I had that... the moment I read about it it was like 'oh that explains everything'.

Quote from: Joules on October 19, 2013, 06:11:57 PM
A lot of good answers here, many I used myself.

One of the things i did was to Google for favorite male activities and same thing for female.

I found a few lists, one of them that grabbed my attention was the number one male bonding activity:  Watching sports with the guys.  I hate it.

I also Googled top fantasies for both genders.  Not much clicked for male fantasies, but to be fair, not so many of the female fantasies had appeal either.

The thing that clinched it for me tho is that ALL my favorite sexual fantasies involved me as a female.  I always thought this is just what guys do.  Umm, err, my therapist told me quite plainly that it's definitely not a typical male fantasy.

I love that last line... you mean I wasn't supposed to be imagining that w/ my wife for 10 years??

And your other ones are fun too... very interesting. I seem to match the top women's fantasies pretty well - but the top mens ones are similar anyway (though more visual / active oriented - which I am not).

I've tried some of the top male hobbies... but only stuck with homebrewing (and not even that right now - can't drink beer on this diet). Coaching & fantasy sports are the only ones that don't interest me at all. I've always been into geeky stuff, though... which is male oriented. I can't find a list of popular women's hobbies... but I'm way more into those stereotypical things: cooking, macrame (I tried crochet recently too... fun, just time consuming), cake decorating, photography, music, reading, ballroom dancing (an old one from college), tai chi, calligraphy, writing...

Hobbies, though... everything I understand about gender says it doesn't matter, it's a social thing not a gender thing. I do have lots of common feminine interests (some of them masculinized) and my stereotypically masculine activities were always geeky. I guess I'm just a geek girl at heart

Quote from: Emmaline on October 20, 2013, 04:32:15 AM
I had that... the moment I read about it it was like 'oh that explains everything'.

Me too. I was in a library had the courage to pull a book on it and when I read it I started crying...I was thirty been married for a while with two little kids.
First time I thought about transitioning and here I am at 54 with same issue trying to cope.

"The thing that clinched it for me tho is that ALL my favorite sexual fantasies involved me as a female.  I always thought this is just what guys do.  Umm, err, my therapist told me quite plainly that it's definitely not a typical male fantasy."

Quote above.. me too.. never once have I fantasized about being the guy.. always the girl since the first you know what happened when I was a kid.
I should bring that up with my therapist.. I never admitted that one..
Carrie

Quote from: carrie359 on October 20, 2013, 04:38:37 PM
Me too. I was in a library had the courage to pull a book on it and when I read it I started crying...I was thirty been married for a while with two little kids.
First time I thought about transitioning and here I am at 54 with same issue trying to cope.

"The thing that clinched it for me tho is that ALL my favorite sexual fantasies involved me as a female.  I always thought this is just what guys do.  Umm, err, my therapist told me quite plainly that it's definitely not a typical male fantasy."

Quote above.. me too.. never once have I fantasized about being the guy.. always the girl since the first you know what happened when I was a kid.
I should bring that up with my therapist.. I never admitted that one..
Carrie

Knowing what you have and doing something about it are entirely different animals! I knew in high school... but it took me 20 more years.

People often ask 'so how long have you felt you were a woman?'.

It's a cliche question. It's also predictable.

The important thing to remember, is, not how long have I felt I was a woman, but, how do you know you were ever a man?

I led a life 'assuming' I was a guy. The thing is, how was I even to know if I ever was one?

You are who you are, and you always were who you are. You were never someone else.

So in essence, I have only realized I was a woman for a short while only because I was unaware my perception of what a man is was flawed.

I used to think I had two people in my head, until I realized, there was only me in there. The guy I thought had been there, was always me, I had just not realized all of me was female. I had merely thought some parts of me weren't female. But in truth, I have never actually known what it is to be a man.

that's a good point, lesley.
how was i supposed to know that i wasn't really a woman, when my whole perception of what makes a woman was so flawed.
(and even worse when i can't match what i'm fairly sure is an accurate perception of what makes a man.)
i really was hoping for the longest time that i would find concrete evidence that i'm just a manly woman. that's what i seem like, but. the reason why i appear as one is not that i'm woman and manly.

Nicely put.

QuoteThe important thing to remember, is, not how long have I felt I was a woman, but, how do you know you were ever a man?

I agree with that!

And I'll venture further and ask "how does anyone know that they are a man or a woman as no one can say absolutely 100% exactly WHAT feeling like a man is, and what feeling like a woman is" So how can anyone know their correct gender or what their target gender is the right one, if they didn't know what their assigned gender was right or wrong?

I am not being picky or invalidating anyone's identity or their replies on this thread at all, by the way, just incase the wording comes across as that. I'm very much not picking holes as everyone is their own best judge of who they are and who they need to be. 

I am however approaching this thread as someone who doesn't feel a close affiliation with either male or female, just fragments of each and an overiding confusion. That's why I consider myself eiter gender-fluid or androgyne. Hence why I'm asking "how do you ever know what you are, and how do you know that what you're feeling IS what your gender is supposed to feel?"

The questions related to who I'd rather hang out with just leave me perplexed. I'd simply rather hang around with the girls and guys I liked is my answer. Why would I want to segregate myself socially to only one gender group?

It does worry me that there's still this intense need to stick to binary affiliations, situations and social groups. It worries me as I don't understand the feeling of needing to belong to either gender group. I don't understand the overwhelming wish to be affiliated with specific gender bathrooms, specific gender friends and specific gender activities. I just wish to be able to seen as I am, I don't see why any other social constructs has anything to do with how I feel.

If I couldn't hang around with guys anymore I'd hate it as I have lots of things in common with guys. And If I couldn't hang around women anymore I'd also hate it as I have lots in common with women too. I think that the segregations of the genders are part of the massive problem with society, perhaps one of societies biggest problems.
I don't think its wise to immerse yourself 100% into any one of the genders, as you miss out on a hell of alot of insight and experience from the other gender.

Lots of relationships seem to fail because the girl sees things one way and the man sees it the other, and their friends of the same gender also reinforce the same polarised views. Thus, there's all this women are from Venus, Men are from Mars crap. And once again, the whole divide of men and women which helps cause GID and loads of other social issues continues.

If i ever did transition to female, I wouldn't stop having guy friends or doing guy things. I know I'm different to them even if I feel comfortable in those situations.

So asking myself questions about what restroom I'd rather use or whether I'd like to shop with the girls or have a beer with guys is totally and utterly arbitary to the actual situation and identity issue.

Stella,
    I couldn't agree with you more, good comments!

I don't completely understand the middle ground, myself. It totally makes sense in terms of the gender spectrum (ahh... the Fourier Transform of my gender psyche). I don't see how it fits, exactly. I mean - we're all fighting for that middle ground Stella's talking about. Nobody (I think??) wants to give up all male friendship in favor of female relationships. We talk like that because we have so much more in common with female conversation and often feel excluded from it. ... The number of times I felt excluded from baby showers and the like... female parties, etc.; and how many times I turned down a bachelor party or didn't really have a lot of fun doing it. Only my brother's was fun - I planned it and he was only interested in getting some beer (lots of beer) and food in Boston.

Anyway... yes, I have male friends I like and would like to keep (my brother for one... I don't have a lot of friends in general). I also see lots of women who interact in a friendly way with men... I don't see anything wrong with that - it's the only way I can have a halfway decent conversation at work or cub scouts (unless they're really seeing my true gender!)

So... I don't really see the difference between Stella's post on androgeny and what I want as a feminist... the only difference is how much of it we want (I'm still never going to like Fantasy Sports).

I had initially felt back in 1996 that I wanted to fully transition MtF, damn the torpedoes full speed ahead, pull out all the stops! I took it at a slow but steady pace but fourteen years and an orchiectomy into it suddenly had some reservations. I de-transitioned for two years, which I don't advise anyone to do because it's tough on one's health and everyone around them. After a lot of introspection I concluded that I needed to get back on the bandwagon but temper it because I really wanted to be able to walk on either side of the gender fence successfully at will and take on a non-binary presentation as an androgynous person. I have discovered that those who really and truly care for me are able to accept me for whichever side of my persona they prefer to acknowledge, because oddly that's how others continue to view us through their eyes. Some still see me as my male self and that's all they are able to accept, others see me as a sort of masculine female and accept that over fully male and that is fine with me. Those who were "friends" who accept neither just disappear which is also fine with me, because they revealed themselves as having only been on for the ride all along anyway and are shallow people.

Quote from: "I'm Stella Stanhope, and that's why I drink". on October 22, 2013, 05:27:03 PM
I agree with that!

And I'll venture further and ask "how does anyone know that they are a man or a woman as no one can say absolutely 100% exactly WHAT feeling like a man is, and what feeling like a woman is" So how can anyone know their correct gender or what their target gender is the right one, if they didn't know what their assigned gender was right or wrong?

The only way I can describe what it feels like to be totally aligned is like (well, for me, at least), swallowing a pill. I have the pill in my mouth, the water or whatever, and then I usually have to wait a few seconds for something to "click", otherwise I'm going to sputter and the pill is going to get stuck and take what seems like the rest of the day to make it all the way down. If I do it wrong, there's the uncomfortable feeling of something foreign stuck at the bottom of my throat. If I do it right, wait for that moment where my throat is relaxed, the water and pill are in a good position, then it goes down like nothing. But that feeling is one of "correctness", in a way. That's what I think it can feel like.

And I'm not even on the "spectrum"! This is why I feel like I'm partly neutrois, though, as I am faintly oriented in some meaningful way rather than just floating in the genderlessness of space.

This is a great thread with some very thought provoking ideas being shared. Thank you! I'm on my second official attempt at questioning gender. My main word of advice is to avoid gender stereo types at all costs and focus on the feelings. Relax and do only as you feel. What feels good and what doesn't. Open your mind for both your birth gender and your desired gender to move past the stereo types. Explore the world from a neutral mind. Take baby steps, explore, and enjoy the experience.

Quote from: Emmaline on October 19, 2013, 07:25:39 AM
If the reason your asking questions is you are having trouble making sure your trans, try going back through your life and note down all the tramatic experiences or strong memories.  Do this without looking for specifics... just get them down on paper.  Dont force it-  just get them down no matter how irrelevant.

Now go back over them and look for possible gender connections.  Chances are some things that disturbed you may have a gender trigger.

That reminds me of the time that I threw a fit in 3rd grade because all the girls had to cut out yellow skirts for the paper selves and all the boys had to cut out blue pants and I wasn't allowed to cut out blue pants because I was a girl and there wouldn't be enough blue paper for all the girls. So I threw a huge fit and eventually after another teacher calmed me down they let me at least make yellow pants. I have had a vendetta against yellow ever since.


Also on the whole reading about transgender stuff. I never even thought I could be transgender until I saw a video of someone explaining how they knew they were transgender. I thought no I can't be, that's not me, I didn't always know since I was little. But as soon as I saw that video my jaw just dropped and I was like oh that makes sense. Then I fiercely denied and I've been slowly starting to accept it. I'm still doubting myself honestly, but I can't see myself going back to the way things were before either.

One question I had to ask myself before going FT was how would I cope with walking into life and people laughing at me. Or would I be better hidden and safe from ridicule?

I decided quite quickly that I didn't care if people laughed at me, ridiculed me or insulted me. I was happier being me than being hidden.

So I went FT.

No one laughed, they applauded.
No one ridiculed, they talked to me and wanted to know me
No one insulted me, they offered me their love and friendship.

And all the doubts went away.

Would I have been satisfied having died an old man? Definitely not!

Quote from: Emmaline on October 18, 2013, 08:17:52 AM
Gimme that button. 

Lay back.  Close your eyes.  Imagine yourself female, waking up and about go about your day.  Imagine what your sleeping in, imagine the whole experience footstep by footstep...breakfast,  going to the bathroom, getting ready, meeting friends... perhaps shopping, enjoying the weekend.  Do this for a good half an hour in as much detail as you can.  Are you smiling just thinking about it?

OMG Emmaline, I just did your suggestion and OMG, I could think of a hundred reasons why I could be a lady and then felt grossed out why I don't like being male. OMG. Looks like I have a huge topic to talk with my councilor. Wow thank you....