Quote from: Brandon on September 11, 2013, 03:16:51 PM
Right you really wanna know how many femn lesbians have asked me why I'm trans or want to be a guy, Why can't you dress like a girl, I'm sorry to say it but who you think will be accepting is always the ones who aren't and I'm a living example of that

Yeah it's sad. They're supposed to be our closest allies and more often than not, they aren't. This is why we need to stop dancing around and realize we don't belong under their umbrella.

Brandon, intersex is in there, I think the full thing is: LGBTQI (I think there's actually a few more letters there, but I get lost).

There are common interests between us, but it's more of the medias fault when they just say LGBT without thinking on whether the article actually includes everyone.

I think no matter what, preT trans guy will get confused with butch lesbians, because visually, there's little ways to tell the difference. You have to educate people you meet. Also, there's still some debate on whether being trans is a medical condition. Also, since homosexuals don't choose to be gay, and I've heard that their may be something in the brain that determines sexual orientation, couldn't being gay be a "medical condition" as well?

If people do not know enough about transgender people, it's not the fault of homosexuals. It's up to us to make sure we properly educate the public (including homosexuals). If everyone was bettereducated there'd be less problems.

Quote from: LearnedHand on September 11, 2013, 03:22:06 PM
Brandon, intersex is in there, I think the full thing is: LGBTQI (I think there's actually a few more letters there, but I get lost).

There are common interests between us, but it's more of the medias fault when they just say LGBT without thinking on whether the article actually includes everyone.

I think no matter what, preT trans guy will get confused with butch lesbians, because visually, there's little ways to tell the difference. You have to educate people you meet. Also, there's still some debate on whether being trans is a medical condition. Also, since homosexuals don't choose to be gay, and I've heard that their may be something in the brain that determines sexual orientation, couldn't being gay be a "medical condition" as well?

If people do not know enough about transgender people, it's not the fault of homosexuals. It's up to us to make sure we properly ed
ucate the public (including homosexuals). If everyone was bettereducated there'd be less problems.

No trust me I have tried to educate people even gay people, I wouldn't say that being gay is a medicl condition only because I've numerous gay people say he don't want to be gay anymore, And again how about we put aids and camcer in teir because they face discrimination and have a medical condition, I still disagree

Quote from: Dreams2014 on September 11, 2013, 03:20:49 PM
Yeah it's sad. They're supposed to be our closest allies and more often than not, they aren't. This is why we need to stop dancing around and realize we don't belong under their umbrella.

Exactly, And when I hear about gay rights I don't ever hear anything about transgenders, And transgenders want to be seen as men and women to the straight ones but still want to be under their umbrella were we don't belong

Quote from: LearnedHand on September 11, 2013, 03:22:06 PM
Brandon, intersex is in there, I think the full thing is: LGBTQI (I think there's actually a few more letters there, but I get lost).

There are common interests between us, but it's more of the medias fault when they just say LGBT without thinking on whether the article actually includes everyone.

I think no matter what, preT trans guy will get confused with butch lesbians, because visually, there's little ways to tell the difference. You have to educate people you meet. Also, there's still some debate on whether being trans is a medical condition. Also, since homosexuals don't choose to be gay, and I've heard that their may be something in the brain that determines sexual orientation, couldn't being gay be a "medical condition" as well?

If people do not know enough about transgender people, it's not the fault of homosexuals. It's up to us to make sure we properly educate the public (including homosexuals). If everyone was bettereducated there'd be less problems.

there really shouldn't be any debate. since we get surgery and take medication, it's a medical condition. members of the lgb community don't take medication as a result of being lgb!

I don't think the T should part of LGBT. At the end of the day, when your not the sex you use to be, why would you want people to know that you use to be male or female?

I will class myself as straight. Being part of LGB, means people are trying to say we are not straight. Being LGB has nothing to do with gender.

But I am gay who wants to be a female, that will then make me straight as I will want a boyfriend.

Quote from: Crookedjaw on September 11, 2013, 03:32:08 PM
there really shouldn't be any debate. since we get surgery and take medication, it's a medical condition. members of the lgb community don't take medication as a result of being lgb!

Thank you!

And by you guys wanting to be a part of th lgb your stopping alot straight transguys like me, And alot of straight transgirls from being seen as straight that's one of the few reasons people don't see me as male

Quote from: androidnick on September 11, 2013, 03:59:55 PM
That is a big assumption my friend. One that shouldn't be made. You are blaming one group for another group's ignorance. No one is preventing anyone from your friends or family seeing you as male. Unfortunately as it has been said before if you aren't on T then people will just assume you are a butch lesbian. Especially if you don't explain. And if you do explain and they still refuse to see things then that is on them. Not anyone else

No I pass just fine no one at my school really knows whats between my legs, I'm saying your making it harder for people to take us seriously

I'm guessing everyone here has seen the music video or heard the song "same love"?

They all seem to be hovering around that and going on about equality for all. Well we need equality too. Yet we're still regularly forgotten.

And you want more proof, My sister and a couple of my friends said it's in the same catergory so their is no difference they are the same, That is why people don't get me believe it or not lot of pople think being trans is the same as being gay that's another reason I don't get accepted, And that's real talk, And if we were seperated I also wouldn't get so much ->-bleeped-<- from other Christians

Quote from: androidnick on September 11, 2013, 04:09:51 PM
Dude how am I or anyone else on this forum making it hard? People with common sense realize being trans isn't a choice. The people that are ignorant will bash us regardless if LGB and T weren't together. You are blaming others for your problems and sorry but that just isn't right.

Again dude, If we were seperated more people would take us seriously, Imma be the bigger man I'm not gonna argue with you

Quote from: Brandon on September 11, 2013, 03:41:47 PM
And by you guys wanting to be a part of th lgb your stopping alot straight transguys like me, And alot of straight transgirls from being seen as straight that's one of the few reasons people don't see me as male

I have to disagree with this. Once you medically transition you won't encounter that problem. People are visual, that's just the way it is. As someone else stated, it's almost impossible pre medical transition to not be seen as a butch lesbian. Once you're at the point where you can be stealth (if you so choose) then that won't occur. There are strictly straight girls who will have a relationship with a transman post transition but not pre transition. Then there's the whole "pre bottom surgery" or non op bottom surgery to contend with.

Quote from: Dreams2014 on September 11, 2013, 04:09:42 PM
Well we need equality too. Yet we're still regularly forgotten.

Some of that is our own fault as a community (I'm guilty of this as well) because we go stealth. Being under the radar is what the majority of us want but that's a double edged sword because it decreases visibility for our community. The less visibility the less understanding will take place.

Quote from: Brandon on September 11, 2013, 04:14:47 PM

Imma be the bigger man I'm not gonna argue with you

Before you get started just stop. Nobody is arguing here. Everyone is stating their opinions. Now lets continue this discussion as adults.

Quote from: Si on September 11, 2013, 04:19:30 PM
I have to disagree with this. Once you medically transition you won't encounter that problem. People are visual, that's just the way it is. As someone else stated, it's almost impossible pre medical transition to not be seen as a butch lesbian. Once you're at the point where you can be stealth (if you so choose) then that won't occur. There are strictly straight girls who will have a relationship with a transman post transition but not pre transition. Then there's the whole "pre bottom surgery" or non op bottom surgery to contend with.

Some of that is our own fault as a community (I'm guilty of this as well) because we go stealth. Being under the radar is what the majority of us want but that's a double edged sword because it decreases visibility for our community. The less visibility the less understanding will take place.

Before you get started just stop. Nobody is arguing here. Everyone is stating their opinions. Now lets continue this discussion as adults.

I disagree with that onl because I pass it's not difficult for me atleast, Sometimes when I do explain it to people they get it, Other times again, People have told me theirs no difference because were in the same catergory

Quote from: Crookedjaw on September 11, 2013, 03:32:08 PM
there really shouldn't be any debate. since we get surgery and take medication, it's a medical condition. members of the lgb community don't take medication as a result of being lgb!

It is a medical condition, but not for the reason you are stating. Surgery and medication do not mean a medical condition. If so, plastic surgery would be a medical condition, which is certainly not true. Plastic surgery is a medical procedure, but not a condition. A condition is a problem that needs a medical solution as a necessity for the individual's health, I would say.

Transgender feelings are based in biology. Something is different than it was supposed to be in our brains and bodies. It could be a combination of biological things - like genes and brain structure. There have already been tests done. But it could also be related to our experiences. Or maybe, it is a combination of both of those itself.

Our biology is not congruent with our assigned gender - you could even make an argument this is not a medical condition as well.

If a gay gene or whatever they have been researching is found, then the issues are even more similar.

Not all trans people identify with, or as having a medical condition. Also, not all people are interested in medical transition. Being trans includes people of many different types of gender identities. The more specific divide that I think people ask about is that with transgender vs transsexual. There you have the idea, or hierarchy between a person who medically transitions and somebody who does not. For some people, medical transition isn't possible (and thus it's accepted that they will never be X). There's also people who choose to partially medically transition because of the way they feel about their gender which might not be binary. It's all kind of difficult to explain and go through, but we're all kinda mushed together. Sometimes it's good for all of us, sometimes it's bad for all of us, sometimes it's only some of us that are affected.

I personally think being lumped in with LG and B is better than nothing. On it's own, I don't think trans would get the recognition it does. Yes, it is often an afterthought and quite often LGBT is used when the situation only applies to LGB, but an afterthought is better than no thought at all. Without the progress in LGB rights, I very much doubt the T would have as big a standing as it does now. Being associated with LG and B does mean people often think it's to do with sexuality and I find that extremely irritating, but I also know that if being trans was viewed as nothing to do with LG and B, it would be much more of a struggle for acceptance and basic rights.

Quote from: androidnick on September 11, 2013, 04:23:54 PM
I'm getting really sick and tired of good topics being locked because of certain things. Seriously some people need to grow up on this site. I started this thread to get mature opinions and have a civil conversation. But I also think it is very unfair to then blame the gay community for others not being educated.

You misread what I said again no one is blamming homosexuals, Whoever put us in the same catergory in the first place, What I'm saying is when I go out in public no one sees me as butch at all, They always say sir and gentlemen or young man, And my voice isn't that high, But my family knows and because were in the same catergory some of my friends and family believe its the same thing, Its not because I don't pass its bcause they think being gay and trans is the same think and they have even told me, I can have a mature covo,  But to be honst Ive been feeling like Ive been getting double teamed and triple teamed by everyone here

Quote from: Brandon on September 11, 2013, 04:32:07 PM
But to be honst Ive been feeling like Ive been getting double teamed and triple teamed by everyone here

The people that respond to you are just disagreeing with you. It is not personal.

Quote from: MaximmusFlavius on September 11, 2013, 04:31:55 PM
I personally think being lumped in with LG and B is better than nothing. On it's own, I don't think trans would get the recognition it does. Yes, it is often an afterthought and quite often LGBT is used when the situation only applies to LGB, but an afterthought is better than no thought at all. Without the progress in LGB rights, I very much doubt the T would have as big a standing as it does now. Being associated with LG and B does mean people often think it's to do with sexuality and I find that extremely irritating, but I also know that if being trans was viewed as nothing to do with LG and B, it would be much more of a struggle for acceptance and basic rights.

Then how do you explain intersex people? Were more like hem but everyone knows they exist