Quote from: Doctorwho? on October 27, 2013, 01:26:00 AM
Sorry but its not BS at all - most Eunuchs were castrated before puberty.

Most, but not all. It is also done physically and chemically as punitive measure for sex offenders and as an effective treatment for prostate cancer. I'm not saying there aren't some problems associated with the absence of steroids, just that you are overstating the problems, even by saying a very poor state.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on October 27, 2013, 01:26:00 AM
You have to remember that until recent times people only lived for an average of 40 years.

You are also neglecting to mention or understand that the average life span of 40 years is largely skewed by infants not making it past childhood, women not making it through childbirth, and warfare. Healthy people didn't just die when they turned 40, it was not uncommon for people to live to their 60's, 70's, and beyond throughout human history. I wish you luck with your medical degree, but it seems like you just read the current medical textbooks, and didn't pay much attention in your general undergraduate studies and develop critical thinking skills. You should not accept what's in those medical textbooks as the whole truth, just the best treatments currently known, because I guarantee they'll say something completely different 20 years from now.

There is much that is not known about the human body, and the brain is really the part least understood. Part of the reason I am so skeptical of psychologists is also that they are attempting to treat something they don't understand. The basic functions of memory and thought are not really fully understood at all, and if they don't know how the basic functions work how can they treat mental problems? It's like taking a broken down car to someone who has never even opened the hood of car, but drove a few, and asking them to fix it. They know what it's supposed to do, and that it's not doing that now, but not how it works.

If I remember right, prostate cancer is sometimes treated with estrogen which would provide the needed hormone.

It's treated with anti-androgens. Both normal and cancerous prostate cells need testosterone to grow, removing it stops or at least slows the growth of the cancerous cells.

I know someone who is on this treatment, which is why I know so much about it. He doesn't have any bone problems, just takes calcium supplements. It did somewhat change his personality though, which is really my primary reason for not wanting HRT. It's somewhat irrational to want SRS and then want testosterone, just so I look like a girl down there. I don't like my body looking like a guy, but I really like my personality. I don't want it to change.

Knowing one person doesn't mean knowing all. I did say sometimes.

I also understand better now your reluctance for HRT. Not all or even most people change personality by being on HRT. Perhaps look into the odds of that happening and then perhaps give it a trial run. It is reversible for the most part early on.

Quote from: VeronicaLynn on October 27, 2013, 11:40:27 AM
it seems like you just read the current medical textbooks, and didn't pay much attention in your general undergraduate studies and develop critical thinking skills. You should not accept what's in those medical textbooks as the whole truth, just the best treatments currently known, because I guarantee they'll say something completely different 20 years from now.

Maybe - maybe not... I happen to disagree based on both a reasoned argument and some personal experience, because I've been taking HRT for around 35 years.

You do make huge assumptions about me - a person whom you can have no knowledge of. The accusation that I haven't developed my critical skills is a little presumptuous, not to say rude, when in fact I am in my 50's already a double postgraduate already holding multiple degrees both in sciences and humanities in both of which fields I have taught and contributed. Medicine is a career development for me not a starting point.

I've actually thought through my position far more critically than there is scope for expounding in a place like this, and the fact that we have come to different conclusions doesn't necessarily mean that I haven't thought about it. Just that my evaluation and conclusions are different from yours. Yes I was possibly painting things in a slightly overstated simplistic way because I honestly don't believe this is the place for detailed arguments about statistical outcomes and other rather more in depth information, and indeed most people wouldn't have been that interested. The partial citation of texts was actually not intended to prove anything beyond the fact that there is an argument to be had, and therefore applying the black and white term "BS" was a little over the top in my view.

I do percieve you have a rather poor opinion of what doctors do and don't know, maybe with reason, I don't know, although of course I agree that it remains a developing field of knowledge. However ultimately I was just trying to help, but I can see that I'm not achieving that, so we shall agree to disagree and I shall trouble you no more. My sincere apologies that my well meaning original comments have not proved helpful on this occasion.

Quote from: Doctorwho? on October 27, 2013, 04:22:14 PM
Maybe - maybe not... I happen to disagree based on both a reasoned argument and some personal experience, because I've been taking HRT for around 35 years.

You do make huge assumptions about me - a person whom you can have no knowledge of. The accusation that I haven't developed my critical skills is a little presumptuous, not to say rude, when in fact I am in my 50's already a double postgraduate already holding multiple degrees both in sciences and humanities in both of which fields I have taught and contributed. Medicine is a career development for me not a starting point.

I've actually thought through my position far more critically than there is scope for expounding in a place like this, and the fact that we have come to different conclusions doesn't necessarily mean that I haven't thought about it. Just that my evaluation and conclusions are different from yours. Yes I was possibly painting things in a slightly overstated simplistic way because I honestly don't believe this is the place for detailed arguments about statistical outcomes and other rather more in depth information, and indeed most people wouldn't have been that interested. The partial citation of texts was actually not intended to prove anything beyond the fact that there is an argument to be had, and therefore applying the black and white term "BS" was a little over the top in my view.

I do percieve you have a rather poor opinion of what doctors do and don't know, maybe with reason, I don't know, although of course I agree that it remains a developing field of knowledge. However ultimately I was just trying to help, but I can see that I'm not achieving that, so we shall agree to disagree and I shall trouble you no more. My sincere apologies that my well meaning original comments have not proved helpful on this occasion.

I must agree with doctor who.  I do so for two reasons: The endocrine system is very, very  complex and there are control measures everywhere.  The system affects virtually every part of our body, from brain function to metabolism and our senses.  Estrogen and testosterone are two very powerful hormones and both are needed the by the human body regardless of the sex.

I am on Estrogen and spironolactoene.  Parts of my personality are different.  I believe (but cannot prove) that part of the difference is estrogen, part is simply my being the me I was intended to be.  However, a cis-male who had his testicles removed will behave differently than he did previously due to the lack of T.  It's the way the human body works.

There are other changes that occur to a cis-males who have had testicles removed.  The largest body of knowledge is from Chinese history.  Osteoporosis seems to be what everyone fixates on today.  I'd fixate on weight gain. I'd fixate on the number of individuals who developed a variety of psychological problems.  I would also worry about the immune system over time.  We are not looking at a 60 year old cis-female living another 25 years at significantly reduced activity levels.  We are talking about young people who may live another 60 years.  There is a big difference.  Take a little bit of E and a little more T.  It won't be enough to changes things significantly but it would significantly reduce the effects of loss to the T makers.

I am a scientist: I am the endocrine expert for a major US based multinational.  We are learning more about the endocrine system every day. Your body functions at its best with both estrogen and testosterone. Testosterone can be converted to estrogen.  However, I would suggest that you speak with an MD about the possibility of taking a little of each and adding in a little more of the one of your choice.  That might give you a good chance of the smallest personality change. But you really need some.

Quote from: Doctorwho? link=topic=151366.msg1265141#msg1265141 date=1382908934.
You do make huge assumptions about me - a person whom you can have no knowledge of. The accusation that I haven't developed my critical skills is a little presumptuous, not to say rude, when in fact I am in my 50's already a double postgraduate already holding multiple degrees both in sciences and humanities in both of which fields I have taught and contributed. Medicine is a career development for me not a starting point.

My apologies for misreading you as a twenty something student with little life experience. My opinions about doctors also come from knowing pre-med majors, that I wouldn't want to go to even for something simple, or maybe the fact that all doctors were once pre-med majors, and that I don't have a positive view on the intelligence of people in general. You might very well be one of the good ones, and might make a great doctor. Thanks for trying to help me.

I guess I should have figured that most here would have positive views of gender therapy and HRT. It's not for me, at least at this time. I actually was happy when I was younger and just being an androgynous male. I made the mistake of listening to society and taking on a fake macho male persona when it came time for me to get a real job, and it made me miserable and it really didn't work at all with women. While most prefer macho male types, they like fake macho males much, much, less than androgynous males. So what if I come off as a gay guy? That's so far from what I actually am it's funny. I think I can be happy with presenting as an androgynous male/occasional cross dresser. If it turns out I can't, I can always revisit this issue.

Please don't take it lightly, that medical experts advise against having very low T and E levels, and that danger is a separate issue from your 'presentation'.

Sooooo, moving the thread back to therapy...

Quote from: Kaylee on October 26, 2013, 03:30:05 AM
Bingo!  My friends have always been the best and only support I'll ever need.

I'll need to see someone eventually to tick the required boxes for NHS funding of treatment, but I don't see how someone that doesn't know me could help with the few issues I have left since admitting to myself that I was trans. 
They only have what you tell them to try and build a picture of your personality and who you are.  People can quite easily be infallible narrators when it comes to themselves, whereas friends see you and how you are quite frequently get the widescreen version of you instead of the novelisation thats based on an earlier draft of the script...

(This is just me though, I'm quite lucky in the support network I have around me.  Others that aren't so lucky may have more benefits from therapy, and that fits them fine as well)

Kaylee, I think you're absolutely correct.  Friends have seen you in the real world for decades and they know you better than you know yourself.  They are often the best source for honest advice, less emotionally distorted than family members, and lack the self interest of a paid therapist.

That said, the reason I'm looking for a therapist is because I want someone who doesn't know me.  I want someone who is independent and who can act as a "reality check" and see the big picture, someone who I'll essentially be using as a person to make sure I'm not making a stupid mistake.  A safety net.  Sometimes a little distance is a good thing, especially for such a life changing decision.

I'm sorry that there are so many stories here of damage caused by therapists. For people that are supposed  to be helping people it's sad to read these stories of harm done instead.

I found a fantastic therapist on my first try. She is essential in my life right now to help me navigate these waters and to think clearly. Our relationship has gone from me being extremely wary, stiff, and closed off on my first visit to me being open and telling her pretty much anything. A bond of trust has formed.

If you can find a  good one IMO they are worth their weight in gold.