Sometimes and a lot of times people put transexual and gay/lesbian in the same container. For example when i search transgender community in my country i always found LGBT community not just T community. it bothers me a lot because it is a very different thing. But what about you guys?

I'm not much of a fan of the T being in the LGBT. A lot of LGBT organizations really don't cater to trans* issues or if they do they are addressed after the sexual orientation issues. Trans* issues and lgb issues are not the same, there are areas of over lap, i.e. there are plenty of gay/lesbian/bi trans* people, but (and speaking from experience) lgbt spaces are heavily cis-priviledged. I'm all for being friends and allies but I think there should be a clear separation between sexual orientation and trans* spaces and activism.

lgbt spaces are often dictated by lgb people while trans* people are really just token individuals to legitimize the t addition, so I'm not really into it. There was a good thread in the androgyne section about a similar topic but I couldn't seem to find it, maybe some else can.

I see the association of LGB and T as being one of political expedience more than anything. And legitimately so. As sexual minorities, we have common interests politically that are better served by coordinating efforts than going it alone. That being said, I do think that it muddies the waters in terms of public perception, reinforcing the misguided perception that T* is a sexuality.

Here's my current toy analogy:

In terms of community politics, T is to LGB as Canada is to the US: they're by far our closest friends but we're uneasy because they numerically overwhelm us.

It doesnt bother me, I am Trans however I am Lesbian so... Im lesbian.

Well I am for now lol thank you hormones!!

It doesn't bother me in the slightest.  I mean transition many trans persons become gay and in my case, I was Gay/Bi before transition. So there's that. Plus, we need them more then they need us. Do you think we will get further in acceptance without the help of the Gay community? I highly doubt that. In my city, and in the Northeast in general, the trans in LGBT does not stand for Token and the mazzoni center was originally a center for gay men with HIV. So there's that too.

I don't have a problem with it. I do kind of have a problem with the way society labels people by who they happen to love though. I like men in some peoples eyes I'm a gay man in my eyes even though I hate to say it I'm straight. But if the unthinkable happens and I fall for a woman does that make me a lesbian no. Because really when it comes down to it I don't fall in love with labels I fall in love with people. I just normally happen to fall for people with big muscles and some facial hair that isn't a label that's just what I'm attracted too. 

It doesn't bother me.  Actually, I am glad that the community is integrated.  There is a lot of political clout behind the lgbt movement.  If we were to separate, we would lose a lot of influence and find it harder to get support for our cause.  Let's face it, people are more likely to fight for gays and lesbians than they are for trans people alone.  When we join them or are seen as a part of their struggle, we get a lot more political and social backing.  I think there is strength in numbers and the lgbt community is a great example of that.  Besides, we do face a lot of the same issues even if gender and sexuality are different.  Nonetheless, it pisses me off when people cannot understand the distinction between being trans and gay.  It really is a simple concept and shouldn't require consistent explanations; unfortunately, in the case of my family, this is frequently necessary.   Thank god I'm not a lesbian because that would just blow their minds,lol.

The LGB community has every right to ask for acceptance in society, and I'm happy they include us in their desire for acceptance.  But I've never felt like I'm part of their group, and I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying this.  So forgive me if it does.

The difference between LGB and trans is so obvious that I'm sometimes stunned by the misguided statements I hear from my family, friends, and acquaintances.  So often they seem to think that being trans is all about dressing a part, a sexual fetish, lifestyle, or worst of all - a type of sexual deviance.  Explaining it is often terribly futile, but this is pretty much what I tell those who don't understand.

In the LGB community an individual doesn't need to change their body to live as the person they are.  And they don't spend upwards of 50K on electrolysis, SRS, and sometimes cosmetic surgery.  They also don't have to take medication every day for the rest of their lives, give themselves injections, or see therapists and doctors for approvals to have their life opened up to them.  You see, the members of the LGB community already possess everything they need to be lesbian, gay or bi, and nothing else needs to be ingested, injected, added, subtracted, or surgically changed (unless it's for vanity sake). 

But with all this said, I wouldn't turn down any offer to help with inclusion in a desire for acceptance.  Just don't lump me in without some understanding or explanation.

K

My main issue with LGBT is quite simple. It creates ignorance.

When ever I expalin how I am trans people always go so your just a gay guy who likes girl cloths? I cant name a time that hasnt been said to me and I go no I am trans they go who really cares your all the same.

I know quite a few gay guys who are in my local LGBT society/club and not one of them understand the difference between a transexual and a ->-bleeped-<-, I assume most believe the T is for transv and not for us. It may be a simple reason to hate the term but honestly it clumps us together allowing ignorance and yes some of us are bi/les/gay but that shouldnt be a reason for trans to be put in the same boat.

Sorry I just believe I am a girl and therefore why must i be cirycled out as some wanna be girl?

 I've come to think that T means token.There's a lot of transphobia and haters on the gay scene and over the past few years I felt less and less accepted.I'm bi and that makes me a minority minority

There is no LGBT community. The T in LGBT is silent. It's not the same thing, at all. LGB people aren't trying to get fixed with medication and surgery. It isn't a lifestyle, political statement, or even cool. And I'm so tired of well meaning people discovering I'm trans, then grabbing me by the hand to be introduced to the token gay person. I'm not gay, or even fabulous, for that matter.

In most places LGBT should really be G(L) and possibly a small ((b)).  Often the real opposition to MtFs and discrimination comes from gay men.

However, my church LGBT group currently has more T than GL members.  Even so we find we are taking part in the "Gay" Pride parade and hosting "Gay" marriage speakers.  I think I'll do (even more) rocking the boat in the planning meetings!

Quote from: MaryXYX on September 03, 2013, 06:01:17 AM
In most places LGBT should really be G(L) and possibly a small ((b)).  Often the real opposition to MtFs and discrimination comes from gay men.

However, my church LGBT group currently has more T than GL members.  Even so we find we are taking part in the "Gay" Pride parade and hosting "Gay" marriage speakers.  I think I'll do (even more) rocking the boat in the planning meetings!

wow, i did not know that.. i thought gay men would understand us better than straight men

Quote from: learningtolive on September 03, 2013, 12:24:02 AM
It doesn't bother me.  Actually, I am glad that the community is integrated.  There is a lot of political clout behind the lgbt movement.  If we were to separate, we would lose a lot of influence and find it harder to get support for our cause.  Let's face it, people are more likely to fight for gays and lesbians than they are for trans people alone.  When we join them or are seen as a part of their struggle, we get a lot more political and social backing.  I think there is strength in numbers and the lgbt community is a great example of that.  Besides, we do face a lot of the same issues even if gender and sexuality are different.  Nonetheless, it pisses me off when people cannot understand the distinction between being trans and gay.  It really is a simple concept and shouldn't require consistent explanations; unfortunately, in the case of my family, this is frequently necessary.   Thank god I'm not a lesbian because that would just blow their minds,lol.

All of this ^^ ... Except I am lesbian and it does seem to blow the mind of family "But you like women so you normal" (Dad), "No I like women so Im gay. I am a woman that likes other women." (Me), *his world explodes*

Quote from: princessemma on September 03, 2013, 06:36:31 AM
wow, i did not know that.. i thought gay men would understand us better than straight men

And yes there seems to be some tension with gay men and trans. I myself have noticed a distancing of at least two of my gay friends since i first started transitioning.

I have some friends who are gay men, but it seems there are many gay men who are even more obsessed with the size of their dicks than straight men.  To them the very worst thing that could happen to any man would be to lose his.  Do you see the misunderstanding?  I'm not a man who wants to get rid of his dick, I'm a woman who needs correction for an anatomical fault.  I feel this is part of the reason that so called LGBT groups are often of no help at all to the "T" members.

After reading what some of you posted I want to say more.  Please understand I'll always accept help, but:

Most of us just want to be the women we truly are, and then live as ourselves without being singled out for anything else.  We want to blend into a society that many LGB individuals feel rejects them, and this aspect of our transitions confuses the issues they promote.  So if we hinder their immediate needs we often fall behind in their highly defined struggle, and our fight is left for the future (maybe).

Ask how many states have laws specifically related to LGB rights (all).   Then ask how many have states have laws to specifically support transgender individuals (few).   For example in many states we can be arrested for using the wrong restroom without an ID showing our desired name and gender, and this can sometimes fall into a sex crime category where we're marked for life as sexual predators by the law.  Where is the fight to change these laws?  And what about credit and loans, employment protection, health care, and housing discrimination?  I just don't see a lot of LGB individuals fighting for us on these issues, or even asking for changes.

I'd say more, but I'd be making many of you mad.  I'm probably off base anyway.  Sorry.

K

I hate when ignoramuses lump transgirls in with gay men (and transguys with butch lesbians).  That being said, I would never support the T being segregated from LGBT.  If it wasn't for being grouped with 5-15% of the population, the trans rights movement would go pretty unspoken.  I can't imagine our treatments would be at their current level, and we would probably all be diagnosed with just having a mental disorder.  Quite a few of those who are in favor of the current LGBT crusade likely wouldn't support T as a separate entity.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, but I can't see us being in a better place without our LGB "allies."

They are different things and mixing them does create some problems especially with messaging, but it has advantages too.   I don't think SRS would have been added as a criteria for the HRC corporate equality index for instance, which I think is a really big deal because it will make SRS possible for a ton of people it would not have been otherwise.

I guess if it bugs me, there's a bunch of things that bug me more.

No not really, it doesnt bother me, when people tell me im gay/lesbian  I smile and say yes, yes I am. I love women.  They get the weirdest looks on their faces and usually walk away.

I think we belong together because the taboo and bigotry stems from the same space of general discomfort related to oppressive traditional gender expectations. That said, I try to educate people whenever I get the chance about how the two issues are represented by two completely separate spectrums (not black and white), i.e. the gender identification spectrum and the sexual orientation spectrum.

For similar reasons, it demonstrates ignorance when someone says, for instance, that a particular guy is "really gay" because he has very effeminate mannerisms. I tend to correct them and point out that's not what gay or homosexual means. If anything, maybe he's a little bit trans on the gender ID spectrum which would arguably make him less gay than a hyper-masculine man who's attracted to other hyper-masculine men. I could posit that I'm a little less gay on the spectrum because I'm often attracted to men with some feminine characteristics.