I've never been very good at being an adult male.  Just never can seem to be "one of the guys" no matter how hard I try.  But I get along well socially with women.  I'm middle aged and was married 30 years (now divorced), with two great kids.  Fortunately, my work allowed me to work alone most of the time and a few tries at being a supervisor or leader have always ended in disaster with quick reversion to non-supervisory tasks.   Since I was a teen ager, I hated having pubic hair, have always shaved most of it off, and wore boys XL underwear for many years.  A bit larger now in the waist, I now wear women's undies, always the old fashioned, cotton band leg "granny panties" with which I feel very comfortable.  Much of my every day clothing is women's, however sufficiently androgynous in appearance that I wear them regularly without drawing attention.  No one's ever noticed that the shirt buttons or pants zippers are on the left.  I just don't feel right in men's clothing.  I don't believe I want to be a woman, and have investigated even being castrated.  In recent months, I've started taking Androcur, an anti-androgyn, to stop testosterone production.  I notice now my breasts are beginning to enlarge a bit, so I've also just ordered Tamoxifen, which will keep me from having gynecomastia (although having an AA bosom is OK).  I wish I had been born female so I could become F2M, physically male in appearance, except no penis and with a vagina.

I don't even know what it is I'm trying to ask, but perhaps a reader might offer some suggestions.  Just stating where I'm at but unsure as to where I want to go.

I understand your feelings, rbulova.  I identify as Androgyne, have been married nearly 30 years, have kids, And only in the past few years realized that the nagging feelings I had were really gender dysphoria.

I was born male-bodied, and remain much that way, but had a very female-like puberty, including persistent pubertal gynecomastia.  There is nothing to be ashamed of.  And, I might add, that self-medicating is not a good idea - too much can go wrong.

It is important for people like you and me to know our baseline hormonal levels and receive the proper HRT regime - whatever that might be.  As more research is done, we find that very low dose cross hormone therapy can be quite beneficial for those who identify as "non-binary" (neither fully male or fully female).

You represent an interesting twist on being transgendered.  I am interested in seeing how things progress.

Maybe I'm being nit-picky, but I just wanted to point out that FTMs do have a penis and most, if not all, of us certainly wouldn't use the v-word to describe the other body part mentioned.

Although it can be tempting to dwell on what could have been (for you, starting out physically female and transitioning; for me and some other FTMs, simply being born physically male), I've found from personal experience that it only makes one's perception of reality more difficult to handle. Sort of like if you concentrate for a long time on what it would be like to be insanely rich, and then once you go about your daily life, you feel all the more poor in comparison. So, my advice on that is don't think too much on the "what if"s, because they'll just drag you down and make it harder to face reality.

Good luck on whatever you end up doing

it should be fully possible to wish one were a man with a vagina, i actually thing i've heard about that before. the experience is valid, if you have it, but it definitely isn't the same as being ftm. just as being mtf isn't the same as what i wish to be. i do feel like a male crossdresser some times, and often wonder how things would be if i first fully transitioned or were born as the opposite sex, and then either detransitioned or did a partial transition.

but there are a few problems with this transition thing. if you as a maab decide to go for srs so you can correct your genitals, you'd end up without the gonads needed to produce testosterone naturally. and most people think that a person who'd rather have a vagina, also would want female sex hormones rather than male ones. perhaps that is even the reason why you think it would be easier to be ftm. anyone could understand your want to be a man, but nobody would try too hard to force you to give up the vagina.

talking to a therapist might be an idea. search until you find someone who gets what you're talking about.

I mean there called manginas, men who want to have veginas.

A casual Internet search suggests that the word is more typically a derogatory term for feminist men (who, as a rule, advocate for gender equality rather than female-supremacy or some other bizarre masturbation fantasy of people who still think a woman's place is in the kitchen), so I'd be leery of using that one.

I'm not entirely sure I've got this down, but it sounds like this is what rbulova wishes to have is:

Wearing women's clothes
A vagina
Low testosterone
No male genitalia

And...

A male identity

I suppose this sort of scenario begs the question: "what is the essence of being a man or a woman?"  If someone wants female-typed genitals and "female" clothes, and wants to be without male-typed genitals and male hormones, can such a person still be a man deep down?  Since you seem to dislike so many things associated with the male identity and a strong preference for female-identified traits, what does your male identity give you?  What do you still cherish about being a man, so much that you would undergo a transition to become one if you were born with girl bits?  If you or we can learn a little about how this all ties together, I think we can do more to help.

Definitely see a therapist (preferably gender specialist), though.

The only thing I see that being FtM would grant you is more steps toward achieving the body that you want. Instead of your goalpost being 'point C', why not just move it to B so that you can go from where you are now to where you want to be without creating even more of an obstacle course for yourself in between? Thinking of things in terms of "here" and "there" might help clear things up for you. And mind, "here" is going to change, and it's perfectly OK if "there" does also.

But definitely count me in among the 'see a therapist' camp.

This is exactly how I am at the moment but the other way round! Born F, I really wish I was born M so that I could be MTF trans. It feels selfish, though, seeing the struggles and pain MTFs go through every day but I'M SO CONFUSED!! I also want to be a boy, but not a man, and a woman, not a girl. I'm a teenager and so I'm neither of these. At the moment I'd say I'm neutral or something like that but I look at MTFs with so much envy and I don't know why, because surely I should be happy as a girl if that's what I want to eventually be? If I call myself a girl, I call myself a lesbian. So I really don't want a penis as this would defeat the point of being a lesbian but I DO WANT TO BE A BOY and I don't at the same time because I really want to be both M and F. I have massive swings between genders and it infuriates me but I enjoy it at the same time. Cross-dressing is AMAZING, but I just look like a tomboy, which I'm not. I'm actually quite "girly". Does anybody else feel like this?

Quote from: Taka on October 20, 2013, 07:38:01 AM
it should be fully possible to wish one were a man with a vagina, i actually thing i've heard about that before.

I think that's a lot more common than people might think. It seems to just now be that guys are able to talk about this anonymously via the Internet. There's still a lot of taboo surrounding it but it seems to be a form of ->-bleeped-<-. We all know that gender is not black and white. Someone can identify male, like their body for the most part, but be dysphoric about certain things and for some guys, it's their genitalia. Or maybe they just strongly prefer something different.

My friend and co-host on the show has expressed such a desire, but it's not strong enough to be labeled dysphoria. And the surgical options that are currently available do not suit him.

Quote from: dalebert on October 22, 2013, 03:05:17 PM

My friend and co-host on the show has expressed such a desire, but it's not strong enough to be labeled dysphoria. And the surgical options that are currently available do not suit him.

He's cis but wishes he had a vagina?

I'm not entirely sure that if I had been born a girl I wouldn't still have some gender issues. I'm sure I would've been called a tomboy or whatnot because I am not entirely binary, and also hate it when people tell me I can't do something just because of what's between my legs. It probably would've been easier just being who I am if I were born a girl, there is a bit more acceptance going that way.

Quote from: FA on October 22, 2013, 03:19:01 PM
He's cis but wishes he had a vagina?

You could certainly argue that he's not strictly cis, trans being a spectrum and all. Presumably he does not lie on the far end of that spectrum. He's a little to the left... or right. I dunno.

Would I get in trouble for posting a link to the show in which he talks about it?

Quote from: dalebert on October 24, 2013, 12:24:38 PM

Quote from: FA on October 22, 2013, 03:19:01 PM
He's cis but wishes he had a vagina?

You could certainly argue that he's not strictly cis, trans being a spectrum and all. Presumably he does not lie on the far end of that spectrum. He's a little to the left... or right. I dunno.

Would I get in trouble for posting a link to the show in which he talks about it?

No, that's fine. Seems pertinent to the discussion.

This is a new type of trans I've just learnt today. 

Bottomline I guess he just have to have SRS and he becomes what he wants to be.

QuoteWould I get in trouble for posting a link to the show in which he talks about it?

Quote from: FA on October 24, 2013, 01:04:14 PM
No, that's fine. Seems pertinent to the discussion.

Oh my. I can't help but feel like I somehow killed the conversation. That was certainly not my intent. 

no no, it's definitely my fault. for going inactive for a few days.

we are so few here that it happens some times.