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Why Does Top Surgery Cost So Much?

Started by Mosnar_K, September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AM

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Mosnar_K

I was looking into how much top surgery would cost and it said over $7,000. Where in the world do people get money like that? Why doesn't any insurance cover it? How does anyone even get chest surgery? Is there a way that they can just cut breasts off without reconstructing the chest? Would that be cheaper? If someone found a surgeon to do chest reconstruction would it be cheaper to just drive to the place and sleep in the car and not eat anything? And this is off topic kinda but is a gender therapist the only type of therapist that is able to prescribe T?
All is fair in love and war
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Kreuzfidel

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AMI was looking into how much top surgery would cost and it said over $7,000. Where in the world do people get money like that?

Most get it by working their butts off and saving for it for many years.  Some are lucky and get inheritances.  Some don't have to spent that much because their insurance covers most of it or they live in a country that has a fantastic healthcare system that covers some or most of the cost.

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AMWhy doesn't any insurance cover it?

Some insurance does - it depends on the country in which you live (and sometimes the state or territory).  My insurance covers most of it, plus I also have some coverage from the government for a portion.  I live in Australia.

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AMHow does anyone even get chest surgery?

Not really sure what you mean - but generally they save up the money and find a surgeon.

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AMIs there a way that they can just cut breasts off without reconstructing the chest? Would that be cheaper?

There are a few different kinds of "mastectomies", but you won't always get a male-looking chest with the typical procedure used to remove the breasts for a woman with breast cancer.  A reconstruction retains some small amounts of breast tissue in order to give the appearance of a male chest.  As for whether or not just a "whacking of the moobs" procedure would be cheaper - it would depend on a number of factors - where you live, who your surgeon is and in which hospital they are operating.

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AMIf someone found a surgeon to do chest reconstruction would it be cheaper to just drive to the place and sleep in the car and not eat anything?

Well, considering that is dangerous for your health and you obviously are old enough to know that I won't even comment on that further. 

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AMAnd this is off topic kinda but is a gender therapist the only type of therapist that is able to prescribe T?

Therapists can't prescribe anything because they are not medical doctors.  Only a medical doctor can physically prescribe your T - that may mean a GP, endocrinologist, gynaecologist or psychiatrist.
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Mosnar_K

The only people I've ever seen are psychiatrists, I've never seen a therapist. Would I need a therapist or could I just get a psychiatrist?
All is fair in love and war
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thatboyfresh

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 02:33:52 AM
The only people I've ever seen are psychiatrists, I've never seen a therapist. Would I need a therapist or could I just get a psychiatrist?

Hey

It is different every where you go. For instance I live in Canada, British Columbia. And chest ( and bottom ) surgeries are covered by health care. Although for top surgery as of now it is about a 2 year wait list and for bottom surgery they only do 5 guys per year as far as I know. Also, I didn't have to see any therapists or psychologists . I just had to sign a "informed consent form" to get T and an "assessment" by a qualified persons to get on the waiting list. But for guys who arn't that lucky they either save up, get medical loans or insurance to cover it.
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Kreuzfidel

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 02:33:52 AM
The only people I've ever seen are psychiatrists, I've never seen a therapist. Would I need a therapist or could I just get a psychiatrist?

You don't need a therapist.  A psychiatrist would generally be more than sufficient - they can either prescribe T for you if they assess you and determine that you have Gender Dysphoria or they may at least write a letter to a doctor who can then prescribe it for you.
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Arch

Any surgery costs money, and $7000 doesn't strike me as all that much. For a little more than you paid, I got a consultation, about six or eight follow-up visits, a postsurgical truss, some free samples of scar reduction stuff, some medical supplies (including the first dose of pain reduction meds), some free promo items, and the actual surgery. For the surgery, I needed the skills of an anesthesiologist, the surgeon (who had something like twenty years of surgical experience), and, I'm sure, at least one surgical nurse. I also took up space in their preop unit and recovery unit. Part of the package was a complete revision under local anesthesia, and the surgeon's fee was completely waived for that, although I had to pay an additional $300 for the anesthetics he used (I knew about that up front).

If you want an Earl Scheib surgery, by all means find someone who will do it for $29.95. But you probably won't be happy with the results unless you are serious about just chopping off the things and leaving it at that--and I don't think any reputable surgeon would do such a thing. Still, have you shopped around? I hear that Garramone is pretty cheap, but if you come from out of the area, you will likely make up the difference in other costs, such as travel and accommodations.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Mattfromengland

I agree with Arch. For what you are getting it's not a lot of money. A few years back my sister had to emergency brain surgery, luckily in England that's all on the NHS, but we have family who work at the hospital that did it and they said just the surgery would have cost  about £25,000.  (That's nearly $40,000).  This didn't include intensive care, all the hospital stay, transport to the specialist hospital, the ambulance call out, follow up care, etc, etc, etc.

Also for many it may seem impossible, especially as a lot of FTMs looking to get it done are young and haven't built up an income or savings. However compare it with the cost of a car. How many cars are there on the road that cost more than that, either new, or when sold on after a few years? Many people CAN fine that kind of money, even if they borrow.

I'm planning on going to the US so will be paying myself. If I spent that money on a car, the money depreciates and you lose it all anyway, so I think it's money well spent.

However, I'm 39yo and have savings (albeit for my business - which I'm now blowing as I think this is more important).

You will get there!!! Even if it takes some time. Anything in this life is worth fighting for especially this!!!!!


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JaredLeBlanc

Yes, i agree that getting a top surgery is very expensive. I can only get it if i sell my car. Which is a big  inconvenience  but i want to have a flat chest much more than i want to have a car.

Speaking about the bottom surgery, it's RIDICULOUSLY expensive and there is absolutely no way i could afford it. I don't know what i would have to sell to afford it. My flat? Where would i live then?  ??? :(  >:(

I am really jealous that there are countries where both surgeries can be covered by the insurance! I am happy for you guys, you are very lucky. I know the waiting lists are long, etc. but you can get it all for free. There are so many people just like me who can't afford to pay for the surgeries of their own pockets and we happen to live somewhere where stuff like this can't be covered by any sort of insurance, be it National or Private insurance.  >:( :(
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FTMDiaries

Quote from: JaredLeBlanc on September 04, 2013, 08:48:45 AM
Speaking about the bottom surgery, it's RIDICULOUSLY expensive and there is absolutely no way i could afford it.

Yup. FtM bottom surgery is the most expensive SRS available. This is one of the reasons why many guys don't go for bottom surgery. :(

Quote from: JaredLeBlanc on September 04, 2013, 08:48:45 AM
I am really jealous that there are countries where both surgeries can be covered by the insurance! I am happy for you guys, you are very lucky. I know the waiting lists are long, etc. but you can get it all for free.

I know it sounds like we get it for free, but the truth is that we don't get it for free: it's actually very expensive. We pay for it through our ridiculously high taxes and National Insurance, which make it almost impossible for the average British worker to save any money. In fact, most of us are up to our eyeballs in debt.

The upside is that we don't have to go into poverty to pay for our surgery. The downside is a permanently diminished quality of life because we're pretty much left with pocket money after we've given the majority of our earnings to HM's government.





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JaredLeBlanc

Quote from: FTMDiaries on September 04, 2013, 11:00:13 AM
Yup. FtM bottom surgery is the most expensive SRS available. This is one of the reasons why many guys don't go for bottom surgery. :(

I know it sounds like we get it for free, but the truth is that we don't get it for free: it's actually very expensive. We pay for it through our ridiculously high taxes and National Insurance, which make it almost impossible for the average British worker to save any money. In fact, most of us are up to our eyeballs in debt.

The upside is that we don't have to go into poverty to pay for our surgery. The downside is a permanently diminished quality of life because we're pretty much left with pocket money after we've given the majority of our earnings to HM's government.

Well we have incredibly high taxes here too but our health insurance is awful. This is happening in the middle of Europe. I know some people who had cancer and they had to go abroad to work in order to get more money for their own cancer treatment! Because this National Insurance can only cover you up to a certain sum of money and it's not big at all. After that, it's your own problem to get more money. if you wish you can have a Personal Insurance which is a very expensive thing BUT it still doesn't cover a lot of things such as anything related to transitioning from FTM or from MTF. So yeah... everything seems a bit sad over here...
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FTMDiaries

Quote from: JaredLeBlanc on September 04, 2013, 11:22:14 AM
So yeah... everything seems a bit sad over here...

Same here. :( Our NHS likes to pretend that all medical care is free at the point of delivery, but the truth is that our medical treatment is rationed. British citizens are frequently refused treatment (including cancer treatment) and cannot afford to go overseas to get it, so many patients die whilst waiting to be seen. It's very sad.





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JaredLeBlanc

Quote from: FTMDiaries on September 04, 2013, 11:37:00 AM
Same here. :( Our NHS likes to pretend that all medical care is free at the point of delivery, but the truth is that our medical treatment is rationed. British citizens are frequently refused treatment (including cancer treatment) and cannot afford to go overseas to get it, so many patients die whilst waiting to be seen. It's very sad.

Oh... I am very sorry to hear that. :( Well, that's what they tell us here as well - yeah, medical care is free. What they don't tell us is that they can only pay for you up to a certain amount of money. Which is never big at all.

And they can never, NEVER cover your transition costs. You have to pay for your surgeries and your hormones yourself. More than that, you must get your passport changed in order to get your hormones since T can only be given to males and E can only be given to females!
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Taka

i think i'll pay for one top surgery in taxes this year. for my dad's taxes, you could get seven of those surgeries. assuming it costs 7000 usd. trans guys get the surgery through nhs in norway, but i doubt i'll get it. not trans enough (their standards really aren't up to date, and i refuse to lie). and unfortunately for me, i spent my savings on helping a friend in need, now i'll just have to save up again if i want it.

maybe i'm lucky that i earn enough to be able to afford in a fairly short time with some budget management. but it does take getting a job, and that wasn't the easiest thing i've ever done. keeping the job isn't too easy either, it requires a lot of work nearly every day.
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thatboyfresh

I might add although we get surgeries for "free" ( we pay through taxes and health premiums) we do not get to choose which surgeon to see. Reguardless of their results or how skilled they are. Currently in BC there is only one surgeon we're "aloud" to go to and he is not the first choice nor the best choice IMO but since it's "free" we do not get to decide for our selves. If I had the money I would chose to pay instead.
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aleon515

Quote from: Mosnar_K on September 04, 2013, 01:33:42 AM
I was looking into how much top surgery would cost and it said over $7,000. Where in the world do people get money like that? Why doesn't any insurance cover it? How does anyone even get chest surgery? Is there a way that they can just cut breasts off without reconstructing the chest? Would that be cheaper? If someone found a surgeon to do chest reconstruction would it be cheaper to just drive to the place and sleep in the car and not eat anything? And this is off topic kinda but is a gender therapist the only type of therapist that is able to prescribe T?

How do people save for surgery:
Some people save, some people get loans. People get small gifts sometimes. Generally people have a variety of sources for the money. I was lucky that since I am older I am in a financially more secure position than I might have been in my 20s.

Insurance?
Some insurance does cover it, and you should check to see. But trans surgeries are not usually covered. People in some countries have national health care. I am thinking that the Affordable Care Act has some implications for trans people but it is only partially implemented. National health care has some benefits but also some bad things, like less choice for a surgeon and more hoops to jump thru (including time).


Would a simpler surgery be cheaper (my short answer not much)
Well chest reconstruction generally includes resizing the nipples and placing where they should be placed on a male chest which I imagine adds to the cost of the surgery. But there are a lot of flat fees for surgery that have nothing to do with how much surgery is performed or the complexity. You are under for about 90 minutes, you are using the services of a surgeon, anesthesiologist or nurse, specialized surgerical nurses. You are given drugs of various kinds. You are wrapped after surgery. You are using a hospital or center for surgery, etc etc. I think the things I listed are MOST of the cost of surgery. I don't think that surgery itself is cheap and that you would be hard pressed to find surgery which is less than $5000 of any sort at all.

Could you sleep in your car and not eat to save money?
Well sleeping in your car and not eating don't exactly sound like ways to promote your health esp after surgery!!! But people scrimp in other ways for instance stay at friends or find the cheapest possible place with a refrigerator then buy all their meals and eat them in, use public transportation, etc. I know someone who maybe spent half of what I will probably spend doing that stuff. But he was a lot younger than I am now. I think older people generally like a few creature comforts. Also you need someone to take care of you, so your little concept doesn't sound like a way to get an assistant!! "Hey want to come to ________ take care of me and live in my car and eat nothing for a week?" LOL

Getting T?
You don't get T from a therapist. Generally T is prescribed by an endocrinologist or a general practitioner.

--Jay
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CR

Why does top surgery cost so much?

Well, how much do you think it should cost??
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Darrin Scott

Quote from: stenomaster on September 04, 2013, 09:31:37 PM
Why does top surgery cost so much?

Well, how much do you think it should cost??

This. Top surgery is specialized and surgeons go to school for upwards of a decade to become a Dr. Not to mention that medical school is very difficult. I don't mind paying 7,000+ (which isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things) for a surgery with a good surgeon and the assurance that it will be done right.





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aleon515

Quote from: Darrin Scott on September 04, 2013, 09:34:11 PM
This. Top surgery is specialized and surgeons go to school for upwards of a decade to become a Dr. Not to mention that medical school is very difficult. I don't mind paying 7,000+ (which isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things) for a surgery with a good surgeon and the assurance that it will be done right.

Surgery is an inherently expensive thing. They'd much rather you buy drugs or tests or just about anything else. (Not that that would work.. in this case). But it time intensive (takes more than an hour almost regardless of what surgery you have done). Is labor intensive (would take a surgeon, anesthesiologist or nurse, surgical nurses (at least 2), etc., people to man the recovery room, etc). Space intensive (requires a space used only for surgery), etc.  Materials intensive (requires tools and equipment with almost no usefulness outside of surgery. Highly trained people (described above). Besides the surgeon other staff that are trained to do surgery. It's why pretty much the best surgeons don't really charge that much more than the worst. There is nothing at all in that system to save you money.

The only "cheap" surgeries are those which are very small (removable of small moles for instance) or dental surgeries which are done in a doctor's or dentist's office.



--Jay
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