yes that's like one of the hardest parts of being a trans in a country like this. not in the way you all have posted above, it's just the ignorance of people around here. people know so little about LGBT issues that most of them dont know that bi and trans people actually exist! even i hadnt heard of the word transsexual until i was 17!
so whenever they see a man with girlish features they tag him as gay, and a woman with boyish features as a lesbian. thats what has been delaying my coming out, bcos i need to make at least the people around me know what i am actually. i dont know how many have already tagged me as lesbian. lesbians are not bad, but i dont want to be recognized as something i am not, in a gender which is not mine. plus it sucks to get tagged like that cos then nobody comes near you or speak with you and start whispering when you are around. they surely need more awareness about LGBTs

Don't be so sure about the so-called help the LGB community has "trickled down" our way. Many in medicine would have moved faster to listing this as a genetic disorder sooner, had the politicization of the issue not become so acute with the LGB militancy. I understand the fight for equality by gays and lesbians. (BTW, my gay friends, especially gay women have been terrible to me with their unsolicited advice. Let's call it what it is, unsolicited advice is nothing more than criticism) I understand the significance of TV shows like Ellen and the Will and Grace Show. But where are the transgender hosts? The transgender TV reporters? The transgender politicians in office? They aren't any, to speak of. There's a reason for that, because it's not a political movement, but a genetic disorder that is treated with hormones, surgery, and in most cases, stealth. Once a patient is treated, they more on and assimilate. Not always, but the majority of time when the resources are available.

My case was an international news story, and I coöperated by making the TV show appearances to help spread the word and save a few lives. But, now that I'm getting close to crossing over with surgery, I'm thinking more, and more of stealth, and living an authentic life, that includes a husband, raising another child through adoption, and a white-picket fence.

Love, Zoey

I think we have it as LGBTG primarily as a 'strength in numbers' concept.

But let's look at this a different way.

Lesbians its about sex.
Gays, it's about sex.
Bi, it's about sex.

It's about sex.

TG, it's about me being in the wrong damned body. And who knows, I might hate sex, and then it is not even connected to a preference for who I want in bed eh.

I think to some extent, I'd rather be associated with other groups that deal with prejudice such as black people to give an example. They are black because they were born that way, and it has nothing to do with sex. I am TG, and I was born this way, and who I want to have sex with is not directly relevant. Blacks have dealt with bias against being served or where they can or can't go. The homosexual community to my knowledge don't really experience what we do, after all a cis female lesbian is not going to need to use the men's room and no one really seems to care if a cis female lesbian uses the ladies room and might be scoping out the other women.

I'd rather be known as either a hetero, or a homo or a bi TG and have the choice to decide if I want to make a fuss over my preferences for sex as a separate issue.

I have almost worked my way through reading "Whipping Girl" by Julia Serano and it has been a big help in providing me with the proper language to talk to people about my gender issues.  I think the main pertinent point out of the book that is helpful is describing the situation of misunderstanding between the LGB and the T is the concept of not 1 human sexuality slider but 3.  LGB people sit on the continuum of heterosexual/homosexual, which at this point is generally understandable by the majority of the population, you either like guys or girls, or sometimes you swing both ways.  What people tend to not understand is the other 2 scales that are mostly independent of each other.  Sexual Inclination and gender expression, or male/female and masculine/feminine.  Your biological or genetic gender predisposes you to be more towards one end of each spectrum, and its a very hard concept for people who are all lined up as masculine men who like women and feminine women who like men to grasp that in any given person could sit at any number of infinite combinations of the scales.

EDIT: personally I feel it's great that there is some sense of wanting to provide inclusion, it just seems that LGB has the slightly easier (I say easy as a gross understatement) time in providing the general population with the framework of human sexuality on which they identify.  Pulling out a nerd analogy, it is like when Nehls Bohr built his model of the hydrogen atom complete with the possible energy levels that electrons could inhabit each considered to orbit at some defined distance from the nucleus, only to be found that it was actually far more complicated later where electrons instead form fuzzy probability clouds which make it far harder to pinpoint their exact state.

Quote from: DrZoey on September 03, 2013, 05:42:55 AM
I'm not gay, or even fabulous, for that matter.

Quoted for emphasis /hugs

The whipping girl was a very good book, I especially like the gender identity power triangle. From the work book I identify as trans*, I think I scored a 46.

I was at the William Way LGBTQ Center (Philly) a few months ago waiting to see my therapist. The power had gone out and I was in the lobby sitting in the dark. There were 6 or 7 others in the lobby who were employees and they were talking about their childhoods. In the dark their stories were hurled into the emptiness. I just listened. I sat there thinking, how cool it was, to share their stories in the dark. I remained silent. I will say I felt and feel absolutely safe and welcome there in the dark and in the light.

We are different and yet we need them. Where would my therapist be if not there? I paid $15.80 today for 30 Lavetro pills from a Pharmacy at the Mazzoni center. That is $980 retail. Where would I be without the LGBT Mazzoni center. I also get finasteride there too for $17.80 ( would be $80.00 retail).

I am just getting a grip with being trans. It bothers me if I get mis-orientated.  I point out the difference and see that it does not register. I just remember they are a fish in water and at this point I need allies.

I think LGB want to be considered "normal" and shy away from the trans* association because it is extraordinary and in their eyes reduces their legitimacy.


My boss, when I shared my gender, said I am an Architect and in school there are a lot of gay guys, you are still the same person. I gave him She is not there, Whipping girl and My Gender Workbook. He is part of the Diversity team as an executive sponsor.

Quote from: Just Maddy! on September 02, 2013, 07:17:05 PM
I see the association of LGB and T as being one of political expedience more than anything. And legitimately so. As sexual minorities, we have common interests politically that are better served by coordinating efforts than going it alone. That being said, I do think that it muddies the waters in terms of public perception, reinforcing the misguided perception that T* is a sexuality.

Here's my current toy analogy:

In terms of community politics, T is to LGB as Canada is to the US: they're by far our closest friends but we're uneasy because they numerically overwhelm us.

OMG...we're Canadians!?!



The OP has a point, many non-LGBT people assume that T = Gay or Lesbian

MtF who likes men = gay (because of former male status)
MtF who likes women = lesbian (because of current female status)
FtM who likes men = *pop* (cis-mind circuit breaker fail)
FtM who likes women = lesbian (because of former female status)

Many cis-people also assume that "gay" = "any non-hetero relationship"...for example, two guys who are close friends have to watch it, because if they are "too close", they're gay, whether or not they're actually gay. Two women who are close are automatically assumed to have lesbian tendencies, unless one is in an uber-conservative social click, then "gay" doesn't exist except in San Francisco and in some neighborhoods in NYC...

No matter what, it's just a matter of ignorance to some degree. I try to correct it, but sometimes one just has to walk away.

Does it bother me? Nah...I'm Canadian I have other things to worry about than randomly ignorant people.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 03, 2013, 07:41:32 PM
MtF who likes women = lesbian (because of current female status)
FtM who likes men = *pop* (cis-mind circuit breaker fail)

How exactly are these two different? Shouldn't FtM who likes men = gay (because of current male status) ?

Well colour me confused 

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 03, 2013, 07:41:32 PM
OMG...we're Canadians!?!



The OP has a point, many non-LGBT people assume that T = Gay or Lesbian

MtF who likes men = gay (because of former male status)
MtF who likes women = lesbian (because of current female status)
FtM who likes men = *pop* (cis-mind circuit breaker fail)
FtM who likes women = lesbian (because of former female status)

Many cis-people also assume that "gay" = "any non-hetero relationship"...for example, two guys who are close friends have to watch it, because if they are "too close", they're gay, whether or not they're actually gay. Two women who are close are automatically assumed to have lesbian tendencies, unless one is in an uber-conservative social click, then "gay" doesn't exist except in San Francisco and in some neighborhoods in NYC...

No matter what, it's just a matter of ignorance to some degree. I try to correct it, but sometimes one just has to walk away.

Does it bother me? Nah...I'm Canadian I have other things to worry about than randomly ignorant people.

It's ok to admit to yourself that you're a Canadian in an American body. 

The thing I hate most that I have heard from the GBL community is "If you like women, why not just stay a man, wouldn't it be easier" and "You just want to be a woman so that you don't have to be gay."

I imagine this is why the confusion arises with FtM that like men.

Quote from: Anastasia E on September 03, 2013, 07:54:50 PM
How exactly are these two different? Shouldn't FtM who likes men = gay (because of current male status) ?

Well colour me confused 

You mespellt "color"...LOL 

During the (admittedly few) conversations I've had with cis-hetero people, the FtM has always been the hardest to discuss. Yes, current male status would equate to being gay, but the straight people I've talked to couldn't make that leap to manhood, given the FtM's FAAB body.

And yet...they are male...but...they were female...but...if they're pre-op...arrggh_my_head_!!! *pop*

And of course, my experiences are no doubt different than yours or others...but that's not our problem, it's the cis-hetero who can't be bothered with important things...like learning.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 03, 2013, 08:35:35 PM
You mespellt "color"...LOL 

More Canadian hate?   Kind of ironic that you misspelt "misspelt" hahaha

It doesn't bother me as much as it used to the the T is with the LGB. What does bother is when people claim that all FTMs are lesbians who can't deal with being lesbian and MTFs are gay men who can't deal with being gay. It's the most stupidest thing (after me actually producing the word stupidest ) I've ever heard. What about gay trans men? What about lesbian trans women? What about bisexual transgender people? Aggghhhhhhh.

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 03, 2013, 07:57:08 PM
It's ok to admit to yourself that you're a Canadian in an American body. 

....

It's funny, but I've always been the polite sort, and never quite understood the apparently common rudeness from 90% of AABA (Assigned At Birth American) which give the other 10% a bad name...

I think I am Canadian, deep inside eh? I've always wanted to wear a Touk and drink Moose Drool (which is a beer from Montana, but sounds like it should be Canadian)...

Can I take hormones for this? Is there a surgery to remove or alter my Americaness?

eta: This is not a Canadian-sized effort at derailing this thread. Please ignore it, eh?

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 03, 2013, 08:43:03 PM
Can I take hormones for this? Is there a surgery to remove or alter my Americaness?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index-can.asp

And you don't even need a diagnosis.

Maddy, proud Canadian

Quote from: Beth Andrea on September 03, 2013, 07:41:32 PM
OMG...we're Canadians!?!

Well, that would explain why I like hockey so much.

Anyway...

I'm of the opinion that the LGBT community is not a singular entity, but rather an alliance between the trans community and the much larger LGB community. Like others here, I get incensed whenever people insist we're the same thing, as our needs are totally different. Being gay/lesbian/bi is all about one's sexuality, whereas sexuality has very little to do being trans. I don't mind teaming up with the LGB community to seek common goals, so long as we're not taken for granted.

Quote from: Joey. on September 03, 2013, 08:40:18 PM
It doesn't bother me as much as it used to the the T is with the LGB. What does bother is when people claim that all FTMs are lesbians who can't deal with being lesbian and MTFs are gay men who can't deal with being gay. It's the most stupidest thing (after me actually producing the word stupidest ) I've ever heard. What about gay trans men? What about lesbian trans women? What about bisexual transgender people? Aggghhhhhhh.

and

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 03, 2013, 07:57:08 PM
The thing I hate most that I have heard from the GBL community is "If you like women, why not just stay a man, wouldn't it be easier" and "You just want to be a woman so that you don't have to be gay."

I think this comes down to two things: First, like many cis-gendered people, they have trouble wrapping their heads around the idea that one's gender doesn't always match one's biological sex. In that sense, they're no different than any other cis-gendered person. Compounding that is the second issue: insecurity. They don't comprehend how our genders can mismatch our bodies, so they instead assume that were simply gay people who have internalized too much heteronormativity, and are thus trying to "correct the wrong problem." As such, they see attempts to help us as reinforcing heteronormative attitudes rather than correcting birth defects, or elevating a similarly marginalized people. They misinterpret our existence as an attack on the legitimacy of their own condition and lash out as a result. Sad really.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on September 03, 2013, 02:49:39 PM
The homosexual community to my knowledge don't really experience what we do, after all a cis female lesbian is not going to need to use the men's room and no one really seems to care if a cis female lesbian uses the ladies room and might be scoping out the other women.

Well... not so much NOW. The pace of progress has been stunning. I didn't expect things to be where they are by now. It wasn't very long ago at all that lots of gay men were getting bashed and the idea that they might be checking out straight guys was a big motivation, particularly in places like restrooms and locker rooms where there may be some degree of nudity. Maybe you're very young and don't remember how it was just 10 or 20 years ago. Stonewall was just 40 years ago and it was REALLY bad. It was illegal to be in a bar while gay. Men were getting arrested for not facing the bar, i.e. turning around and looking at people ("cruising").

For those wishing to become Canadian, it is not any easy process.

We don't start fights, but we do love a good fight, just so long as the fight has already started so we are safely able to say we didn't start it. Because then we can really lay into the person that started the fight as it won't be are fault there was a fight. Look at our past, Canadians are often considered the nastiest on the field. WW1 we kicked some serious ass, WW2 we kicked some serious ass, hell there were actually Canadians volunteering to go to Vietnam as we had never kicked ass their before.

The whole peacekeeping deal is mainly as a result (I think myself) a reflection of the fact we just can't afford the toys like the US can. The US likely could solve a lot of it's needs to do this and that and the other thing around the globe, by just hiring Canadians instead. Hey let us have the gear and we will gladly go kick some butt, just so long as the target started the fight first though eh, that's a big rule with us.

That and you need a very high tolerance for absurb food and you need to like cold weather. Odds are if you come from Montana the process is a lot easier. Well I can't say if Montana people eat weird food, but their weather is nasty like ours.

And as Dalebert commented, yeah, I recall my youth, and it was not so long ago, being gay was no easy thing.

Quote from: Alice Danielle on September 03, 2013, 07:57:08 PM
It's ok to admit to yourself that you're a Canadian in an American body. 

The thing I hate most that I have heard from the GBL community is "If you like women, why not just stay a man, wouldn't it be easier" and "You just want to be a woman so that you don't have to be gay."

I imagine this is why the confusion arises with FtM that like men.

isn't that prove our point? that this is not about sex at all.. it's about who we are

Quote from: princessemma on September 04, 2013, 01:00:46 AM
isn't that prove our point? that this is not about sex at all.. it's about who we are

it would prove our point, if they took our answer seriously.

Honestly, it doesn't really bother me. I might politely correct them, and tell them I'm bi, I just want to be female. Because, if women heard I was gay, they'd think I have no interest in them, which isn't true. But even then it's not a huge deal. Heck, a few weeks ago my sister told me she told her friend that I plan on becoming a woman, and her friend asked if that meant I was gay, to which my sister replied "I guess." I still haven't corrected her on it lol. It's not like it's an insult or anything, they're just confused. At least I think so anyway.

I don't like the false image of me the inclusion seem to create, but I guess it's good for political reasons.

About gay people being more open to us than straight, I don't know. Some seem to think we are leaching off their cause and I've come across some raging transphobes in the gay community. I've seen lasbian feminists refer to the neo-vagina as a "second anus" and I've heard gay men say we (us who are mtf anyway) are nothing but men to chicken to accept the fact that we are really just self-loathing gay homophobes.

I have a really nice lesbian couple as friends but generally I try to stay away from gay people. Their threshold for outing trans people seem even lower than among straight people. I have a really close friend who is gay, and earlier this year another friend came to me and told me that said friend likes to share my story with great enthusiasm and lots of laughter in social settings. Apparently he thinks me being trans and having transitioned to be extremely hilarious. I confronted him about it and he told me that he thinks being a transsexual and transitioning was just too extreme and to sensational to keep on the low down.

Also gay people seem better at reading me than straight people, and sometimes they like to really let the world know they've clocked you by hollering, hooting and making sassy remarks. I'd rather be shot dead in the back of the head than go into a gay club.

Profanity edit