Hello everyone,

I'm truly sorry to subject you all to this note, but this is something I feel we all have to confront.  Since I have been a member of Susan's, I have run into many different characters.  Some very different from myself and others very much the same.  Everyone here has a unique persona and something special to add here  Even if that addition is different  (support, humor, insight, reality checks, etc) we are lucky to be part of something special as a member of the community. At the end of the day, this is why I love the site.  People that come from all walks of life and different personality types can unite and find common ground and support because of our shared condition.  In a way, that is an amazing thing. 

However, differences can at times breed contempt and anger.  All it takes is a little incident for us to lose our cool and forget why we are here and the purpose of this site.  I've been a part of this problem myself and it makes me feel awful.  Any of my so called support gets thrown in the trash when I lose sight of why I'm here.  Yes, I'm flawed and over emotional, which greatly bothers me.  For that, I say I'm sorry to everyone that I've hurt or annoyed throughout my time here. 

With all of that said, I'm not the only one who could benefit from this realization.  I'm stepping into matters that don't concern me and probably should just shut my mouth, but I see little resolution and believe that something needs to be done.  Forgive me for doing so, especially since I sense that I'm not well liked by everyone in these camps.  Also, I have very little to go by and don't know why things are the way they are; therefore, I don't pretend to know everything.  Still I have to speak up because I'm noticing that there is friction among members that I care deeply about.  What the source of this friction is or who is right or wrong isn't what's important.  I've seen it go on for a while and have witnessed minor incidents breed inner turmoil.  Perhaps these external events highlighted personality differences?  Maybe there is a fundamental disagreement about how we should conduct ourselves or how situations should be handled?  I don't know.  What I do know is I've seen it before and know I will see it again.  Let us all step back and ask ourselves a really important question.  Is it really worth it?  At the end of the day, what is fighting, name calling, running away, and or open hostility going to solve?  I've been a part of that and can tell you it does nothing.  All it does is create pain and regret.  I'm still learning to deal with my past sins and don't feel pride, but the important thing I take away is to improve and prevent these things from happening again.  This takes personal reflection and hard work on ourselves.  Running away doesn't solve anything nor does making others run.  Everyone loses in that scenario.  Isn't it better for us all to find common ground and move forward?  Shouldn't we face our own demons, better ourselves, build bridges and make amends?  Isn't that the point of a support site?

In any event, I suspect this won't be well received by anyone.  If I am universally hated for such comments, I'm really sorry.  I just want to point out things that have been troubling me and really hope there can be a resolution.  Believe me, I have my own flaws which are very well documented, so I don't pretend to be holier than thou.  I have much to fix myself.  Overall, the purpose for this letter is for us all to take responsibility for our sins and to fix the damage that has been done.  Resolution is always possible but it takes work and effort on both sides.  I'd hate for there to be permanent scars on this site and for us to lose people that are truly important.  Again, I don't know everything or even anything really, but I want us all to remember why we are here and try to get along (something I must learn myself). 

We all make mistakes. We all get angry. I haven't yet encountered any of this on this site yet, but I trust that everyone is capable of learning from their mistakes and moving on. We're all family here, family forgives.
Hope this helped you feel a little better

Quote from: learningtolive on October 13, 2013, 01:37:26 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm truly sorry to subject you all to this note, but this is something I feel we all have to confront.  Since I have been a member of Susan's, I have run into many different characters.  Some very different from myself and others very much the same.  Everyone here has a unique persona and something special to add here  Even if that addition is different  (support, humor, insight, reality checks, etc) we are lucky to be part of something special as a member of the community. At the end of the day, this is why I love the site.  People that come from all walks of life and different personality types can unite and find common ground and support because of our shared condition.  In a way, that is an amazing thing. 

However, differences can at times breed contempt and anger.  All it takes is a little incident for us to lose our cool and forget why we are here and the purpose of this site.  I've been a part of this problem myself and it makes me feel awful.  Any of my so called support gets thrown in the trash when I lose sight of why I'm here.  Yes, I'm flawed and over emotional, which greatly bothers me.  For that, I say I'm sorry to everyone that I've hurt or annoyed throughout my time here. 

With all of that said, I'm not the only one who could benefit from this realization.  I'm stepping into matters that don't concern me and probably should just shut my mouth, but I see little resolution and believe that something needs to be done.  Forgive me for doing so, especially since I sense that I'm not well liked by everyone in these camps.  Also, I have very little to go by and don't know why things are the way they are; therefore, I don't pretend to know everything.  Still I have to speak up because I'm noticing that there is friction among members that I care deeply about.  What the source of this friction is or who is right or wrong isn't what's important.  I've seen it go on for a while and have witnessed minor incidents breed inner turmoil.  Perhaps these external events highlighted personality differences?  Maybe there is a fundamental disagreement about how we should conduct ourselves or how situations should be handled?  I don't know.  What I do know is I've seen it before and know I will see it again.  Let us all step back and ask ourselves a really important question.  Is it really worth it?  At the end of the day, what is fighting, name calling, running away, and or open hostility going to solve?  I've been a part of that and can tell you it does nothing.  All it does is create pain and regret.  I'm still learning to deal with my past sins and don't feel pride, but the important thing I take away is to improve and prevent these things from happening again.  This takes personal reflection and hard work on ourselves.  Running away doesn't solve anything nor does making others run.  Everyone loses in that scenario.  Isn't it better for us all to find common ground and move forward?  Shouldn't we face our own demons, better ourselves, build bridges and make amends?  Isn't that the point of a support site?

In any event, I suspect this won't be well received by anyone.  If I am universally hated for such comments, I'm really sorry.  I just want to point out things that have been troubling me and really hope there can be a resolution.  Believe me, I have my own flaws which are very well documented, so I don't pretend to be holier than thou.  I have much to fix myself.  Overall, the purpose for this letter is for us all to take responsibility for our sins and to fix the damage that has been done.  Resolution is always possible but it takes work and effort on both sides.  I'd hate for there to be permanent scars on this site and for us to lose people that are truly important.  Again, I don't know everything or even anything really, but I want us all to remember why we are here and try to get along (something I must learn myself). 

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but I'll say this about you: If you feel that you're not well liked here, it is your own mind building a prison for you. Trust me, I have people here who don't like me. I don't let that convince me that I'm not well liked. The warts will always be there, don't let them win. Hugs, Devlyn

You were one of the first on my buddy list LTL. I love you for the simple fact that you do speak your mind. Disagreements happen everywhere, but I think the members here get along very well. Families have issue's all the time, but they work them out and grow from it. I would do anything for the family members here because they have already shown me a great deal of love, compassion and genuine caring. YOU ARE part of that family and are valuable to us. I do not know of anyone who dislike's you. PM me if you need to. I worry about all of my family and want to see them healthy and flourishing. I love you LTL even though I have never met you. I DO know you from your writing and respect you greatly. BIG HUG! BIG HUG!

This isn't so much about me at all, but other people and the strained relations I have noticed.  I'm worried about some people and infighting going on, so that's why I posted this.  It's something everyone can learn from (myself included).  As for me, I do intend on learning from my past sins and will work hard to continue improving myself and creating a positive atmosphere (despite my failures). 

Don't feel bad in any way LtL.

One thing that I have learned from this site is that many people are in pain. Many get relief from suddenly realising that there are people just like them. They can see that we struggle but that we can overcome anything and live fantastic full lives.

Part of that journey is learning how to relate to people. Many members have missed out of their formative years of learning how to interact with people as normal men and woman do.

Many MtF are having to realise how to struggle with their new emotions and their place in society. Many FtM are learning how to 'man up' and be the strong loving stable men that form the fabric of society. Many androgyne are learning that it is fine to feel how they feel and there is nothing wrong with that. Together with our genderfluid colleagues who learn that they too are loved and accepted as normal human beings.

Throw them all together in a safe environment and suddenly people grow. Conflict is part of growth, how we deal with it, how we understand not to cause it.

Fortunately Susan has created an environment where that growth can occur safely and we have staff and members (including you Sis)  who help and guide.

There is little that is more rewarding than watching a troubled, struggling wrecked person join as a new member and watch them grow, through all steps of growth. Then suddenly they are becoming leaders and passing on their love and wisdom in turn to our new friends.

LtL you have a lot to be proud of. Wear it with pride

Hugs

Cindy

Remember that whatever someone posts is their own thoughts. It has nothing to do with you personally.
People may be angry, frustrated, stressed, or confused. Some want to vent. It's best to respect the individual
and put yourself in their shoes.

Most of the time people get into a misdirected argument and they dont mean anything personally.

it would be great if we could all just get along, i agree with you on that. but i'm afraid the best we can hope for in this diverse community that we are, are some civil manners.

some people don't mesh well. there are people whom i'm careful not to get into arguments with, simply because i know our ways are too different and it will end infernally unless one of us withdraws early enough.

we can't expect everyone to get along, unfortunately. there are too many people that i don't get along with. not because i hate them or anything, and i don't think they have all that much against me either (well, most of them don't, but some might). we're just too different or similar in the wrong way.

i think this will be a little about picking one's fights. i'm guilty of picking the wrong fights at times, just like many others. but i try to not get too into it unless someone seriously manages to step on me, rather than "just" some values of mine.

and there's also this about the benefit of doubt. everything becomes a little easier when i don't assume that the whole world is out to get me. but when i'm in a bad mood, i'll still take anything as a personal attack. knowing this, i avoid anything that might become a conflict on bad days, unless people actively push for a fight. that luckily doesn't happen too often online. but if i fail to recognize the danger... well, i can only hope that people will manage to forgive me later. just like i'd forgive them.

i also see conflicts that i think are unnecessary. it happens. one reason might be that people are easily blinded by their own pain and fears, and that makes it so hard to open up and see the other person's writings without bias. i wish i could say that i'm able to do this, but unfortunately i'm not. so when i get agitated over something, i often end up deleting a long reply that i find too crass after having written it. better not to say anything if i can't present it in a civil manner.

Quote from: Joules on October 13, 2013, 08:24:10 PM
I'm sad to say, "The Brady Bunch" just doesn't exist LTL.  It's a lovely concept, but it's not reasonable.

My first wife was a big fan of the Brady bunch.  When we went to counseling prior to our divorce, she just kept repeating the claim that our problems come from the fact that "we don't have a maid".  Pffft, I never went back to therapy with her, a maid would have been cheaper anyway.  I didn't connect what her complaint was until many years later. "We don't have an ALICE for a maid."

I think she was struggling with the whole "Brady Paradise Lost" thing.  I hope she finally got it figured out.  It's a beautiful fantasy but it's just not gonna happen.

I only vaguely know the brady bunch, but I understand your point.  It's just that it really saddens me when people fight.  I'm sort of a believer in fixing problems and mending fences.  Whether that is always attainable is another thing, but I'd hate to see fighting between people that I know have good hearts and intentions.  I'm probably interfering where I am not needed or wanted; however, I really would hate to lose members or see people retreat for reasons that could easily be solved. 

Quote from: Taka on October 14, 2013, 04:39:53 AM
it would be great if we could all just get along, i agree with you on that. but i'm afraid the best we can hope for in this diverse community that we are, are some civil manners.

some people don't mesh well. there are people whom i'm careful not to get into arguments with, simply because i know our ways are too different and it will end infernally unless one of us withdraws early enough.

we can't expect everyone to get along, unfortunately. there are too many people that i don't get along with. not because i hate them or anything, and i don't think they have all that much against me either (well, most of them don't, but some might). we're just too different or similar in the wrong way.

i think this will be a little about picking one's fights. i'm guilty of picking the wrong fights at times, just like many others. but i try to not get too into it unless someone seriously manages to step on me, rather than "just" some values of mine.

and there's also this about the benefit of doubt. everything becomes a little easier when i don't assume that the whole world is out to get me. but when i'm in a bad mood, i'll still take anything as a personal attack. knowing this, i avoid anything that might become a conflict on bad days, unless people actively push for a fight. that luckily doesn't happen too often online. but if i fail to recognize the danger... well, i can only hope that people will manage to forgive me later. just like i'd forgive them.

i also see conflicts that i think are unnecessary. it happens. one reason might be that people are easily blinded by their own pain and fears, and that makes it so hard to open up and see the other person's writings without bias. i wish i could say that i'm able to do this, but unfortunately i'm not. so when i get agitated over something, i often end up deleting a long reply that i find too crass after having written it. better not to say anything if i can't present it in a civil manner.

Conflicts can't be avoided, but making them personal and allowing it to destroy relationships can be.  I've struggled very much with my mother to be consciously aware that you can love someone and have a hard time with their stance.  Nonetheless, that doesn't mean my mother and I should end our relationship or one of us should run away.  It's not going to help anyone in the situation and will probably create further damage.   Sometimes direct communication and facing our problems together is what's needed. 

Again, I don't know everything about what I'm referring to, but I care about people here and want to see a positive outcome.

I am an infrequent visitor to this site, but I get the pain and sometimes bitchiness I read when I go to some sections in the forum.  I live it myself and I understand.  But I kind of feel like we all share this burden/blessing (depending on how you look at things) and sometimes nothing else.  We all have different interests and opinions and sometimes the things people write in an anonymous post on a bulletin board, they would never say in person, face to face.  Most of us really don't get the time to just hang out together and talk about things that aren't as dramatic as the issues we have to face because of GID.  So I think it is easier to just blow people off, or be just plain mean on the internet.  But for all the bad things, there are some wonderful sections of this forum where people share birthdays or news stories showing something good happening to a transwoman or transman.  (But there are also horrible stories of assaults and murders on my trans-sisters.) 
My point to you is (1) I believe the internet forum itself leads to people writing horrible things because we don't really know each other as people and we are not talking face to face, (2) however, if it weren't for an anonymous forum, many of us would not feel comfortable disclosing some issues that are pretty scary to face and we would have no one with whom to share these feelings and (3) there are some wonderful parts to this forum where people share good news.
My belief is that personal attacks will continue to occur just because we are on an internet forum, but this place is still worth checking out.

If you put two people together, no matter how much they may get along, arguments will happen.  If we just respect each others and take nothing personally, it can help.

Two things I always remember.

1. If you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all.

2. Opinions are like belly buttons.  Everyone has one and many don't hold water.

You. LTL, are my sister and I love you.  I may not always agree with my sisters and brothers, but I always love them.

Quote from: cocoon on October 18, 2013, 11:32:44 AM
I am an infrequent visitor to this site, but I get the pain and sometimes bitchiness I read when I go to some sections in the forum.  I live it myself and I understand.  But I kind of feel like we all share this burden/blessing (depending on how you look at things) and sometimes nothing else.  We all have different interests and opinions and sometimes the things people write in an anonymous post on a bulletin board, they would never say in person, face to face.  Most of us really don't get the time to just hang out together and talk about things that aren't as dramatic as the issues we have to face because of GID.  So I think it is easier to just blow people off, or be just plain mean on the internet.  But for all the bad things, there are some wonderful sections of this forum where people share birthdays or news stories showing something good happening to a transwoman or transman.  (But there are also horrible stories of assaults and murders on my trans-sisters.) 
My point to you is (1) I believe the internet forum itself leads to people writing horrible things because we don't really know each other as people and we are not talking face to face, (2) however, if it weren't for an anonymous forum, many of us would not feel comfortable disclosing some issues that are pretty scary to face and we would have no one with whom to share these feelings and (3) there are some wonderful parts to this forum where people share good news.
My belief is that personal attacks will continue to occur just because we are on an internet forum, but this place is still worth checking out.

Oh, I totally agree.  Susan's is a great site with a very positive vibe.  I guess I wanted to address something in order to keep things that way.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien CVT on October 18, 2013, 12:26:37 PM
If you put two people together, no matter how much they may get along, arguments will happen.  If we just respect each others and take nothing personally, it can help.

Two things I always remember.

1. If you can't say anything nice, say nothing at all.

2. Opinions are like belly buttons.  Everyone has one and many don't hold water.

You. LTL, are my sister and I love you.  I may not always agree with my sisters and brothers, but I always love them.

I agree.  I'm just fearful when the respect portion starts to fly out the window because of emotion.  I've done that and can say it does not equal a positive turn out.  It's just something for us all to keep in mind. 

Quote from: Joules on October 18, 2013, 12:47:28 PM
"The Brady Bunch" was a sitcom from the '60s-'70s.  It was the story of a large, reconstituted family consisting of a Mother with 3 daughters from a previous marriage, and a Father with 3 sons also from a previous marriage.  Alice was the long-suffering but pleasant maid who served as the glue, the moderator, the arbiter of friction within the family.  Although many people were very fond of the show, I found it to be corny, sappy and twinkie. (My apologies to those Brady fans here).  There was also a movie many years later which spoofed the original series.  You should definitely sample some Brady Bunch episodes prior to seeing the movie.  I did enjoy the movie.    (As an aside, I view my first wife's stubborn complaint in therapy of "no maid" as a means of dodging genuine discussion and exploration of our real issues.  We didn't need to pay a counselor just to avoid progress.)

Every society or social setting needs rules and guidelines to exist.  There needs to be some manner of maintaining and enforcing same.  We have such here, they are called TOS and moderators.  Perhaps you should take a service position here at Susan's (and I'm serious btw).  I'm not criticizing the structure, I have great admiration and respect for the structure as it is, but your voice, opinions and hard work could go very far in further improvements of the system.

I've seen the brady bunch, but it's way too before my time.  I don't think I can have the same nostalgic appreciation for it that others may have.  I did watch flipper reruns as a kid though.  I loved the Dolphin!

I'd actually make a poor staff member.  I'm a fairly emotional girl and that may not make for proper order.  I've made quite a few mistakes in the past and there is much for me to learn in life.  Most come from a more mature background for this very reason.  Sure, I have compassion for others, but that is something I can give as a member.  And best of all, I can grow myself while I help contribute to other people's development (albeit in a very very limited capacity).  To be honest, that's all I care about at the end of the day.  Sometimes that can be side tracked when you have other concerns to worry about.  There is a bit more to being a member of the staff and much hard work involved I'm sure.