Uhm, with all that considered, I'm not so sure I understand anymore. Why in this situation are you bothering with going as remotely male? Sounds like it's a pain, but what's the goal?

And uh, dunno, honestly. Whether they accept to call someone (especially in "official" communications like a business email address) something different from their real name is up to them, I guess. But what do you lose by asking? Though I have a feeling that asking them to call you your female name sort of equals a coming-out, no?

I'm sure there's a meaning behind all of this, but I can't seize it right now.

Quite a passionate exchange and probably no one fits all answer, all the more so as it is all about fit, isn't it ?      (my apologies for the pun! )

I have been in a similar situation to Joanna for over a year now with just one significant difference, I don't have big boobs,  somewhere between A and B. I do however have shoulder lenght hair which I wear in a ponytail to work, beardless face and arms and far more feminine facial features than pretty well any guy of my age.

Also, even dressed male, (when traveling for example)   I have been Madamed regularly by third parties in front of colleagues and I know from those that I have come out to, about ten people now, that lot's of people have asked questions about my gender.

All of that being said, what people notice most is the work I do, so, even if my appearance raises a few eyebrows, I have no reason to believe it has been a problem internally . Basically, people are mostly sensitive to change and the people I work with are now used to seeing an unusually feminine looking manager and probably only give any thought to it when a third party, who meets me for the first time,  brings it to their attention again.

Regarding dress, I have also arrived at a stage where dressing as a guy is almost painful and I haven't bought a single item of mail clothing since 2011. In my place of work, standard is business casual to casual casual, very like what Joanna described.

I mostly dress at the casual, casual end of this spectrum wearing almost exclusively female clothing ie. jeans (Levi's  demi curve, size 30, for me as I also have a few curves, especially my rear end.. ), chinos, blouses (mixtures of cotton & silk for example) , woman's leather jacket, women's casual shoes etc..

Even with my smallish boobs I still avoid tight fitting blouses though as they would make even my breasts look too obvious and while I have clothes something  like those in the picture above (closer fitting though), which in my opinion woud be very feminine with a little jewelry and nice shoes, I have not yet worn them to work. That will happen when I can finally come out to everyone and even then, I would consider that pretty formal, on par with suit shirt and tie for a guy.

So Joanna, while I believe you should at least come out to your boss very rapidly (I did that with mine one month after staring my new job), if you don't yet feel ready to come out to everyone, I think it is pretty easy to find sufficiently androgynous female to be able to dress comfortably and still maintain a minimum of stealth until you and/or your company are OK with making your status public.

Wishing you every success no matter what!
Hugs
Donna     

Kia Ora Joanna,

Metamorphosis means "gradual change" and this is what most trans-people do/have done/are still doing...
They start with the slightly andro look (Pupa/Cocoon) and 'gradually' progress(Gradual Pupation-body plus clothing transformation)through the androgynous stage...Some take months (even years) to complete their metamorphosis...

So enjoy the androgynous journey...there's no rush...

Metta Zenda

What do you do when your body no longer agrees to be hidden? C-cup boobs for example?

Quote from: A on September 07, 2013, 01:51:34 PM

• Uhm, with all that considered, I'm not so sure I understand anymore. Why in this situation are you bothering with going as remotely male?
  
  Though I have a feeling that asking them to call you your female name sort of equals a coming-out, no?

Well I am asically going to dressed as a man, kinda. And androgynous femme man. There is not other option. that is as male as it gets. I got in a huge fight with my mom and long story short I basically have to leave. She said that she doesn't care about it, doesn't believe it and thinks I am being influenced or something or that it's "Learned", and I need her to take me to the train otherwise I have to bike. Thing is she said she is ashamed of me and worries someone she knows will see me on the streets. The horror. I'm like Pygmalion to her or the ugly step sister.

Yesterday she was so nice until she saw the pants and shirt/blouse I bought. I took them back and bought andro male clothes. I have to choose my battles. the one shirt I bought is a snap on shirt with pearlish snaps and is white with light purple verticle stripes, the other buttown down shirt has smal olive polka dots on it, I also have women's flats that are kinda andro as men's shoes don't fit, I also have a blue striped shirt that is the most male but I am wearing that with women's grey slacks that are cute and are androgynously female. They make my butt look fab. I also have a woman's watch that is kinda andro as men's watches don't fit and I am going to wear a small, semi-delicate silver necklace. I wish I had some rings. Either way, when I shop, and took back these sports bras she asked why I was returning them and I told her they were the wrong size and I thought it said 34. She thought I was female without a doubt. Even in these clothes I will come off as very femme. they won't masculinize me the way a suit can and the shirts are slim fit so they will show off my shape, but still they are from the men's.

As far as the name, it all depends on if they created it yet. I imagine they didn't. They will prolly ask what I prefer to be called: matthew or matt, hopefully. And I will tell them matty. But we'll see. I'll say it is what everyone calls me which is true and people just do I never asked. It might raise an alarm but I don't know. this is all just a plan and I may change it depending on circumstance. But if I can get the Matty on my email and articles I write it would be fabulous and make my life easier in the future.

Quote from: Donna Elvira on September 07, 2013, 02:23:57 PM
All of that being said, what people notice most is the work I do, so, even if my appearance raises a few eyebrows, I have no reason to believe it has been a problem internally . Basically, people are mostly sensitive to change...

Regarding dress, I have also arrived at a stage where dressing as a guy is almost painful and I haven't bought a single item of mail clothing since 2011. In my place of work, standard is business casual to casual casual, very like what Joanna described.

That;s why I am trying to make it easier in the beginning by being andro. We'll see how it goes. but it's my attitude and work that counts, I hope. As long as I can remain pleasant, and I should be able to as I am very happy, all I have to do is my job and do it extremely well. That's my goal more then the clothes.

And yes it will be painful being dressed kinda male after dressing female and being treated female all summer, but i need to sacrifice for SRS. it's only temporary and I will come out. I juts need to leave my house and be an excellent employee first and make them love me. My BF says I'm very adorable and lovable so I just need to be myself. And in any event, I'll look female because I look female. The only thing that can change that is a suit and as soon as I untuck the shirt on the suit, i look female.

Quote from: SamC on September 07, 2013, 05:19:44 PM
What do you do when your body no longer agrees to be hidden? C-cup boobs for example?

I have a sports bra but it only got me down to a C. It is constricting my band size to 31 inches and bust size to 34 inches. I am actually nearly a D now. My band size is 32 and my bust is 36. So yeah, this only could get me busted! Ha! couldn't resist.

Oh, and thanks Kuan Yin. I totally agree. Slow and steady wins the race. There is no rush. 

Oh, the name. I'm completely clueless with English names, so I thought Matty was your chosen female name.

And uh, I'm still not following on the clothes. x.x You said why you're not going as 100 % male, but you didn't say why you're not going as 100 % female. You don't live with your mother, do you? Does she still have such a strong influence on your choices that you feel forced to still wear stuff that is more male than you'd like?

And heh, I hear you on "why do you need it so much?". Before, my mother used to tell me she didn't see the hurry, that I should just do like XYZ lawyer she saw on TV and get a career and family before doing it at maybe 40 years old, that it would be easier then. Yeah, right! My mother's open-mindedness was always rusty and limited, haha.

yeah I still live with my mom... for now or I would be going in clothes that are way more femme. the reason I don't go 100 percent female is I want to feel the place out because I went to the interview in a suit. I mean I look really female today in the face so I won't be able to hide it for very long if even one day. Plus the sports bra is too painful. I am not going to wear it. They are meant to be worn for an hour or so while you exercise. not all day at work to bind. It's to stop bouncing. that's it. plus, They are still big even in it. I guess we'll see. I have a feeling they know something is up on some level. What 30 year old man weighs 130 lbs and has a compltely smooth "pretty like a girl" face

You're almost a D cup after six months of hormones?? What the actual frack?! I want my money back.

Quote from: Isabelle on September 08, 2013, 10:54:04 AM
You're almost a D cup after six months of hormones?? What the actual frack?! I want my money back.

Yeah I'm pretty happy about it. TBH, by the time I was 11 i was prolly a tanner stage 1. My chest became slightly elevated. Not much but it was no longer flat at all. And this is the time you are supposed to start becoming stronger and I remember looking in the mirror and being like it looks like I'm grwing boobs. I started researching intersex condtions but I never really matched the descriptions and I was 11 and though I was/am smart it was kinda over my head.

by 12, I saw a a show with transsexuals on it. I think it was Phil Donahue. After that I idetified as a transsexual and have since. But by the time I was 18 I had noticable boobs and everyone said stuff. "hey look Mal (thats what people called me) has boobs." "What are you like a B cup?" I wasn't fat in fact i was about 118 lbs. My thighs grew too and now I have stretch marks everywhere on them. Plus, I looked like a girl. I shaved my head and people were like "You look like Manson girl now. All you need is the swastika on your head."

So I think I have some type of hormonal disorder. Don't know. But it certainly wasn't normal development. I never fully virilized either. But my point is I started at like a 36A/B. I wasn't expecting this much but Im not complaining lol

That's awesome not to sound pervy but.... I kinda wanna see :p two and a half years or so of titty skittles has me barely at a 32b... You can imagine my jealousy....

Quote from: Isabelle on September 08, 2013, 11:41:42 AM
That's awesome not to sound pervy but.... I kinda wanna see :p two and a half years or so of titty skittles has me barely at a 32b... You can imagine my jealousy....

Well for five bucks lol jk maybe i just will show a body shot. Personally i think they look like Bs but the cloth tape measure say otherwise. they def don't look like Ds. Not at all. i dont care if there is a four inch difference or not. I should prolly try on my clothes to see if they are noticable. But damn is that sports bra uncomfortable. Are they supposed to be that way? I bought a bigger one and it was just way loose and the 34 is super tight. i couldn't work in it all day.

I don't know...I *feel* like dressing androgynously in a business environment seems difficult. To me, either you dress as M or F. That's only because the styles are so different. Even the "masculine" women's business clothes are feminine in nature. I also think that style you posted a picture of is total female. The shirt definitely. @A, I'm sorry to disagree with you   It's the collar that really does it. Male collars stop a little closer to the buttons and are less loose. Not to mention the hip area on the pants that is pretty absent in male pants. But, as Joanna said, they were in fact, women's clothes.

From all of the guy business casual/casual clothes that I've seen/wore, all of them are tighter fitting, especially the shirts/jackets/sweaters/vests. The women's are a little  more loose. It would definitely raise suspicion in my part of the world to wear something like that as a guy. Though it wouldn't matter for the job, but it would confuse people..."what do we call you?"

Of course it's up to you and if you're comfortable, but I think if you're going to do it, go for it.

Well I went, it was awesome, and I stll got ma'amed in those clothes and my boss kept showing me the women's restroom's lol and then said use whatever one you want. it's a small office. IDK

That's awesome! You go girl!

Guess you don't need to come out any more either.

Great to see how this turned out, Joanna !

With six months waiting to begin HRT with basically nothing else to do, i did some of what you did.  Shopped.  Carefully.  I am pleased to report that for the first time _ever_ in my life, cis women are complimenting me on my look and on items of clothing. 

It means so much to me, being noticed and feeling attractive to others.  Could it be, because I personally feel confident and attractive, and give that vibe?  When not looking in a mirror,I  sometimes forget that i'm presenting as male...  Or, could it be that I'm getting some respect as a fashion trailblazer, wearing that which most men wouldn't be brave enough to wear?

Joanna, the Katherine Hepburn Rebel Chic look that you showed us, was made 'safe' for cis women to wear in public and professionally by a generation of women who really had to struggle for acceptance and respect:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/12/katharine-hepburn-rebel-chic_n_1960010.html

So today it's finally considered feminine     Woooooot !!!!

You can see quite a bit of this on sites like etsy; for example:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/157666354/vintage-1940s-pale-blue-wool-womens

I like it !!!

Cheers,
Karla

Guess times are better. I had a job interview in the '90s under similar circs - maybe I was 28 - it was really annoying and sort of funny at the same time. They went to this trouble, and there were about six people sitting in on it in this dauntingly large meeting room. So I showed up and... well, The End. "We only called you in for a chat and sefkhdg dgf sekghsgkjhser dfbgmmbg..." Absolute gibberish, trying to get around the fact that one look at me was enough. But then I had no properly formal clothes for such, and although overall it was acceptable I looked like a total hash. Wore a very heavy sweater to hide boobs. Got caught in rain on the way too just to make me an even more (not so) hot mess. And BTW I was only following shrink's orders. Get a job before because they can't fire you on a job for that reason. (In THEORY.) I was like, "Okay, I tried!" I wasn't heartbroken though. Just wanted to show willing.

Well now that I have to present sem-male I get laughed at and called names and this guy today was like "What's up DUDE?" Implying that I'm not a dude. Then hi and his friends all laughed. I must still look like a chick because I was plugging in my phone charger on the train and the conductor yelled at me from like 50 feet away "Miss, you can't plug that in there. Some one might open that door." No one laughed or whispered or implied, wow that's a chick. People looked but it was like they just aceepted it. But Im getting a lot more hostility from men too. Hostility I didn't receive presenting female. Then I got hit on a lot. it's weird. I don't like it but oh well. I kepp my eyes on the prize: SRS.

Quote from: smile_jma on September 09, 2013, 04:46:24 AM
I don't know...I *feel* like dressing androgynously in a business environment seems difficult. To me, either you dress as M or F. That's only because the styles are so different. Even the "masculine" women's business clothes are feminine in nature. I also think that style you posted a picture of is total female. The shirt definitely.

Yup. it was next to impossible to find andro women's business attire. I found one or two shirts ad they were $10o. I get paid this friday so hopefully Ill start laser this weekend. I imagine it will make me look even more femme.

I'd really like it though if you could explain why you have to masculinize yourself for that job. I'm really not following.