I haven't been here in awhile, frankly because I just got tired of seeing the same old "T" topics proliferating this board.

I recently saw a comment on a thread in the non-op board that made me consider something I'd only skirted around the edges of before – Excessive talk of trans treatment (namely HRT or surgeries) doesn't always lift up other trans people, but actually drags them down further. For instance, there are people here from all over the world. Some countries don't have as many treatment options as others (and some have none at all). There are people here experiencing a wide range of financial issues who may not even be able to start any form of treatment. There are people here who would only like certain treatments. There are people here who don't want any treatments. And most of all, everyone here has varying degrees of dysphoria (which imo dysphoria and how society views a person are two of the main reasons to want treatment in the first place).

I'm now just questioning whether a message board being a magnet for talk of HRT therapy in particular does as much good as people think it does? It's driven me away more than once and I know of a few others who have had the same reaction. After reading the comment in the other thread, I feel like there may be even more people who do not get any benefit from all the threads related to HRT.

I find that a lot of the threads are "advice" type threads as well. And it does seem that most people here are smart enough to throw out the, "you should be asking your doctor that" type of advice, but just because someone's on HRT treatment, doesn't mean that their experience with it will be the same as whoever is asking about it. There's some broad generalizations (like yes, T will eventually give you hair where you didn't have hair before) but this isn't a medical advice board either.

There's so much more involved with being trans and with living as trans. It's only in recent history that treatments have even been available to trans people, yet trans people have existed throughout history and had to deal with their unique situations.

When everyone doesn't feel the exact same and when everyone doesn't even have the access to the same treatments, I personally feel that widespread talk of them might backfire in a detrimental way. There has to be a happy medium where information can be disseminated to individuals researching/discovering what their options for treatment might be without the treatment itself taking center stage and being the main topic du jour.

While I see what you're saying, I think that if people don't want to read about HRT, then they shouldn't.  Just scroll past it.  It's a support group at the end of the day - and if people can't ask for advice on issues related to medical treatment, then what's the point?  There are so many Facebook groups that are nothing but chit-chat between trans* folk - I remember how I felt when I didn't know where to start - and sometimes having a group of people to help guide you or offer advice because they've "been there" is exactly what you need.

I suppose the only thing that could be different about the FTM section of Susan's is that there should be a better system in regards to child boards.  Yes, you're right in the fact that some days there is nothing here but T threads - or surgery threads, etc.  I think that the generic "HRT" board seems to be primarily dominated by MTF talk - so all of the T threads come here.  No one scrolls all the way down to the bottom of the forum to see that there are boards specific for FTM top surgery either.  I've noticed that people who post in those boards get ignored because everyone's in the FTM section - in my opinion, the FTM bottom and top surgery threads need to be in THIS board, not down the bottom.

Additionally, I think that some of the issues you're talking about revolve around trans* identity, as well.  Perhaps there needs to be a better system with child boards to cater to those non-binary-identifying people, as well.  I suppose that there really are already those boards here - but as this board is the "FTM Transsexual Talk" board, it seems rather obvious to me that it is a board for what was formerly known as "transsexuals" - those seeking medical intervention to transition to their innate gender.

There ARE already boards for non-transitioning folk - so I don't really understand why you would want to curb the talk in THIS board about medical transition?  Susan's seems to have a place for everyone - and I don't know why the people who are seeking medical treatment should have to watch what they say because it bores or upsets the non-transitioning folk (who have their own board) or the non-binary folk.

As for those who WANT medical treatment, but can't access it - well, I understand where seeing talk of T would upset them and they could benefit from a board that is more specifically geared towards mental well-being or even natural transitioning, but I don't think that it's fair to stop the medical transition talk just because it may put off some.  No one is forcing anyone to read the threads or even come to this site - but I do agree that a board that is NOT about medical transition and is rather about just helpful tips and advice would be beneficial.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on October 12, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
While I see what you're saying, I think that if people don't want to read about HRT, then they shouldn't.  Just scroll past it.  It's a support group at the end of the day - and if people can't ask for advice on issues related to medical treatment, then what's the point?  There are so many Facebook groups that are nothing but chit-chat between trans* folk - I remember how I felt when I didn't know where to start - and sometimes having a group of people to help guide you or offer advice because they've "been there" is exactly what you need.

I suppose the only thing that could be different about the FTM section of Susan's is that there should be a better system in regards to child boards.  Yes, you're right in the fact that some days there is nothing here but T threads - or surgery threads, etc.  I think that the generic "HRT" board seems to be primarily dominated by MTF talk - so all of the T threads come here.  No one scrolls all the way down to the bottom of the forum to see that there are boards specific for FTM top surgery either.  I've noticed that people who post in those boards get ignored because everyone's in the FTM section - in my opinion, the FTM bottom and top surgery threads need to be in THIS board, not down the bottom.

Additionally, I think that some of the issues you're talking about revolve around trans* identity, as well.  Perhaps there needs to be a better system with child boards to cater to those non-binary-identifying people, as well.  I suppose that there really are already those boards here - but as this board is the "FTM Transsexual Talk" board, it seems rather obvious to me that it is a board for what was formerly known as "transsexuals" - those seeking medical intervention to transition to their innate gender.

There ARE already boards for non-transitioning folk - so I don't really understand why you would want to curb the talk in THIS board about medical transition?  Susan's seems to have a place for everyone - and I don't know why the people who are seeking medical treatment should have to watch what they say because it bores or upsets the non-transitioning folk (who have their own board) or the non-binary folk.

As for those who WANT medical treatment, but can't access it - well, I understand where seeing talk of T would upset them and they could benefit from a board that is more specifically geared towards mental well-being or even natural transitioning, but I don't think that it's fair to stop the medical transition talk just because it may put off some.  No one is forcing anyone to read the threads or even come to this site - but I do agree that a board that is NOT about medical transition and is rather about just helpful tips and advice would be beneficial.

This.


It is sad that people can't start T or have surgery right now and may want it. However, at the end of the day, Susan's isn't made up completely of these people. I myself am 19 months on T and almost 4 months to go before surgery and I want to talk about it because it's a real part of my life. Just like those who can't or won't start HRT or get surgery, it's real to them and they need to talk about it too. I don't want to be silenced because and not get the support I need because people aren't on T. We ALL need support here. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I need support and advice too.

I find that topics like that are helpful to me for knowing what is possible, and what will be available for me in the future, however I recognise what you're saying about people in places where they can't access trans healthcare.  I started coming on this site about three years ago, and it's going to be tomorrow (hopefully) that I book my first appointment to talk to my GP about getting a referral, and I always knew it would be this long, but knowing that this stuff is out there has kept me going.  I know that things can be fixed in the end.

This place is a wealth of knowledge for medical options, of course only when you exercise common sense that it's different from everyone, and we're not medical practitioners on here, and I'm grateful that we do talk about them here, but it was good to see topics on other issues.  The last time someone -- it might have been you actually -- brought up a point like this a few more general topics popped up, and that was good to see.  I'm hopeless at starting threads so I'll skip coming up with any myself though.

At the end of the day, people are going to ask the questions that they want the answers for, and those same questions about T and surgery keep coming around time and time again, and they always will unless the search function gets better (which it probably won't).  And to be honest, why shouldn't they?  We're about giving support to people, and helping them out.  If people don't want to see those topics then they have every right to ignore them, or take a break from the site as you have done, just like I ignore those threads with pictures in because the internet here won't allow me to view them, or if they're on a subject that doesn't pique my interest.

Kreuzfidel does have a good point about child boards though, and that's one that has been raised before here, but I think the only difference was possibly a child board in another part of the site.  They just don't get visited enough though, which I think might be why a handful of those who aren't what might be technically medically classed as "transsexual" end up over here simply because we've got the traffic and their questions will get a response.  I don't mind it, and it helps add perspective, just like I have absolutely no problem with women coming in here.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on October 12, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
I suppose the only thing that could be different about the FTM section of Susan's is that there should be a better system in regards to child boards.

There ARE already boards for non-transitioning folk - so I don't really understand why you would want to curb the talk in THIS board about medical transition?

Susan's seems to have a place for everyone - and I don't know why the people who are seeking medical treatment should have to watch what they say because it bores or upsets the non-transitioning folk (who have their own board) or the non-binary folk.

I think you're right, the FTM main section is a bit of a catch all. And I definitely agree that the main HRT board is more MTF discussions. If there was an FTM HRT (or just be blunt about it - FTM Testosterone) child board then the people who want that information can do directly to it. Maybe some people miss child boards all together (like the top surgery one) and that's an additional problem that would have to be addressed.

But there is no "non-transition" thread (unless something has changed in the last month that I haven't discovered yet). There's a non-op thread, which is different (and the people posting there have even said so). And I never said I wanted to curb all the talk about it, just that there was a lot of it and that there could be reasons that it's detrimental. Perhaps a child board would be a good middle ground.

Quote from: Kreuzfidel on October 12, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
...the "FTM Transsexual Talk" board, it seems rather obvious to me that it is a board for what was formerly known as "transsexuals" - those seeking medical intervention to transition to their innate gender.

Honestly, I think that has really grated on me for quite sometime I just haven't been consciously acknowledging it. Every time I bring up a topic like this, people shove me into the "non-binary" (or another) category, simply because I'm not interested in transitioning. I fully realize how much of a minority I am, but it's crappy to be told "you're not one of us either so just don't participate with or comment on what we're doing and maybe you can find what you need somewhere else". Non-binary people don't understand what I go through and I don't really understand their experience either because internally I'm not non-binary, I'm male. I don't feel female some days and male other days. I don't even dress female, or act female. So talking to people who sometimes do (or feel they're neither), makes me feel like an outcast as well. SRS is part of the standards of care, but desire to have it is not part of the requirement to be transsexual. Once you're diagnosed it's an option for treatment (and as far as I can tell, it's now pitched as pretty much the only option).

Quote from: chipper on October 12, 2013, 10:49:14 PM
Just remember: this board is for EVERYONE on the FTM spectrum, regardless of hormone, surgery, or transition status. My advice would be to keep your head up, ignore the posts you don't find applicable and propagate posts that are beneficial to you.

I wish I felt more like it was a "spectrum" and not a hard rule that if you're not transitioning or planning to then you're in the wrong place.

And I do ignore quite a few threads and add my 2 cents where I can.

My thoughts on this as a pre-transition guy (I don't speak for every pre-t or pre-transition guy here.):

I totally understand where you are coming from insideontheoutside and you are exactly right.  We have so many of the same T topics and questions that one could go one Youtube and make a "Stuff Transguys on Susans.org says" parody and I could probably give you the 10 most posted about topics concerning T and surgery here.

Do I think these guys who are finally on T or have questions about T or surgery stop asking questions or be silent?  Well my answer to that is "no" in the general sense.  However, to write off so many T and surgery topics as "well if you don't like it, don't read it" I find to be a little bit insensitive, even if it wasn't intentional.  Sure we can "ignore" the topics so they don't come up in our feed but when we go to that board, they are still there in our face.  Even better, we can just try not to pay any attention to them, but it's hard to do that when those topics are constantly at the front page.  We must remember that not everyone here has the emotional strength of a horse.  Some people here and some lurkers who view these topics might have such a strong morale.  Heck I've been here for two years and even to this day sometimes I get so depressed at all of the T and surgery topics (that I do try to actively ignore usually) that I just think I will never be able to reach that go and it would just be cheaper to (TRIGGER WARNING) buy a gun and a bullet put the gun in my mouth to end it there.  If I'm feeling that (especially considering I DO have a top surgery fund and a plan....somewhat) then I'm sure it's very possible that there might be some others (that's in a lesser position to transition than I am) are probably feeling the same way.  The only difference is I have no plans to act out on these thoughts (not anytime soon anyway) while others may not be as strong and may give in and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's has already happened before.


Yes the goal here is to fellowship with others who are in similar situations, but that goal could oftentimes feel unobtainable by those who cannot transition or cannot get T or surgery for a while whatever reason.  I know that most guys here are willing to help those guys or talk with them about their issues of lack of transitioning of whatever and while some of those guys are eager to learn more and seek the help of those that are in transition, let's face it.  There are probably a few guys non-transition guys that sees an invisible "T-Club" barrier in the FtM board, meaning that you may still feel isolated from the "support" group, even though it's for "everyone".  There may be guys/ here that may not feel they are able to relate to anyone because of that because "once you cross the T-line, that's all she wrote".  Any experience that the transitioned guy had while he was "Pre-T" doesn't even register in the mind because they simply aren't pre-t anymore and with all of the T topics, now the only options are to find another board to talk in or find another site.  I think many people would agree that this is absolutely the best trans site to go come to for fellowship....but when the best site makes you feel isolated still....it can be very frustrating.

I know some people are probably thinking "Malachite, you're a lunatic and you're just over exaggerating. " Well, yes I will admit that I AM a lunatic and that I AM over exaggerating.  However,  nothing I've said isn't out of the realm of possibility.  Why?  Because these have been/are my thoughts that I think.  Of course not everyone is going to be like me, but I would bet that there are some here,be it lurkers or members, have similar thoughts as mine and just don't want to admit it.  There may be less than 10, but I'm convinced there are some.

I do agree that the HRT boards are more MtF dominated and attract less people and I think that sucks.  I do believe we should have T subforum right in the FtM forum like the FtM gear has.  That would be the BEST solution as it the guys could talk about T there all day long without it cluttering up the main FtM forum and those guys including myself, that can't get access to T for whatever reason, don't have to constantly see it in the main boards.  This would REALLY be the time to say "well if you don't like it don't read it" because that "invisible barrier" would not be invisible anymore.  Then, you could simply not just go into that sub forum.

What I'm getting at with this is that yeah, there's going to be T topics and transition problems and it's a forum so I expect that, but I do think we should still be a little bit considerate to those who don't have the privilege to be where you are: those guys that don't have the blessing to freak out on whether you did your injection wrong and now your thigh is turning different colors:  those guys who don't have the blessing to make a thread screaming that they got their first T shot and how their partner was there to witness it: those guys who would beg for a chance to be able to make a voice comparison and then let everyone on the board hear them: those guys who would wish that they are having couple's problems because their partner isn't taking too kindly to the effects of T that's happening to them: those guys who dream of posting their T changes every week.  This isn't an insult to anyone who have made those types of threads, but these guys DO exist and I would hate for one to decide not to live anymore because of these constant reminders of how they can't have those privileges.

Just food for thought

I get what you and Malachite are saying. But a lot of us that are on T aren't part of an "exclusive" club that was super easy to get into. Those of us on T had to fight so hard to be where we are. I know it was over a 2 year process for me and a lot of disappointments. So I understand where you guys are coming from. And those on T aren't at all waving it in anyone's face that they are on T. I think sometimes you just have to accept your reality and fight in other ways that you can. I get that it sucks seeing others talking about things you can't have but that's just always going to be something you'll deal with in life. I hope you know I mean that in the nicest way possible. And I don't think anyone would think of you as not being part of the FTM world! Not everything is black and white. There's always grey. I do know that it must be harder being someone who isn't transitioning medically though.

I apologise if I came across as insensitive or trying to push a stereotype on anyone - it was not my intention.

At the end of the day, there needs to be a different system of child boards here.  That's really the only solution and a way to establish that "happy medium" for everyone. 

I don't really see how different child boards would help - the topics here presumably reflect the concerns of the people who post here. So there'd still be tons of posts about HRT in the HRT section and very few posts in the non-transitioning section. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Personally, I'm mainly interested in the practical issues. I'm not really sure how to talk about being trans outside of transitioning because transition is what being trans is for me. It's the logistics of HRT and surgeries and changing your sex on documents and hearing everyone's reviews of various prosthetics...that's mainly what I come on here for. I'm curious, what kind of topics do you want to see more of? Why not just start them and see who joins in? I don't think there are really enough topics overall to warrant another section...IMO there are too many sections on here as it is.

I have not once went to the list of boards or child boards to decide what to read. I never saw why anyone would. I just read anything and have to look to  see what area or sub area I'm in. I think many just use the topics I haven't read or topics I have replied to at the top. I get down when I see people who are getting top surgery, especially the ones who started T after I did. that doesn't mean I wish ill for them just that I need to do the same and can't. I would never not want to read of their success nor want them to feel they can't share that joyful moment.

To this I say live and let live. Read what you choose and bypass the ones you don't. The subject line is all you need for that. Share what you need or want and don't deny others the same.

Quote from: Malachite on October 12, 2013, 11:10:06 PM
My thoughts on this as a pre-transition guy (I don't speak for every pre-t or pre-transition guy here.):

I totally understand where you are coming from insideontheoutside and you are exactly right.  We have so many of the same T topics and questions that one could go one Youtube and make a "Stuff Transguys on Susans.org says" parody and I could probably give you the 10 most posted about topics concerning T and surgery here.

Do I think these guys who are finally on T or have questions about T or surgery stop asking questions or be silent?  Well my answer to that is "no" in the general sense.  However, to write off so many T and surgery topics as "well if you don't like it, don't read it" I find to be a little bit insensitive, even if it wasn't intentional.  Sure we can "ignore" the topics so they don't come up in our feed but when we go to that board, they are still there in our face.  Even better, we can just try not to pay any attention to them, but it's hard to do that when those topics are constantly at the front page.  We must remember that not everyone here has the emotional strength of a horse.  Some people here and some lurkers who view these topics might have such a strong morale.  Heck I've been here for two years and even to this day sometimes I get so depressed at all of the T and surgery topics (that I do try to actively ignore usually) that I just think I will never be able to reach that go and it would just be cheaper to (TRIGGER WARNING) buy a gun and a bullet put the gun in my mouth to end it there.  If I'm feeling that (especially considering I DO have a top surgery fund and a plan....somewhat) then I'm sure it's very possible that there might be some others (that's in a lesser position to transition than I am) are probably feeling the same way.  The only difference is I have no plans to act out on these thoughts (not anytime soon anyway) while others may not be as strong and may give in and honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's has already happened before.


Yes the goal here is to fellowship with others who are in similar situations, but that goal could oftentimes feel unobtainable by those who cannot transition or cannot get T or surgery for a while whatever reason.  I know that most guys here are willing to help those guys or talk with them about their issues of lack of transitioning of whatever and while some of those guys are eager to learn more and seek the help of those that are in transition, let's face it.  There are probably a few guys non-transition guys that sees an invisible "T-Club" barrier in the FtM board, meaning that you may still feel isolated from the "support" group, even though it's for "everyone".  There may be guys/ here that may not feel they are able to relate to anyone because of that because "once you cross the T-line, that's all she wrote".  Any experience that the transitioned guy had while he was "Pre-T" doesn't even register in the mind because they simply aren't pre-t anymore and with all of the T topics, now the only options are to find another board to talk in or find another site.  I think many people would agree that this is absolutely the best trans site to go come to for fellowship....but when the best site makes you feel isolated still....it can be very frustrating.

I know some people are probably thinking "Malachite, you're a lunatic and you're just over exaggerating. " Well, yes I will admit that I AM a lunatic and that I AM over exaggerating.  However,  nothing I've said isn't out of the realm of possibility.  Why?  Because these have been/are my thoughts that I think.  Of course not everyone is going to be like me, but I would bet that there are some here,be it lurkers or members, have similar thoughts as mine and just don't want to admit it.  There may be less than 10, but I'm convinced there are some.

I do agree that the HRT boards are more MtF dominated and attract less people and I think that sucks.  I do believe we should have T subforum right in the FtM forum like the FtM gear has.  That would be the BEST solution as it the guys could talk about T there all day long without it cluttering up the main FtM forum and those guys including myself, that can't get access to T for whatever reason, don't have to constantly see it in the main boards.  This would REALLY be the time to say "well if you don't like it don't read it" because that "invisible barrier" would not be invisible anymore.  Then, you could simply not just go into that sub forum.

What I'm getting at with this is that yeah, there's going to be T topics and transition problems and it's a forum so I expect that, but I do think we should still be a little bit considerate to those who don't have the privilege to be where you are: those guys that don't have the blessing to freak out on whether you did your injection wrong and now your thigh is turning different colors:  those guys who don't have the blessing to make a thread screaming that they got their first T shot and how their partner was there to witness it: those guys who would beg for a chance to be able to make a voice comparison and then let everyone on the board hear them: those guys who would wish that they are having couple's problems because their partner isn't taking too kindly to the effects of T that's happening to them: those guys who dream of posting their T changes every week.  This isn't an insult to anyone who have made those types of threads, but these guys DO exist and I would hate for one to decide not to live anymore because of these constant reminders of how they can't have those privileges.

Just food for thought

I have felt pretty much the same way you have stated.I even got frustrated a few times and came off a prick *not meaning to but it was the tone i suppose* after so long,said people tend to take what they worked so hard for,for granted and even though i understand,as im sure-passing is all that matters,i just had issues with seeing so many-on top of this,not happy even after that fact and even after so many years of being on it.Its true that i feel there is no help here for someone like me and thats not something i can do anything about.I made the choice to avoid that forum all together and rarely post now as is,so i wont be causing any issues for anyone else who feels that things should remain as they are now.Then again,i avoid most forums here even when i do post but its mostly just to encourage someone else or give general information *if i can* I felt i would chime in with my experience and opinion.Either way,i hope it all works out for everyone.

Quote from: insideontheoutside on October 12, 2013, 08:42:54 PMI find that a lot of the threads are "advice" type threads as well. And it does seem that most people here are smart enough to throw out the, "you should be asking your doctor that" type of advice, but just because someone's on HRT treatment, doesn't mean that their experience with it will be the same as whoever is asking about it. There's some broad generalizations (like yes, T will eventually give you hair where you didn't have hair before) but this isn't a medical advice board either.

My doctor is as new to testosterone treatment as I am and, in many ways, is just as clueless (or more since I do research before asking questions). There are many people here who have more advice than my doctor. I don't know about anyone else, but when I ask, I am aware that they are broad generalizations, but I ask because either it may give me a better idea than the info I've been able to find myself or because I want reassurance (I seriously hate my voice). I've tried posting questions about HRT on the HRT board, but got no responses. I have gotten responses here.

To be honest, I'm kind of having trouble not feeling angry right now. I just started T on Wednesday. I'm very excited, very nervous, and I would like support and, what do you know, this is a support forum for trans people where all trans people are supposed to be welcome. I imagine other people starting or thinking about starting T probably feel similar. Are we supposed to stop asking for and receiving support just because it makes you feel uncomfortable? Posting about T does not in any way prevent you from asking for and receiving the support you want/need neither is it in any way offensive. Why are we being held responsible for your emotions? What makes you so superior that your needs/wants trump ours?
Sorry if that comes across as harsh. Maybe I read too much into that and you just want support, in which case, I'm happy to give it (in return for being supported myself).

I am cool with guys talking about T, it doesn't bother me, and I do find it interesting and informative. I might go on T someday. Sometimes I skip reading posts if I just don't feel into it.

However, there's no "non-transition" board as someone here suggested there was, and like others said the "non-op" section is not a non-transitioning board, people there can still be on hormones.

I think sometimes people just don't understand that you don't need to or even desire to be on hormones to be male, like insideontheoutside pointed on in response to the post that basically said go elsewhere on the site. I understand there's a difference between transgender and transsexual, but isn't someone who lives as male without hormones/surgery still a transsexual?

The only thing that somewhat bothers me here on the FTM Transsexual talk section is that whenever someone mentions not taking hormones, or doing something else instead of hormones, it's like. . . war. Sometimes it seems like those who are on T, or plan to go on it soon, get offended if someone mentions how they're cool with transitioning in another way (like I now know that it's trouble on here if I say that I am exercising to achieve a more masculine appearance, because "people get hurt exercising"  ).

I have basically just resigned to the fact that this is a T-only board, and I highly doubt there will ever be a non-medically transitioning board here.

Quote from: Edge on October 13, 2013, 08:20:04 AM
My doctor is as new to testosterone treatment as I am and, in many ways, is just as clueless (or more since I do research before asking questions). There are many people here who have more advice than my doctor. I don't know about anyone else, but when I ask, I am aware that they are broad generalizations, but I ask because either it may give me a better idea than the info I've been able to find myself or because I want reassurance (I seriously hate my voice). I've tried posting questions about HRT on the HRT board, but got no responses. I have gotten responses here.

To be honest, I'm kind of having trouble not feeling angry right now. I just started T on Wednesday. I'm very excited, very nervous, and I would like support and, what do you know, this is a support forum for trans people where all trans people are supposed to be welcome. I imagine other people starting or thinking about starting T probably feel similar. Are we supposed to stop asking for and receiving support just because it makes you feel uncomfortable? Posting about T does not in any way prevent you from asking for and receiving the support you want/need neither is it in any way offensive. Why are we being held responsible for your emotions? What makes you so superior that your needs/wants trump ours?
Sorry if that comes across as harsh. Maybe I read too much into that and you just want support, in which case, I'm happy to give it (in return for being supported myself).

I kind of agree with this. Although not to an extreme degree. It did come off a tad bit harsh. But at the end of the day you kind of have to accept that the norm is gonna be guys on T and guys excited and asking questions about T. If it was in any way meant to be offensive to guys choosing not to be on HRT then I understand why you'd be bothered but you can't expect others to keep quiet about their own sense of joy.

Quote from: Edge on October 13, 2013, 08:20:04 AM
Are we supposed to stop asking for and receiving support just because it makes you feel uncomfortable? Posting about T does not in any way prevent you from asking for and receiving the support you want/need neither is it in any way offensive. Why are we being held responsible for your emotions? What makes you so superior that your needs/wants trump ours?
Sorry if that comes across as harsh. Maybe I read too much into that and you just want support, in which case, I'm happy to give it (in return for being supported myself).

You did read a little too much into it. And it doesn't make me, personally, "feel uncomfortable". Furthermore, I'm basically only speaking for myself and a minority of people and it's my opinion. I'm not advocating everyone stop talking about it. I wager to guess though that there's many lurkers who might feel the board is not as welcoming to people who aren't on T. I've been around for at least a couple years here now and it's mostly the same people talking. There's new people here and there or a lurker who unlurks to make a comment. But from the outside looking in, it appears to be a close-knit group. And everyone is so supportive and welcoming ... as long as you're asking the questions they want to answer or meet the majority goal of transition. Everyone gets a pat on the back and lots of support if they get on T, or rant about not being able to get on T, or get denied T, or have questions about T. But if you don't show an interest in T, it's like even worse than not showing an interest in surgery (...which people seem to be a lot more loose about – you don't want a penis? Oh that's fine, you're still a man. You don't want T? You're a weirdo and can not possibly be trans).

Statistically I think this is one of the most highly traveled trans boards on the internet and tons of people visit but never say anything. So while I can take a guess as to the reasons why, it's an unknown variable. But the board here, as Malachite mentioned is very "clubish" for lack of a better way to put it. It's nobody's fault, but I feel it needed to be pointed out that there's a small amount of people who aren't really helped by it. There really is nothing that can be done about that other than make people aware of it. So to set the record straight, no, you all shouldn't stop talking about it, but it would be nice if anyone who might be on a different path isn't ostracized either. The problem is, when I speak up, I get comments like what Edge posted.

People tend to be highly defensive of T in general. I get that many have fought long and hard to be on it, that it's the number 1 thing that makes you a man in society and able to change genders, but I'm not the "enemy" here. I'm not advocating confiscating all your syringes and telling all the doctors not to treat you.

And I have started threads before on different topics. I'm one of the few people who do, and I continue to do so simply to offer a different perspective and give a voice to however many aren't talking.

It is really sad to me that it's because of "traffic" that a general non-transitioning board doesn't exist on here. To me, if there were only 5 people who posted in there, it would still be worth it so that those 5 people could have a place to post at all (and actually since it would include people who plan to transition but aren't currently, there probably would be more traffic). There's an intersex board on here that's not very highly traveled yet I appreciate that it exists at all and think it's important even if it doesn't have the traffic as some of the other threads.

It's because of "majority rule" that many of us are still persecuted by society in general. Yet even within our midst, there is a majority rule and if that majority even senses a slight bit of challenge they go on the offensive. Think about that.

I read this thread last night and walked away from it feeling bad about making a really gushing post a couple of days ago about how happy I am finally being on T.

Then, I remembered what it was like for the two years I wanted to start T but had to delay it. The threads about T gave me encouragement, and I was happy for anyone that started it and was glad they shared their experiences.

I hope people continue to ask questions and share their details about their journey with all of this from every angle and perspective. No one should feel excluded here.

The androgyne board has a lot of non-hrt related discussion. But you are free to read or not read any thread and start any discussion you want to start. We have several guys in our local support group who do not take T or want surgery. They are supported, but I think there is going to be a lot of T discussion. It's natural and you can't really stop it from occurring or whatever.

There are a lot more discussion areas for MTFs but I think there are actually more of them here by multiples of quite a lot. I participate on the transgender forum, but that can get very sided towards MTF discussion (but there's another place  for discussion too). The gals can be quite supportive though, so posting there is a possibility too.

I don't know what to say about this, as I think some of your feeling might be a kind fo left out feeling that has nothing to do with how people are reacting to you and more on your own response to it. I don't personally care if someone is on T or not.
One can't very well police the conversations and so on so they will be more two sided.

BTW, there's a blog by a friend of mine you might like. He's non-binary but is on T (low dose).
http://neutrois.me/
He also has a FB and discussion.


--Jay

Quote from: spacerace on October 13, 2013, 12:48:41 PM
I read this thread last night and walked away from it feeling bad about making a really gushing post a couple of days ago about how happy I am finally being on T.

Then, I remembered what it was like for the two years I wanted to start T but had to delay it. The threads about T gave me encouragement, and I was happy for anyone that started it and was glad they shared their experiences.

I hope people continue to ask questions and share their details about their journey with all of this from every angle and perspective. No one should feel excluded here.

You shouldn't feel bad about posting anything - no one should and that includes non-transitioning folks, too.

And my choice of words was wrong - there is no "non-transitioning board", but why isn't there?  Maybe this is something that can be done by the board administrators or at least considered.

Hi,

Sorry, I don't always look at the guys boards as closely as I should, we are short on Mods at the moment for various reasons. A couple of the guys are on breaks busy with life and the girls are going through some changes.

If you want another child board tell us. Give me an argument and I'll do it. BUT, each board takes up bandwidth and some clown or clowness has to pay for it 

If it will be of use then it is not a problem.

Let me know, tell me what you want and why. I have no interest in restricting any areas that you guys need or want in anyway.

Cindy

first i just want to say that happy posts about finally getting started also make me happy, even if i'm in a situation where i don't know if i can ever get started at anything. i don't see those types of posts as much of a problem, i think this is more about questions about the medical part of transition taking up over half of the front page here.


when i compare ftm boards with mtf boards, the ftm boards really are swarmed with posts that should be in the "transitioning" section. i don't think it's too helpful to have over half the posts here from people having questions about hrt or top surgery. i once saw three posts made within a short enough time frame to be on the front page, asking for exactly the same type of advice before surgery. it buries all other conversation about topics like dating, skin problems, school, and worries that aren't directly linked to the effects of t, or which surgeon to choose.

the "transitioning" boards look rather mtf dominated. hrt board was probably supposed to be inclusive, but it's impossible for guys to find their way to any thread about t there. maybe we really need a different hrt child board specifically for the guys here. possibly in the ftm section, or the mods will have to help us out with moving threads to another place until the guys get used to it.

another thing i notice, is that ftm surgeries are conveniently placed as child boards of the srs section. which means that a guy will have to traverse a whole wall of posts made by the girls here, in order to get to the place they wanted to go to. yes, the links are on the top of that page, but it does make the guys' problems seem just a little less important.

there is a possibility that hrt and surgery could be just one child board in this section. just like all types of ftm gear is in only one child board. as someone already pointed out, there aren't too many guys here, compared to the number of girls.

androgyne section also saw a need to put clothing discussions in a child board when it started taking up too much place on the front page. there are so many aspects to life other than hrt and surgery that we might want to discuss with like minded people, and it might be a little easier for those who can't get hrt or surgery (or don't want it) to join discussion about other topics, if other topics are more visible (i.e. ftm hrt and surgery talk get their own child board).


feel free to state your agreement or disagreement. i'm only trying to find a solution, so please be constructive about it.