. 

You imply I was even referring to just cis people.