Quote from: Melissa on July 07, 2007, 07:09:41 PM
You think I had completed everything when I went fulltime?  Nope.  I had 2 laser sessions beforehand and that was it.  I have been doing laser sessions ever since and have also been getting electrolysis done as well for the past 3 months.  I had been on HRT for only 5 months.  Fulltime is fulltime, not part time or most of the time.  It's as simple as that.

The goal of going fulltime is to be female all the time without ever falling back on the male role so that you can know that you truly can live fulltime as a woman.  If you are still using the male role (by not coming out at work) as a crutch and calling yourself fulltime, then you are circumventing the entire point of the RLE and are thus not fulltime.

I agree absolutely .... full time is what it says, 24/7 .... and above all at work.

Surgical referrals demand usually 12 months RLE, and you owe it to yourself to not cheat on this by twisting the definition to your own ends.

In the UK obtaining a female birth certificate demands (in addition to diagnosis and medical treatments) living fulltime for 2 years .... and the evidence people usually use to prove this is "change of name deed", work payslip / paycheck in female name, bank statement in female name .... things you "can't argue with" !

I too went fulltime way way earlier than I'd planned as I felt I was ready for it just 6 months into hrt, two laser sessions behind me, just 5 weeks after breaking news to parents, 3-4 weeks after telling close work friends, 2 weeks after telling HR. 

I'd never been "part time" unless you count the two weekends when I checked out my "passibility" in public by doing buses, trains, town centre shopping, bars & restaurants (with a male friend), toilets, chatting to strangers ... and this was what convinced me that I could "do it" without hassle, embarassment, or adverse reaction from anyone.  I never did the TS/TV scene and clubs except way back as a 20-something. Guess I was lucky.

The day I went full time was the last day anybody, anywhere, ever saw me as anything other than female  .

Laura x

I'm not using the male role (though I've often felt used by it). I am plotting my escape from it. Stop making it sound like I'm trying to have it both ways. I'm trying to have it only one way.

hang on, so inside the home? i must wear makeup when i get up and slob around?

to me, the first thing i do when i get up, is spend a good hour slobbing around in a mens metalica teeshirt, and my knickers... omg im not FT! the horror! personally by a certain point, clothing matters little, as you are physically female, and really cant be a boy if you try.

Quote from: Rachael on July 09, 2007, 07:49:55 AM
hang on, so inside the home? i must wear makeup when i get up and slob around?

Soon as I get home I rip off that silly "girly" top, skirt / slacks / jeans, and put on my shirt and tie, flannel trousers, cuff-links & braces, and sensible brogues    !!!

Don't we all  ?

Laura x

i did last night, but i still looked like a girl, and it was for a laugh...

For me it means to live 24 hours a day as what I am.  A woman.  Not 2 hrs or 4 hrs or 8 hrs or 3 days a week or seven times a month.  No.  Every day I'm a woman.  Live as woman.  The Society sees me as woman every day.  that's fulltime.

We need to differnetiate between clothes, and full time ,because IMO, one can be full time, and not wear female specific clothing all the time... heck, even wear some mens clothes (my fav baggy jeans) if one looks female 247, i think thats what ft is... A woman is not just made of what she wears...

Quote from: Rachael on July 09, 2007, 10:42:53 PM
We need to differnetiate between clothes, and full time ,because IMO, one can be full time, and not wear female specific clothing all the time... heck, even wear some mens clothes (my fav baggy jeans) if one looks female 247, i think thats what ft is... A woman is not just made of what she wears...

Good heavens!  You can't be full-time!  You take off your dress and makeup when you get in the shower!

Quote from: Hypatia on July 08, 2007, 11:18:40 AM
I'm not using the male role (though I've often felt used by it).

If you're not using the male role, then why are you not out at work yet?  Is it because you don't want to be seen as a transsexual?  Or to possibly lose your job?  Or is it because you don't want to take a chance of being read on a daily basis?  Sorry hon, but that's falling back on the male role.  When you do go fulltime, you face all those risks all the time for the rest of your life.  Until you are ready to face them, you won't truly know whether you can handle being fulltime as a woman.

Quote from: Hypatia on July 08, 2007, 11:18:40 AM
I am plotting my escape from it. Stop making it sound like I'm trying to have it both ways. I'm trying to have it only one way.

Once you have "escaped" from it, then you can consider yourself fulltime.

Quote from: Melissa on July 10, 2007, 12:43:42 PM
When you do go fulltime, you face all those risks all the time for the rest of your life.  Until you are ready to face them, you won't truly know whether you can handle being fulltime as a woman.

Yep. I was really guilty of fooling myself. I told myself I was fulltime... then I'd call myself by the male name during a service call "just this once to make things easier." Then I'd get dressed to go out and put on more androgynous clothes "to just not worry about whether I can pass or not for one night." I didn't tell my dentist I'm going by Kate now because "it's just my dentist, he doesn't really need to know!" I'd go to put on a real bra, then decide "I should be modest and wear the sports bra to flatten things more."

Truth be told, I just wasn't ready to face the risks of being seen as a guy trying to be a girl... probably because I still FELT like a guy trying to be a girl.

It took time... and a whole lotta "oh, the HECK with it!" effort to force through that and realize I'm still ME no matter how people see me. This is me, this is my life, and I'm going to show that to the world in every way I can now.

And you know what? We seem to be getting along JUST fine...

~Kate~

I totally agree, its largely mental, being full time. one must truly belive you are female to suceed at it. otherwise, you will compromise, and fail. To be honest, ive found it rather easy. as it is right for me.

Quote from: Melissa on July 10, 2007, 12:43:42 PM

Quote from: Hypatia on July 08, 2007, 11:18:40 AM
I'm not using the male role (though I've often felt used by it).

If you're not using the male role, then why are you not out at work yet?

Because it takes time to prepare, it doesn't happen all at once. I'm working toward that goal.

QuoteIs it because you don't want to be seen as a transsexual?

I already am! No worries there.

QuoteOr to possibly lose your job?

Not a concern in my case. The management values me highly and doesn't want to lose me. This has already been amply demonstrated and I feel as job-secure as anyone can be.

QuoteOr is it because you don't want to take a chance of being read on a daily basis?

No, I don't care about that. I get read less and less now in public, so each new day is an improvement over the previous day. But in the workplace, it is not open to the public and everyone there knows me already, so getting read by them is beside the point.

QuoteSorry hon, but that's falling back on the male role.

No it isn't.

QuoteWhen you do go fulltime, you face all those risks all the time for the rest of your life.

I'm facing that right now. So what?

QuoteUntil you are ready to face them, you won't truly know whether you can handle being fulltime as a woman.

Baloney. I already am facing all of that every day and know I can handle it for the rest of my life, in fact, I can't wait to begin.

QuoteOnce you have "escaped" from it, then you can consider yourself fulltime.

I am preparing to make it official, but my looks and marital circumstances need more work first. I just got started on laser, and I will need a bit of electro when that's done. A divorce will be inevitable when I make my transition official, and no way am I just leaping into that unprepared.
At work, there's no sense in announcing it prematurely, and then not following through right away, because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is. I know my particular circumstances, where I'm at, and what I need from here on in. You don't know me and cannot pass any judgments on my situation.

i think i agree there, whats to escape other than the physical?
im happy with my 'male' interests, and having some male friends and shock horror, i like beer, and smokeing, i cant be a woman.
I know many women with the same interests as me, and habbits, and thier just as much women as any other. the trans emphasis on femininity and feminine traits for FT and ending your 'male life' are horsecrap, ive never been a man, so i have no 'male' life to end...

I'd just like to point out that if a thread is made in the form of a question, it is obvious that it is going to be answered based on each individual's opinion.  I don't think no one is passing judgements on anyone here.  We are merely expressing our points of view, that's all.  People don't have to agree with our viewpoints, but please let's keep in mind that different opinions is what make a thread a discussion.  Thanks.

tink

Quote from: Rachael on July 10, 2007, 03:28:24 PM
I totally agree, its largely mental, being full time. one must truly belive you are female to suceed at it. otherwise, you will compromise, and fail. To be honest, ive found it rather easy. as it is right for me.

Yes. Exactly. I have no doubts about my womanhood. It's the most natural, comfortable feeling in the world. It continues to grow stronger every day. I am way past the point of no return already.

I would like to quote from a poem by Meena, the founder of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan:

I'm the woman who has awoken
I have found my path and I WILL NEVER TURN BACK

i like that sentiment, if only the western word had such troubles as the middle east and islam for women, equality would be demanded more powerfully. 3rd wave feminism ftw
[/offtopic]

Quote from: Hypatia on July 10, 2007, 07:33:35 PM
I am preparing to make it official, but my looks and marital circumstances need more work first. I just got started on laser, and I will need a bit of electro when that's done. A divorce will be inevitable when I make my transition official, and no way am I just leaping into that unprepared.
At work, there's no sense in announcing it prematurely, and then not following through right away, because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is. I know my particular circumstances, where I'm at, and what I need from here on in. You don't know me and cannot pass any judgments on my situation.

You asked a question and I provided an answer.  I was not judging you, but I was giving my assessment of your situation based on what *you* stated.  You are correct that I don't know you and I can only go by what you tell me, so if If you are not prepared for an answer you may not like, then don't ask a question.  This has happened several times with past members that ask for an opinion and then they don't accept any answer that they don't want to hear.  Almost every one of them left in frustration.  It seems you wanted us to tell you that you are fulltime, but that didn't happen, so your responses became very defensive.  I have given my answer to your question with your own best interests in mind.  If you are going to call yourself as fulltime, then there was really no point in asking the question in the first place.  My opinion still remains that what you described is not fulltime.

Here's my own experience:  I came out to HR about 45 days after I started my new job.  I worked with them to set a schedule for everything including coming out to various people.  I ended up going fulltime 3 weeks later.  Before coming out, I had an androgynous appearance, wore women's clothes, didn't hide my female mannerisms, made friends with mostly women, talked to people in a fairly feminine voice and manner and I was frequently ma'amed outside the building while appearing that way.  Because I was still going by a male name and referred to as a "he" at work, that was androgynous to me.  I considered myself fulltime when I no longer needed to pretend to be a man and I had no more coming out to do.  As of 3 days ago, I have been fulltime for a year now.

I am finalizing my divorce now, so don't think I didn't face the same thing.  Also, I'm still working the same job.

As I stated, this is my opinion and I was only trying to be helpful in my posts.  In the future I will refrain from contributing to your posts.

Quote from: Hypatia on July 10, 2007, 07:33:35 PM
At work, there's no sense in announcing it prematurely, and then not following through right away, because I believe in putting my money where my mouth is...

Keep in mind that employers often *appreciate* advance warning.

~Kate~

discreatly informing employers, and coming out at work, arnt the same thing...

I am so sorry, Melissa, for having spoken insolently! Please pardon my presumption and readmit me into your good graces, ma'am. I didn't think I'd said anything to you that was offensive. I just don't want to be talked down to. I do welcome hearing all opinions on this, if they're respectful. I felt like some of the posts were talking down to me. I've noticed so many trans people try to make themselves feel superior by making others feel inferior and I'm kind of sensitive about that. I also think a lot of the less fortunate ones are made to feel so inferior they don't even come around at all. If I were easily intimidated, I would stay away too because this path is not for the faint of heart. But I strongly believe in myself and do not put up with put-downs. If it was not your intention to put me down, then I hope and believe we can work through our differences like ladies.

Otherwise, I'm grateful to everyone who has shared here. One thing I've learned is that there are a lot of opinions on this subject that don't all agree with one another. So I don't think any one person's interpretation can be final or definitive. The SOC themselves allow for flexibility in interpretation of an individual's course in life. Like I said above, I agree with what Kate posted, the individual ought to be allowed to assess it for herself. If I didn't strongly believe in myself, I couldn't have embarked on this challenging journey in the first place. I respect everyone else's personal boundaries, and always defend my own. I would never never put anyone down, or diss another person's sincere understanding of their life, while at the same time I'm primed to speak up for myself vigorously when I feel disrespected or misunderstood. At times I've had to choose between fighting back or crumpling into despair, and the many attacks I've withstood on the way here have left me wary and on the alert; there could be situations where my life may depend on it (not that this is one, of course). I tend to doubt that anyone lacking a healthy sense of self would stand a chance in this, so once again please pardon me for any unwarranted touchiness.

Quote from: Kate on July 11, 2007, 01:07:11 PM
Keep in mind that employers often *appreciate* advance warning.

Of course. How long in advance?