This is the question I get from my SO every time we discuss transition. I have a hard time answering this myself. She has said before that she absolutely does not want me presenting full time outside the house, but is pretty grey so far as things like hormones go.

I have done my best to explain my feelings, hopes, and desires to her, but she doesn't want to believe what I am telling her. She knows I have been miserable for who knows how long, and seems to at least partly accept that some kind of change is needed. Unfortunately, she doesn't want things to change this way.

Her main reasoning is that she didn't marry a woman. Plus, she's afraid she is going to be jealous of me. She has a very poor body image, and has even said that when she sees me as a female now, she gets pangs of envy. This, despite my lack of passibility.

On my side of things, I do believe I may be putting too many hopes behind HRT. This is another fear we share. Will I make physical changes to myself without experiencing any psychological relief? It is so hard to know without starting, but then how long am I supposed to give myself before I make a decision to continue?

Which brings us back to the question in the title. How far? I actually believe that, for the forseeable future, a partial transition would work, at least for the next several years.

I realize these are things to discuss with a therapist, but there are few where I live with experience in this situation. So, if anyone around these parts has anything they can share, I would love to hear it.

This is a tough one baby. If she is envious now what will she do when HRT makes changes to you both physical and mental. I know HRT (2mos) has not made a lot of outside changes to me yet, but I know they will happen. The emotional changes already though, Jeesh. I look at things a lot different and get emotional over anything. Our family members here can attest to that. It is either changing or opening up a new world of orientation as well. I was programmed early in life very severely so I can't really tell if the orientation changes are real or just opened up. After a while on HRT I think you will have a hard time not being noticed when out and about. Do some more research here and try to get her into the forum section for significant others. Education, talk and planning are the keys I believe. I think both of you should study this for a while before any HRT because it does change you. Good luck and I hope things work out for you two.

You could always do what I did and start out with just an anti-androgen regimen. It has helped my mental state of well being a massive amount just to get the testosterone out of my system. You won't get that much in terms of physical changes, but at least in my case, I started doing way better mentally. If you can get yourself in a good place mentally, it's much easier to make good decisions about what you want/don't want/need/don't need.

Just take your time, don't set a deadline for goals.

QuoteShe has said before that she absolutely does not want me presenting full time outside the house, but is pretty grey so far as things like hormones go.

Ok, so don't present FT outside. Maybe she'll let you have nail color? (Clear...then "flesh tones", matching your tone...then maybe expand the "flesh tones" outside of your tone range...earrings...etc) One thing at a time, until she's comfortable.

Hormones supposedly don't make permanent changes (physical) until 2-3 months in...My ex told me "if you ever take hormones, we're through!" so your spouse is really accepting the transition. (Mine accepted me as a woman a few months before HRT).

QuoteShe knows I have been miserable for who knows how long, and seems to at least partly accept that some kind of change is needed. Unfortunately, she doesn't want things to change this way.

Yeah, they never want "this way." Although their wants can change, too. If you show that you're taking your time, you respect her concerns, and let her make adjustments to herself...confidence goes up.

QuoteHow far? I actually believe that, for the forseeable future, a partial transition would work, at least for the next several years.

As far as you need to go. There is no finish line until you are happy.

Good luck, and safe (and happy) journey!

Thank you both for the responses so far.

Miyuki, I would love to slow things down more, but I am also at the breaking point. In the end, I may simply need to move forward, concequences be damned, but I will do my best to keep communicating.

As for starting with an AA regimen, I need to talk with the gyno first about what he sees as possible. To be honest, even though my physical dysphoria is a constant source of stress, my emotional state is possibly just as bad.

Visitor, you are so right. She really doesn't want to accept something open ended, though, so for a while it may simply be hrt and part time. She has been extremely accepting so far, and sometimes I feel like I am asking for the moon and the stars. All I want is to feel normal, and not retch every time I see my reflection!

Oh, I missed a post! I'm sorry, Jessica.

Again, it is those very mental changes I desire. I do hear that they show up within a few months for most, so I may try offering that as a test period. She rejected the idea before, but I get the feeling she is changing her thinking there.

My immediate changes were mental and needed. These included a calmness, less aggressive behavior and more relaxed when walking, etc. Just pure relaxation. It was nice to drive normal instead of like Mad Max and I had more patience in long lines. Month two gave me some VERY interesting dreams, wow! That's about all for now. Take care. 

I've been riding the "How far....." wave for decades. One thing that helped me get by was my on again off again affair with low dose HRT which acted as sort of a brain/emotional reset. Something badly needed since I was insisting on just trying to be a "normal" guy. I had experimented with transitioning twice in my 20's and figured it wasn't for me.

Another helpfull way to get by was being able to present as female around the house. Like your wife mine is very concerned about me being seen that way. Basically "Black Out" curtain conditions when I do. No light molecules in, no light molecules out. About once a month or so was all I needed except at times of high stress. Which often came up since another big way to get by was Diversions, Distractions, and some Denial, the 3 D's. Anything to keep me from thinking about things I shouldn't.

HRT, can help emotionally. What totally changed my life was my TG group. When the excrement hit the air handler again a few years ago I knew I had to do something about the trans beast. I was unprepared for the shock of being in a living room filled with people just like me, with almost my story. 

Quote from: Mariax on October 22, 2013, 07:20:50 PM
So, if anyone around these parts has anything they can share, I would love to hear it.

For me, I don't think it was "want to take it". Instead it was "need to take it".

I wanted to be a woman since my teen years. The only thing that kept that at the back of my mind was the conviction that it was impossible. Once I started meeting women who had actually done it, there was going to be no stopping me. My marriage is/was very important to me, but in the end I always considered that to be solely my wife's decision. I am who I am. If she can accept that and stay married to me, that would have been better. But I understood when she said she couldn't. It was painful and terrifying, but the way I saw it, I had no control over how she reacted to what I knew I needed to do.

JoanneB, it is great that you have been able to find people to connect with. I feel kind of alone, because even though there are lots of trans folks around, but not many groups.

Quote from: suzifrommd on October 23, 2013, 06:32:52 AM
For me, I don't think it was "want to take it". Instead it was "need to take it".

This is how I am feeling, and she seems to understand this is a thing I feel I need to do, not just want to do. In the end, it will come down to her and her desires, and I won't do anything to try and stop her if she decides we need to end things. However, if I can find some way so we can both be happy, I want to go with it. I know some people say not to compromise, but I am not really the either-or type.

Also, I know exactly what you mean about it seeming impossible back in the day. The truth was equally liberating and terrifying for me...

  Transitioning will take time, I don't really know how long people take before they say "I'm done!"  For myself, I believe it'll take me three years before I take the final step.  But, even after SRS or Orchiectomy, if you plan to go those routes, you're still going to have to take hormones after.  Body hair and beard removal takes a long time, over a year usually, it's expensive and can be very painful depending on the sensitivity of the area.  You're going to have to decide if you want to commit to the process because it doesn't just involve the HRT pills.  I'd say you never know how you'll react until you try, but that's terrible advice and you should make sure you are serious because there are permanent changes.

  HRT isn't really a panacea for psychological distress, estrogen can cause you to fangirl at one moment and devolve into a hot mess in the next until you become more accustomed to the change in hormones.  Yet, simply starting my HRT was such a huge relief, I've been able to hold onto that knowing I'm slowly coming into myself.  The caveat: I had no intention of turning back to where I was before, it was not a good place.  Essentially I guess I'm saying I don't get what a "partial transition" is.  You could take anti-androgens only, some people have said it has a predominately mood balancing effect by blocking your testosterone production.  However they have little physical effect on their own to my knowledge, which wouldn't necessarily help with your body image over time, and I'm pretty sure you will still become sterile over time.

  While I don't know your significant other, there are probably a myriad of reasons she hasn't discussed with you.  She could be unaware of them or at least the underlying roots of why she is reacting in this way, she could be sparing your feelings, and/or ashamed of how she feels.  Regardless, your relationship will evolve through your transition for better or worse, but I'd highly recommend you seek counseling that can include her, as well as spend time educating her about transgender issues and gender dysphoria.  The better she understands where you are coming from, the less likely she will take it personally as a slight or a manifestation of her undesirability.

  It also seems like she may be worried about the attention you might attract if you start presenting fully immediately, especially since you stated you do not pass.  Unfortunately for us, not blending in is a serious problem that can become dangerous.  It might be hard for her to associate with you in a social setting until she grows more accustomed to your being transgendered.  I guess it really depends on whether you focus on your relationship or your transition.  Even better would be if you could find ways to include your significant other; to make her feel less like you are abandoning her to pursue your own path, and more like you want to take each step lockstep, her beside you.

I came out to my wife about some gender issues more than 20 years ago but we learned to live together.  But I was compelled by my GID to begin taking prescription hormones in July 2012 and that changed everything.   

Your wife has said almost exactly what my wife said.  I guess what surprised me was the statement about envy and body image, but mostly it's the "How far do you want to take this?" question.   She asked me that so many times it made me incredibly insecure about where I was going and if I could stop.  Especially when I wasn't sure I wanted to find a place to stop without fully transitioning.  So my wife got vague answers and I continued to feel horribly confused.  Then one morning I told her I had to transition, and she said she'd already figured that out.  Yes, she had a feeling I was going to have surgery within a couple years, and that we were already at an end point in our permanent relationship (marriage).

That morning discussion began as a very angry and torturous talk, with expressions of fear, and rivers of tears from both of us.  But by the end we both felt the relief of knowing I was going to be the woman I needed to be, and everything about continuing our marriage was in her control.  That was more than a year ago and we're still married, but she hasn't decided if we're staying together.  (we've been separated for months)

You can skip to the end if you're not interested in our current marital state. 

Except for a short two and a half week period in June we haven't lived together for almost six months, and I've been full time here in Michigan for about five months.  I'm picking her up from the airport tomorrow night for her two week vacation with me, and we're both flying back to California in November.   I need to finish some work on our home there, and take care of my medical needs.  But I also have a court date to change my name and gender on both my drivers license and birth certificate.  She knows everything, and she's still unsure about our future, but I have no doubt that in the next two months she'll make up her mind to have me stay or go. 

I wish you all the best in you're life.  And weather you transition or not I hope your wife can support, understand, and maybe even stay with the "person" she married.

Peace - K

For me, it's beaver or bust lol nothing short of SRS will suffice. I can not live as a man ever again now that I live as a woman. Its the only thing I have ever wanted. I sleep with a man everynight, I look and feel like a woman meaning my boobs are always jiggling. I want them to swing lol but a lot of peeps here have wives and kids and I have only had sex with two women and that only worked by pretending they were men. In short I need a vag not for sex (though fringe benneys and all I dp luv that penis) for completeness. I have both severe social and body dyaphoria.

I said I wanted low dose HRT and when the time came started full dose. I said it would be a trial for 3 months and I can not imagine going off HRT. The mental change is significant, for me. Physical change is slow.  Therapy is helping me to grow my identity, perhaps this is synergistic with HRT.

End game, I am concerned about next week, 2 years from now I do not know. I know my desire.

Thanks again for everyone's responses. I will try to cover what has been said in a general post, so forgive me for not mentioning you by name.

I am aware that HRT is far from a cure all. However, since a good deal of my anxiety and stress appears to originate from my dysphoria I am hopeful that it will at least take care of that.

I had been suspicious that my SO was jealous of me. I have a number of feminine features that I have always been complimented on. I was worried I was just being egotistical when I thought she might be showing signs of envy, but I guess we know each other better than that.

I am very torn. My instincts tell me I will probably only find full relief by fully transitioning, SRS being another issue. I am not firmly non op, but I do wish better options were available.

If the question were to be, what can I live with for the forseeable future, it would be part time plus HRT. I have lots of variables to balance, so just running out of the gate won't work for me.

The way I have things planned is simply to live on HRT for a few years and reevaluate things. I imagine I may trip over the barrier I often read about and be gendered female regardless of presentation. What would happen then is hard to know.

If I was given free run of the situation  I would probably be full time before long, but again, so many variables.

Yes, this is tearing me apart from the inside, no it isn't going to just go away, but I also need to see if I can find balance. We are going to talk tonight, and I am on my way to my psychiatrist, so maybe we can find a solution.

Probably the most frustrating thing now is after I talk with her (SO) she appologizes for being thick headed and not giving me more sympathy...

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle on October 23, 2013, 07:56:30 PM

End game, I am concerned about next week, 2 years from now I do not know. I know my desire.

Exactly how I feel. Just wish she would accept that...

We take it one step at a time and are open and honest with each other. Her biggest concern isn't that she can't be with a woman. She's become increasingly supportive over time. But she fears that I won't be attracted to her anymore. I'm not worried about that, but those are her fears and we have to work at it. Although she always thinks my support group is like some sort of secret sex dungeon.

Quote from: TiffanyT on October 23, 2013, 10:56:26 PM
We take it one step at a time and are open and honest with each other. Her biggest concern isn't that she can't be with a woman. She's become increasingly supportive over time. But she fears that I won't be attracted to her anymore. I'm not worried about that, but those are her fears and we have to work at it. Although she always thinks my support group is like some sort of secret sex dungeon.

You might consider proposing to your group a night where each member is accompanied by one guest, ideally either their partner, best friend or closest family member.  Depending on how close-knit y'all are, it might be a cool way to incorporate those who are closest to each of you (as long as everyone is comfortable with the idea).  That way your respective partners/relatives/BFFs can meet the members of your support group, and you'll have the opportunity to demystify the minutiae of your meetings.  Also, you can show off all the leather, whips and trusses

My TG group does allows SO's to attend after an interview process. My wife initially was pretty jealous of me (large variety of reasons) and especially of my group. The group is composed overwhelmingly of TS's most full-time and many post-op. So she imagined a lot of pressure and encouragement towards that direction. Another very big factor was my past history of dating TS's. Fox in the hen house syndrome. Especially when the prettiest member is an engineer, just as I am.

After attending a couple of meetings her attitude changed a lot. She saw just how much "Support" is the one and only reason we were there. Being there, I believe, also helped a lot towards her better understanding just how deep my dysphoria is. That it extends a lot deeper than the occasional cross-dressing aspect she saw over the 30 years we've been together, and the almost daily struggle to project the image of a "Normal" guy to the world.