"Either detransitioning or staying trans both leave me feeling incomplete and honestly sometimes I think that the only reason being trans wins out is because I do have my boyfriend and I feel that support.. "

Having support is important.  Having someone who loves and understands you is a godsend.

But this is really about what makes you most comfortable.  I have no doubt you are a transgendered person .  And not all transgendered persons can, or want to, fully transition.  It is about finding that balance that minimizes the dyphoria.

There are ways to surgically change you body, but short of that, how are you the most comfortable?  I recall that, a couple of years ago, under your old, now-deleted account, you posted a smiling picture of yourself in bed.  I thought to myself, this is someone who is happy with themselves.  So many of us post images that look sad or angry - your's struck be as the opposite.

What my wish for you is, to regain that happiness.  Part of that is figuring out who you really are - the sooner the better.  I don't want you to end up like me.

Take to heart the kind replies here. <3

Quote from: Jen on September 13, 2013, 10:49:29 AM
It sounds like something came along that drove you inside your own head.  Questioning your gender/sex can definitiely do that.

Speaking for myself only, there is no passion for transition, just a deep feeling of peace with myself that replaced unbearable angst.  That liberation was such a relief in the early stages that it really was a gooood feeling., that's probably what you mean?  Over time, though, that has gone away and things just feel pretty... whatever, like there is no emotion that goes with it.  I'm just much happier now, that's about it—things just feel right.

Yeah I think I had the opposite, I used to not think about my gender much or feel like I needed to be anything gender-wise, aside from being a very private person before because I was so afraid of people judging me. I didn't really feel bad being seen as a boy and having my own little style of being a boy, I just wanted to be able to be as femme as I am. But now I have this constant angst instead and I can't find any easy way to be a girl because the angst is coming from within and not anything that anyone else did or said. I used to be able to stand up for myself and who I was, at the very least to myself, but how I viewed myself changed a lot with transition and that really saddens me. 

Quote from: Jamie D on September 13, 2013, 03:27:51 PM
"Either detransitioning or staying trans both leave me feeling incomplete and honestly sometimes I think that the only reason being trans wins out is because I do have my boyfriend and I feel that support.. "

Having support is important.  Having someone who loves and understands you is a godsend.

But this is really about what makes you most comfortable.  I have no doubt you are a transgendered person .  And not all transgendered persons can, or want to, fully transition.  It is about finding that balance that minimizes the dyphoria.

There are ways to surgically change you body, but short of that, how are you the most comfortable?  I recall that, a couple of years ago, under your old, now-deleted account, you posted a smiling picture of yourself in bed.  I thought to myself, this is someone who is happy with themselves.  So many of us post images that look sad or angry - your's struck be as the opposite.

What my wish for you is, to regain that happiness.  Part of that is figuring out who you really are - the sooner the better.  I don't want you to end up like me.

Take to heart the kind replies here. <3

Yeah I remember posting old pics... I still wish I had a pic I posted when I finally got a hold of some makeup and tried to get the picture to look like how I looked in real life... and a certain disco shark just replied WOW!!!!!!! in huge bold letters and everyone else echoed that thought.

That made me feel so good but I know that it wasn't even having the validity of looking femme that I felt good about... I felt good about someone actually thinking I looked amazing at all, because I was starved for attention and approval and praise...

I like being beautiful and beautifying myself, I always want to look beautiful but I think the only reason I feel good about looking like a girl now is because I'm so insecure about my transition that I need people to value it in place of me. I want to look beautiful, I don't know if that is synonymous with looking female for me or if it necessarily ever was, I just felt not as beautiful as a boy because I was so cut off from the ability to beautify myself.

Now when people tell me I look so femme or so natural or something it doesn't even make me feel good. I would rather they tell me they love my fashion sense or something. I don't have an internal need to look femme, just to look beautiful.

I don't know how I'm most comfortable... I've evolved so much since transition & got out of a very unpleasant living environment so I became a lot more comfortable in some ways and a lot less in others.  I feel like the complete ideal is to take all the exploration and self-discovery that I've been able to do and detransition (or at lesat experiment) and just live as kind of agender presenting as a femme boy, continuing to be myself unapologetically and get better and better at dealing with a lot of society's fear of male femininity, surround myself with supportive people and make more gay friends and stuff.

But yeah it kinda struck me that I don't even know where I would start presenting as a boy, I could wear boy's clothes but the kind of boy's clothes I would want to wear wouldn't look like boy's clothes on my figure, any hairstyles would like girly with my hair and appearance, the only reason my presentation was at all boyish before was because again, I couldn't beautify myself as much so I felt slobbish but then that made me look more guyish because guys generally don't beautify themselves. I wouldn't want that slobbish presentation ever for any reason though so... really all I can imagine is continuing to present as I do now, just not telling people that I'm a girl or judging my appearance as a girl.

I just don't really know where I even could take any of this... it feels like such fantasizing because in the real world none of this would matter and people would just be like umm, are you sure you're a guy? But maybe at least I would stop feeling like I have to be a fake cis girl or lie about my past or my body to help that... though OTOH, honestly, male spaces just terrify me like seriously... I always felt weird in male bathrooms and stuff but presenting as femme and as myself it would be 1000x scarier, men in general really scare me unless they are femme men and I don't know how many of them would be willing to treat me as the hyperfemme boy I want to be without getting really weird about it.

Cray, you have been given a week with your second account. Site policy only allows one account per member.  You may make a final post in this thread,  then the account will be deleted. The thread will remain open for answers. For those who would like an explanation, the Cray account was used to post in another, unrelated thread. Accidental or not, this indicated that the urgency for answers had probably passed. Hugs, Devlyn

Cray, I'd value you no matter how you looked.  Your beauty, to me, radiates from within.

Feminine beauty is largely a social construct.  We are constantly fed images of what a female in our society is "supposed" to look like.  In my opinion, some of the most attractive women I ever met, were not exceptionally beautiful.  But they had an inner beauty and charm that shone through.  Just like you.  And you know what - that applies to guys too.  Attractive men are confident in themselves.

And clothes really shouldn't make a difference.  Dress in boy clothes if it makes you comfortable.  A lot of women do anyway - it's easier!  No one should judge you for having doubts about where you are, or where you are going, in any transition.

There is no reason you should feel you have to fake anything.  I accept you for who you are.  I am pretty sure your boyfriend does too.  Be your authentic self - I think that is what we all need to do.

Quote from: cray on September 12, 2013, 03:48:39 AM
I don't represent trans people, I don't feel represented by trans people, I don't feel that I have anything in common with the trans narrative at all and I wish there were people that had my thing so somebody could tell me I'm not crazy and I could believe that they actually understand what I'm feeling.

You aren't crazy, sweetheart. I've never felt like I have all that much in common with other trans people, and it was something I struggled with a lot early on in my transition. It's also part of why it took me a long, long time to even decide to go through with transitioning. I'm just nothing much like the Trans Narrative(tm), and it can be kind of scary being out on your own like that.

I am essentially agender. I don't have that voice inside my head telling me what I am. I don't really like gender very much at all. I wish I could just be myself without needing to be catagorized like that all the time. In the end I transitioned because I feel physically more comfortable with a more female-ish body. But I'm really not much of a girl, beyond living my life in that social category.

And I love femme boy clothes! That's what I wear all the time, basically. There is something about that kind of stylish boy look--a slim-fit button-up, fancy ass-hugging jeans, some nice androgynous jewelery, black boots, and a bit of makeup that just suits me. Heh, I actually got scouted by a model agent who thought I was a really pretty 16-year-old boy! That was a fun experience, though in the end I decided not to do it--I'm too old to mess around with that stuff really.

So why don't you do it? Wear the stuff you like, present the way you like, and just... let people see you how they are going to see you? I mean, pretty much everyone assumes I'm a girl. Occasionally I get seen as a teenaged boy, and occasionally people aren't really sure. And if I give them my name they automatically just correct themselves to seeing me as a girl. But I'm never ever seen as trans because I just totally don't fit the image people have of trans women. I prefer it like that. People knowing I'm trans makes me super uncomfortable. I mean that's my private business, right? I only let people I really trust know that stuff.

Anyway, I guess I'm just saying this because I don't think you should feel so weird. Or, you know what, we can be weird together!

I hope you can try to find ways of just... feeling more comfortable in your life. Just doing what feels good, what feels right, and not worrying so much about the answers. Like really, ->-bleeped-<- knows what I am in terms of gender. But I don't let it bother me anymore. I just try to be okay.

I think part of what's driving you up the wall is just... how are you filling your time, love? I get the sense that you are, well, bored. Can you try to find a job or do some volunteering or... anything really that will get you out of your head a bit, and give you a bit more confidence in yourself.

Anyway, you are always free to send me a message or whatever if you want someone to vent to. I'm not really into judging or preaching or anything (aside from trying to convince you to be nicer to yourself), and I'm happy to listen. Us weirdlings need to look out for each other, nah?

The world needs more weirdlings .

Anyway, yeah, be authentically you.  That's the only thing that actually matters.  Also, you should never feel like anything you do is a step backward (whether transition, detransition, retransition, whatever, whatever) because every step you take brings you closer to figuring yourself out.  I actually think you learn more from wrong turns than being on the right course all the time.  It's your journey and there should be no judgement from anybody about where you have taken or will take it, ever, not even from yourself.

^^^

Listen to Jen! She's a genius.

Thanks everyone... guess this is my last post on this account.

Sarah glad to hear your perspective. For some reason I never really thought we would relate that well but you kinda made me feel different about that. Though it's probably just that living life has forced me to come around on a lot of things and shed a lot of dumb insecurities... and you've been in this for a long time right? So....

In a lot of ways I know how immature I can be/am and I am grateful to everyone who puts up with me...

Mostly what I'm taking away from (or trying to take away from) this thread is that everything can go back to normal and there can be life after these doubts. I think. A part of me wants to keep arguing when everyone says it will be OK or that I'm really actually definitely trans, and it feels like it's to enough of an extent that maybe I'm just afraid of everything being OK while these loose ends are just hanging out forever. I don't know if I want it to be ok. Earlier tonight I had a major BDD flare up and all I could see in the mirror was a man, even a masculine looking one. Then I cried for a looong time, not because I looked like a man but because I had to live as a girl while I looked like a man, whether or not I looked like a man (I still have no way to know).

Living with transition is probably 2nd in difficulty to living with mental illness... I hear cis girls struggling deeply with the same things as me all the time. These experiences can happen to cis people even if brought on by different things.

I think I could cope with everything though if there were just a way to really feel authentic and effortlessly myself. What I always get stuck on is that even if I decide to live as me and not care what anyone thinks, I still have to keep doing all the transition things. I still have to keep misrepresenting myself a little to people just to get by, and it seems like being cis is right there over a little fence, and it's such an inviting idea to climb over it and go back so I don't feel beyond myself anymore. Unfortunately I don't know if I can ever feel like I'm just being myself while I'm on this side of the fence, because if I were ready to let go and just be me I would already be hopping back over it.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop dwelling on it once again... I'm going to get busy with life stuff where I can manage to for now. everyone gave great advice and after it digests I will definitely refer back to this thread if I end up in another struggle with myself. I'm sorry if I didn't get to reply to everything I'm just falling asleep at the keyboard here and wanted to get the reply out before this account is deleted...  I just wanted to reiterate though, thank you everyone for your support, you are all awesome and it really helps to have another person's perspectives even if they can never totally cross over with your own.

Quote from: cray on September 14, 2013, 07:36:25 AM
Sarah glad to hear your perspective. For some reason I never really thought we would relate that well but you kinda made me feel different about that. Though it's probably just that living life has forced me to come around on a lot of things and shed a lot of dumb insecurities...

Wasn't just you. I used to be so angry and defensive and it's taken a long time for me to calm down and relax and not overreact to people. And, ya, it's nice to find we have a bit in common. Always feels a bit less lonely when you can share a thing or two.

Look after yourself. And don't be afraid to reach out if you find you need support. That's what this site is for after all. Working as intended! Much love,

Sarah

As someone with more baggage than United Airlines I found new hobbies and friends that helped distract me from constantly questioning myself. When I start asking myself why I should follow this insane quest to transition I put that energy into something else. I am 47 and I have learned that I will never be an 18 year old female, ever. So I don't try. I dress as a typical 47 year old female and don't compare myself to others because I am not them and they are not me. I suppose age and experience have matured me well enough to deal with all of this. Do I have bad days, of course I do, we all do, but you can deal with it healthy or destructive. As for being a nurse, I was a paramedic and trust me patients are not worried about you or who you are. They are busy with the disease or trauma in their own lives and other health care providers are more concerned with proper patient treatment that as long as you perform to the standard of care they don't care either. Public perception of myself was the hardest thing for me to overcome, but it can be done. You feel under a microscope 27/7 and panic when people give you a second glance. What helped me overcome is the fact most people are too tied up in their own life and problems that the second glance you think you are getting is simply them looking for a ketchup bottle. Not trying to make light on this issue, but just take a deep slow breathe and relax. The people you THINK are judging you most likely aren't. Feel fortunate you are growing up today when we are starting to be accepted. In my generation, people like me were quickly found out and dealt with severely. Landlord's would not rent, banks would not give loans and employers would not hire. You are in an age of some protection and anti-discrimination laws and it may not seem it sometimes, but people are starting to come around. Slowly I know, but it is happening. When it gets bad just take a deep breathe and talk to the girls here, they are a fantastic resource and they are willing to help and give advice based not on text books, but real life experiences. That's how you know they really care about you and where you are going, They have been there. PM if you need to and know I for one am here for you. Transgender life is a hard test, use this forum as Cliff's notes and pass the test!