I think it's good for us to be included in LGBT, but I wish the T was more included. It's kind of frustrating when something claims to be LGBT when they are really only referring to LGB. I also feel kind of left behind. I mean, it's great that there have been so many strides in LGB rights, but I'm still waiting for bill C-279.
In short, I think it's good for us to be included, but I want the T to be less silent.

While I'm bisexual and trans, I've experienced more severe discrimination and violence from within the LGB community due to my trans status as opposed to outside it. When straight cis people are more understanding and respectful of you as a person than people who are supposedly supposed to be part of your community, it becomes quite...How should I put this? Irritating? No, I'd say it's more that it sours the thought of being associated with them for *that* aspect of my existence.

I participate with LGB folks for issues of sexuality, etc, but never my gender. I feel that lumping in gender identity and sexuality together can be problematic, especially considering how many don't even know what the T stands for and ignore trans issues in favor of LGB ones. Not to say that these aren't important, because they certainly are, but it becomes grating to be thrown in under the label when your rights and safety do not matter to the majority of the community.

Big name equal rights groups also have long histories of transphobia and shoving transgender members of the community under the bus, and while some may seem apologetic to avoid controversy, the fact is that many do not change their ways and continue to silence trans people who speak up against them. These are the main reasons I have such disdain for having the T with LGB, despite technically being "both", and often prefer to think of each community's issues separately.

The thing that convinced me that the T should be there is this: that really the reason for discrimination against gay people has to do with gender presentation not sex. In fact people may not even knwo the sexual practices of someone as they are private. What they know about is gender presentation, and that's practically it. Many gays have a gender presentation that is not the same as other people and the same goes for trans people. They may not really know this but they need us. And we are a larger group if they are included, though it does irk me that in some areas there is discrimination, by gays against trans. And I have seen some nasty language.

--Jay

Quote from: Edge on September 11, 2013, 11:27:01 AM
I think it's good for us to be included in LGBT, but I wish the T was more included. It's kind of frustrating when something claims to be LGBT when they are really only referring to LGB. I also feel kind of left behind. I mean, it's great that there have been so many strides in LGB rights, but I'm still waiting for bill C-279.
In short, I think it's good for us to be included, but I want the T to be less silent.

Mark my words. I predict the progress curve for trans acceptance and rights will be even sharper than the LGB curve, which has been pretty sharp. I've been stunned at how far we've gotten by this stage of my life. As a young person, I NEVER expected to see acceptance of gay marriages by governments in my own lifetime. I think there are clear parallels and that people are primed now to receive education about trans issues. Like aleon515 said, the taboo stems from a similar place about fitting into strict gender expectations.

I intend to keep working on those LGBs who act like we're all done now and we can rest. Until we're all free, none of us are free.

BTW, the reason I've gotten to where I am today and am as motivated as I am to keep learning about trans issues is because I discovered there were gay FTMs. I was reticent at first. I had typical discomfort about the whole thing, but as I got to know about real people and they shared their stories, I began to be able to relate. It was only a matter of time before I realized these guys are so much like me when I was their age. I thought "these are my people", you know? Because they were G and also T, they could function as a sort of ambassador. I learned a lot from them and they inspired me to want to learn more. And that's just one ally's story. There have to be a lot more.

I said yes because when trans people face discrimination it's in a way similar to LGB people, and the same can be said of LGB people to trans people. As an example: in an area where you have non-discrimination for LGB people, but not trans people a person who presents their gender in a way that doesn't fit completely can be fired. So a feminine man, or a masculine woman can be fired in a way that's similar to a trans person.

Also, the split between LGB and the T didn't happen until the 70s. Trans people were the heart and soul of the LGBT civil rights movement at the start.

I think we can benefit from being put in the LGB. Also I know several people who first thought they were lesbian or gay and then realised they were transgender often because of the information they received in their LGBT group so I think it helps some people figure themselves out.

As a woman who transitioned I feel more comfortable being represented by women than by lesbians, gays and bisexuals.  I feel very good about inclusion with other women.  Women tend to understand my needs whether they realize it or not whereas inclusion in the GLB tends to be done for no other reason than, "We need representation so we gotta take whatever we can get."  Also by including myself in with other women for support I don't minoritize myself and people are better able to relate to me and understand me for who I am.

Also the phrase, "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."  Comes to mind.  Even back when I was first transitioning and couldn't pass as female to save my life it was a whole lot easier to just go into a women's clothing store and try on clothes than it was to ask if it was okay for me to try on clothes because I was trans.  I used women's bathrooms before I ever dreamed of being able to pass as female and no one ever said a single word to me but if I had told everyone I was trans and if I had asked someone if it was okay for me to use the women's bathrooms you can bet that someone would have told me no.  Oh and I did make the mistake of asking once if it was okay for me to try on clothes, they had to wait until there was an empty booth on either side of me, it was the only time I was ever discriminated against in that way and it was my fault because by asking permission I discriminated against myself.

As long as we discriminate against ourselves and minoritize ourselves others will follow our example (in my humble opinion).

i hate it . especially when i tell someone im seeing someone and they ask if he is gay..

I always wanted to be a gay man. Turns out, I'm trans so that I get to be a gay man. Since I'm gay, why shouldn't I be included in the community?

Tbh I don't get the feeling the "LGBT" community give a damn about us. How many times have we heard something to do with homosexual couples is a "great victory for LGBT rights". Is it?! Pretty much all the so called "LGBT" gains rarely affect us.

Quote from: Dreams2014 on September 11, 2013, 02:37:56 PM
Tbh I don't get the feeling the "LGBT" community give a damn about us. How many times have we heard something to do with homosexual couples is a "great victory for LGBT rights". Is it?! Pretty much all the so called "LGBT" gains rarely affect us.

I disagree, while not all gains affect us, many do or they help further open doors to allow us to make it affect.us. Such as: same-sex marriage, it allows a transguy who hasn't changed his markers to marry his female girlfriend. Then, allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military has begun to open up the discussion to allow trans people to serve--we wouldn't be discussing trans service members if Dont Ask, Don't Tell wasn't repealed.

If people think the LGB community does not involves us enough, that just means trans people have to work harder than we currently are to be heard. If anyone has an issue, start a trans activist group to help change things you have an issue with. It's easy to just wait for others to make changes and then complain when the change doesn't occur.

i don't think it should be included. i have met transphobic gay people and homophobic trans people. being gay isn't a medical condition, and being trans is.

It doesn't matter to me either way really. If I were to choose I'd say I would rather Transgender be stand alone. I think we'd make better strides with Rights and insurance coverage for SRS/HRT if this were solely seen as a medical condition rather than an identity (people see identity as choice) riding on the coattails of GLB people.

My biggest problem is that when people throw around "LGBT" they pretty much 90% of the time mean homosexuals. Why bother saying it if you're only referring to one group of people?! It's irritating.

I said no because, Gender idenity and sexual orientation are two different things, I think if they were seperated I would not be confused with or looked at as a stud lesbian which is the African American version of a butch lesbian, People think its the same because were grouped together, Their are alot of people who don't even know transgenders, If that's the case intersexed conditions should be put in their to, This is why I don't get acceptence I understand the discrimination thing but come on know people with aids or even cancer get discriminated against should they be put in their to, No because neither one of thoes things have anything to do with sexual orientation,  And homosexuals don't even get me honestly more straight people understand me then homosexuals I hav been discrimated against by homosexuals, And why you think they would be more accepting their not their about the same so I have to disagree, We shouldn't be grouped together

This is a multi level question for me, Right now I could not pass as female full time, just starting to have some curves and have always had a fem style or to some degree actions that are not very masculine, I am transitioning my body into the woman that my my mind and soul have always been no mater how long or hard i tried to hide it. By no means gay nor have much desire for sex in my current state of growth. not so sure I will feel that way once I pass full time and get set up for srs. the only support group I have been able to find here in the bellingham area is lgbt at least our minority status gives us something in common. I do not think I would like to called gay any more than they would like to be called out as transitioning and we all know the ones who do not know they have a female side hate to be called homophobic (LOL). I just dont see how I can much care about what others feel about or see in me when how I get grouped depends on thier level of ignorance, My choice is very limited to live half a life or allow myself to grow regardless of what ever group I get asigned to by people who dont know me or give a crap about what I am going through today and for last 50 years.
Sorry not quite on topic but felt like rambling on a bit today, my therapist kind of left me feeling empty yesterday so i am a bit scatter brained today

jerri

Quote from: Crookedjaw on September 11, 2013, 02:52:13 PM
i don't think it should be included. i have met transphobic gay people and homophobic trans people. being gay isn't a medical condition, and being trans is.

That is so true!

Quote from: Brandon on September 11, 2013, 03:08:34 PM

That is so true!

Yeah it does't help when homosexual people treat trans people as the aunt/uncle they don't want to see at Christmas or Thanksgiving, but put up with them because they're family.

Quote from: Dreams2014 on September 11, 2013, 03:12:17 PM
Yeah it does't help when homosexual people treat trans people as the aunt/uncle they don't want to see at Christmas or Thanksgiving, but put up with them because they're family.

Right you really wanna know how many femn lesbians have asked me why I'm trans or want to be a guy, Why can't you dress like a girl, I'm sorry to say it but who you think will be accepting is always the ones who aren't and I'm a living example of that