Hi, I am new here (although I have lurked before). I have been on a long journey transitioning back to my natal gender.  I move slowly - it took me a long time to transition the first time and now it is taking me almost as long to transition again.

After thinking about this for awhile I have decided I am going to start blogging about this - at retransition.org .  There is part of me that doesn't want to spend any more time writing or thinking about trans issues as there are other areas of my life I am much more interested in.  But I also think some of what I am going through, some of my observances  and some of what I am learning might be helpful to others. And of course I still have a lot to learn so connecting with others might help me navigate through some of this stuff.  I am hoping be part of a conversation that is not hurtful toward anyone in the TG community.  Due to my life experiences I will always be a part of this community and I have a lot of respect for many of the people here.  I prefer using the phrase "RE-transitioning" to "DE-transitioning" in that the latter implies going backwards or giving something up which is not what I am talking about.  I am not going back to anything - my original transition was a growing experience for me and this second one is as well.    I think we all continue to grow after the first transition - for some of us though it means revisiting our natal genders.  (And from, what I gather, for some people this is followed yet again by another transition).

I am hoping that retransitioning is an option that more people will talk about in the future. I understand the reasons why it can be considered "taboo" and that tales such as mine can certainly be used as ammunition for the forces of suppression and bigotry.  However, I also think that for the dialogue about gender to go forward this is a subject that is going to have to be addressed more than it has been. 

There is a lot of great advice on the web and resources for people making that first transition.  Unfortunately there are not enough for people who may need to retransition and I hope to do my small part to help change that.  I would appreciate any pointers to resources for those retransitioning as well as any advice on how to tell this story in a way that is constructive for all concerned.   I hope to talk about some of this on my blog, or if there was a "retransition" or even "detransition" support group here this would be a great place too.

J.

Quote from: retransition on September 08, 2013, 09:05:07 PM
Hi, I am new here (although I have lurked before). I have been on a long journey transitioning back to my natal gender.  I move slowly - it took me a long time to transition the first time and now it is taking me almost as long to transition again.

After thinking about this for awhile I have decided I am going to start blogging about this - at retransition.org .  There is part of me that doesn't want to spend any more time writing or thinking about trans issues as there are other areas of my life I am much more interested in.  But I also think some of what I am going through, some of my observances  and some of what I am learning might be helpful to others. And of course I still have a lot to learn so connecting with others might help me navigate through some of this stuff.  I am hoping be part of a conversation that is not hurtful toward anyone in the TG community.  Due to my life experiences I will always be a part of this community and I have a lot of respect for many of the people here.  I prefer using the phrase "RE-transitioning" to "DE-transitioning" in that the latter implies going backwards or giving something up which is not what I am talking about.  I am not going back to anything - my original transition was a growing experience for me and this second one is as well.    I think we all continue to grow after the first transition - for some of us though it means revisiting our natal genders.  (And from, what I gather, for some people this is followed yet again by another transition).

I am hoping that retransitioning is an option that more people will talk about in the future. I understand the reasons why it can be considered "taboo" and that tales such as mine can certainly be used as ammunition for the forces of suppression and bigotry.  However, I also think that for the dialogue about gender to go forward this is a subject that is going to have to be addressed more than it has been. 

There is a lot of great advice on the web and resources for people making that first transition.  Unfortunately there are not enough for people who may need to retransition and I hope to do my small part to help change that.  I would appreciate any pointers to resources for those retransitioning as well as any advice on how to tell this story in a way that is constructive for all concerned.   I hope to talk about some of this on my blog, or if there was a "retransition" or even "detransition" support group here this would be a great place too.

J.

Kia Ora Re,

Was there any outside pressures to conform either way ?

It's different strokes for different folks...So no judgement on my part , I'm just just curious....

Metta Zenda

I think there have always been some outside pressures but there has also been a lot of support. A lot of people were surprised and thought it was just some insecure phase I was going through and that I wouldn't really go back to my birth gender.   In my case though it just didn't feel right any more.  Which is weird because I had been so sure before.  After 5 years of seriously considering this and taking baby steps I still feel I am on the right path. I am going to try to get my id changed back to original gender tomorrow.  And then I get to deal with all the fun paperwork stuff again (no one should have to go through that twice!)

The funny thing is that even though I have cut my hair and dress as a guy I still get called "ma'am" 90% of the time when I am out, which surprises me. It is awkward because I am never sure what gender (or gender expression) someone is reading from me.  It is a weird social space to navigate.  One of my doctors wants me to start testosterone - I tried it for about a month and had problems with it but I might go back on it again.  It might help with my appearance.  I am out of shape and "frumpy" so trying to get a little bit more toned.

By the way - I did a search of these forums for "detransition" and have found tons of fascinating stuff to read - there have been some really good conversations on the subject here.

Thanks for the welcome Joules.  I think having all options open is important.  We only get one life (as far as I know anyway) and we need to be who we need to be. Nobody should be trapped into anything, whether it be a "birth gender" that is unbearable to live in or their post-transition gender identity that no longer feels right for them.  There is a high suicide rate in our community and having people recognize possibilities that perhaps are a little hard to see might achieve a small bit in the way toward helping some of us get through life. (I am a realist though and I know this is not the answer for everything!) 

Kia Ora Re,

Did you have doubts (and I mean major DOUBTS) prior to transitioning the first time ?

Did you loose family members and friends over it ?

Have you had genital surgery ?

Your thread opens up a whole heap of questions especially of where these 'retransitional' thoughts sprang from...

There's no doubt that "blending' into main stream society as one's preferred gender is very beneficial  (ie, not having to face discrimination/ridicule  because of ones looks ), however if other 'pressures' are involved this could cause major psychological problems, ie lose of family members which produce thoughts along the lines of "Have I done the right thing ?" "I miss my family and friends" etc etc, thoughts like this can continually nag away at a person, bringing them to breaking point...

As I say, your thread does bring up a lot of questions that must be answered by those pre transistion members...

Metta Zenda    

Hey Retranstion welcome to Susan's I wish you luck on your journey back to your birth gender. I'm curious have you ever thought you may be bi gender or androgynous maybe you'll never feel right in either gender and maybe you belong in the middle instead of trying to be either male or female. 

Oh man - I just had a long reply disappear when I tried to post. GRRRRRRRR!
The short version:
I am confident I am a guy.  I am excited about being a guy.  I don't think I am am female or bigendered.  I think I was confused for awhile.  I think I identified some traits in myself as being more feminine when they are actually not really intrinsic to either gender. 
I also think I was dishonest with myself about my motivations.  I do think being a girl was a bit of a turn on for me.  Of course after dressing as female became routine it lost any erotic component.  I remembered the first few times when I did get dressed that there there was a bit of an eroticism to it but I told myself "well you finally looking like you want to and you are feeling sexy - it has nothing to do with a fetish."  I actually felt a bit of resentment of being placed in the same "umbrella" with heterosexual crossdressers - surely they had nothing in common with me.  In my mind I was the "real deal".  Looking back on it though I see I was talking myself down the wrong path and being dishonest with myself. 
I don't think that having any erotic feelings about changing genders should by definition preclude anyone from going down this path but in my case it wasn't what I wanted to be about.  And there are other things in life that I am more interested in and to be honest I think I am more interesting with a male identity than a female one.

Quote from: Kuan Yin on September 08, 2013, 10:58:13 PM
Kia Ora Re,

Did you have doubts (and I mean major DOUBTS) prior to transitioning the first time ?


Did you loose family members and friends over it ?

Have you had genital surgery ?

Your thread opens up a whole heap of questions especially of where these 'retransitional' thoughts sprang from...

There's no doubt that "blending' into main stream society as one's preferred gender is very beneficial  (ie, not having to face discrimination/ridicule  because of ones looks ), however if other 'pressures' are involved this could cause major psychological problems, ie lose of family members which produce thoughts along the lines of "Have I done the right thing ?" "I miss my family and friends" etc etc, thoughts like this can continually nag away at a person, bringing them to breaking point...

As I say, your thread does bring up a lot of questions that must be answered by those pre transistion members...

Metta Zenda    

I did have some doubts - I started transition a few times before it finally took.  However, once I actually did transition I felt really confident that I had made the right choice.  I did lose some friends but gained new ones.  Family stuck with me (most of them) and became even closer.  I even spent a few extra years in RLT just to be sure.  All of the "gatekeepers" thought I was a great candidate for SRS and by that time I did too.

I just enjoy being a guy again now.  For me my identity is that I am male and always have been.  I had some confusion and went on a path that may or may not have been avoidable to get to where I am now.

Hello "J," pleased to meet you.  Thank you for posting your experiences.  I have a question for you.  Why is it you believe one can change their gender identity?  I believe gender identity is innate and largely immutable.

One can change their gender expression at will.  One can surgically change their body to approximate their gender identity.  But I really wonder if one can leave the "birth gender."

Hi Jamie,
I don't believe one can deliberately change their gender identity.  I agree with you that in most cases it is fixed (although I have heard of a few exceptions.)  In my case I think I was misinterpreting my own gender identity as "female" when now I can see it was male all along.  I will try to articulate it more tomorrow as I am dead tired now but it is a really good question and I want to answer it correctly (which will actually be helpful to me.)  Thanks.

You're very honest to yourself and others and very brave too!

Very good you reconsidered your (true) gender before having undergone SRS.

Thanks Dahlia for kind words. I didn't say that I had this reconsideration before SRS though.  That would have been helpful but I don't dwell on anything. It is what it is and I need to move forward with the situation as it is now.  I don't want to get hung up on "regret" because all along I only did what I sincerely felt was right for me based on my situation and the information available at the time.

Quote from: Jamie D on September 09, 2013, 01:02:42 AM
Hello "J," pleased to meet you.  Thank you for posting your experiences.  I have a question for you.  Why is it you believe on can change their gender identity?  I believe gender identity is innate and largely immutable.

One can change their gender expression at will.  One can surgically change their body to approximate their gender identity.  But I really wonder if one can leave the "birth gender."

Thinking about this a little more today I think that in my case I was mistaking the desire to have a certain gender identity with the core gender identity itself.   It was really hard for me to see that those were two different things.  I think others probably struggle with this as well.  In my case I got so caught up in a dream that it became my reality, or at the very least obscured the underlying reality behind it. 

Thanks for the great question.  I know I am going to be journaling and blogging about some of the questions it raises within myself.

As far as your last point about not being able to ever leave the birth gender totally behind of course you are right. 

Kia Ora J,

I can understand why a person who "is" transsexual (their core identity being opposite to their birth gender) 'de-transitioning' due to family, religious-community pressures or not being able to handle the ridicule and rejection (sadly some do face this-having to run society's gender gauntlet on a daily bases)...

So, due to your somewhat unusual circumstances, if you don't mind, I have a few more questions:

Are/were you gay/bi/pan-sexual ?

You use the term "confident" as in " I am confident I am a guy.  I am excited about being a guy.  I don't think I am am female or bigendered."

Do you still feel any need/desire to 'crossdress' ?

Or are you over it ?

My apologies if I come across as prying but your situation intrigues me...Have you heard of Charles(Samantha) Kane ? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1026392/A-British-tycoon-father-man-woman---man---knows-hed-be.html

What you do, is what you do, you have made your decision, and I can only wish you well on your venture...But this doesn't stop miss Curiosity's snooping 

Metta Zenda

Hi again Kuan,
I have heard of Mr. Kane.  When I first started considering retranstioning the people I read about (including him) were all people that I really couldn't relate to.  It seems like in the last year there are a lot more people talking about detransition or retransition in a more open and realistic way.  Over the past few nights I have been reading people's stories of retransition (including some threads here on Susans) and have been impressed by the honesty and thought that went into of a lot of the conversations.

I like women - after I transitioned I had a few fleeting relationships with guys but I think I am basically a heterosexual guy although I am not currently sexually active.  I started dressing in frumpy unisex clothing (a lot of t-shirts and sweats) quite awhile back and it has slowly morphed into male. 

I have not had any desire to dress femme for many many years except for one very bizarre period.  It is a complicated and deeply personal story and I want to make sure when I do talk about it I do it the right way. You are right in that I guess although I am expressing confidence now an experience like I had taught me how quickly things can change.  I do feel though that I am arriving about truths about my own perception of identity that will remain permanent. 

Kia Ora J,

Thanks for answering the questions...Last questions : Are you a member of any 'religious' group eg a church group/congregation ? In other words do you attend a place of worship ? And if so how long have you been attending ?

BTW nowhere in your posts have you made it clear as to whether or not you have had genital surgery, so a simple "yes" or "no" will do... Have you "had" the surgery ?

I wish to cross all the "Ts" and dot the "I"...Thanks...

Metta Zenda

Kuan, I am an avowed agnostic.  My retransition has nothing to do with needing to "get right with Jesus" or a return to orthodox or fundamentalist religious values.  I believe that "conversion therapy" is a sham.  It is funny though because I realize that some of my thinking on my identity WAS shaped by what could technically called "religion", namely a number of modern ecumenical followers of Buddhism. In particular the works of Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron (both of whom are very LGBT friendly) did give me insights into how I was dealing with my gender identity.   One of the concepts that Chodron talks about in her book "When Things Fall Apart" is a primary tenant of Buddhism - that to alleviate the suffering that is inherent in life we are always "grasping" for things that will provide relief.   A lot of people always want "more" and they think if they get it they will be happier (and it does provide temporary relief.)  It is a never ending quest though.  I did see myself going down this road with a lot of things in my life - my gender journey was just one of them - and although I think it is unrealistic to eliminate all such desires I did want to become more mindful of them when they arose and choose to act or not upon them in an engaged manner.  As Thich Nhat Hanh says "Present moment, wonderful moment".  I was being so wrapped up in how things weren't or how I wanted them to be in the future I was missing a lot of the wonderful things in life happening this instant.

Question 2: Yes

Quote from: Joules on September 10, 2013, 02:30:19 PM
Supplemental question to the above:

I assume you were on HRT to start the process.  Have you stayed on HRT the whole time since, or have you drifted off taking one or the other part of HRT?  (I do recall you said you had recently tried T again, but it didn't seem right to you.)

I stopped taking estrogen about a year after SRS because I was afraid I was going to have a heart attack.  I was a very heavy smoker (quit for 5 years though now) and have heart disease in my family and I was reading about the risks for natal women to be undertaking HRT and I figured that there was a good chance I was at risk too.

Quote from: retransition on September 09, 2013, 02:44:38 AM
Hi Jamie,
I don't believe one can deliberately change their gender identity.  I agree with you that in most cases it is fixed (although I have heard of a few exceptions.)  In my case I think I was misinterpreting my own gender identity as "female" when now I can see it was male all along.  I will try to articulate it more tomorrow as I am dead tired now but it is a really good question and I want to answer it correctly (which will actually be helpful to me.)  Thanks.

Okay, I can see that.

Quote from: retransition on September 10, 2013, 02:47:59 PM
Kuan, I am an avowed agnostic.  My retransition has nothing to do with needing to "get right with Jesus" or a return to orthodox or fundamentalist religious values.  I believe that "conversion therapy" is a sham.  It is funny though because I realize that some of my thinking on my identity WAS shaped by what could technically called "religion", namely a number of modern ecumenical followers of Buddhism. In particular the works of Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron (both of whom are very LGBT friendly) did give me insights into how I was dealing with my gender identity.   One of the concepts that Chodron talks about in her book "When Things Fall Apart" is a primary tenant of Buddhism - that to alleviate the suffering that is inherent in life we are always "grasping" for things that will provide relief.   A lot of people always want "more" and they think if they get it they will be happier (and it does provide temporary relief.)  It is a never ending quest though.  I did see myself going down this road with a lot of things in my life - my gender journey was just one of them - and although I think it is unrealistic to eliminate all such desires I did want to become more mindful of them when they arose and choose to act or not upon them in an engaged manner.  As Thich Nhat Hanh says "Present moment, wonderful moment".  I was being so wrapped up in how things weren't or how I wanted them to be in the future I was missing a lot of the wonderful things in life happening this instant.

Question 2: Yes

Kia Ora J,

Thanks for clearing this up for me...

Buddhism and the art of  'non-attachment', whether it be to material things, thoughts, ideas, beliefs, can be a tricky business for some, but not impossible...

Thus I have heard the Buddha did say to end 'Dukkha' (unsatisfactoriness)  one must give up craving ("desire")...But if one finds this too difficult then don't 'desire' to give up 'all' desire, and if one finds this a problem, then don't desire to be successful in giving up all desires ! =The outcome, the "middle way"...

I wish you well...


Happy mindfulness

Metta Zenda