So JoAnn flew into town late Thursday night.  Her visit started a little badly because after the putting her things into the closet and dresser, she began to clean out some of my things and rearrange where I had them stored.  This little rearrangement  was a little disturbing, but she went further the next evening by taking all my cosmetics and sticking them in a drawer where she said I can find them more easily.  She even took the things I use two or three times a day and put them where they couldn't be seen.  JoAnn almost never uses makeup, but then she doesn't need it, and she has said several times I shouldn't wear any either. 

Now that was bad enough, but since she got here she hasn't once called me Kathy, Katherine, her, she or any other feminine variant.  Instead she's been deliberately calling me Joe in stores or any other public place, and will ask me to pull out my credit card to pay for lunches and dinners in locations where I'd prefer to be recognized as the woman I am.  In California she helped me by taking care of some things I couldn't do while I'm here in Michigan, but she obviously didn't want to.  And knowing I'd have to personally pick up packages at the post office, every time she had to mail items she addressed the package to Joe and not Kathy.  And a couple times added in larger print Mr. in front of the name.

The two worst examples
First - At Walmart in Houghton on Saturday we were asking an assistant for help and she turned to me and unnecessarilly called me Joe.  The male store assistant had been very helpful and said ma'am when addressing either or us, but with my old name being used he immediately changed demeanor and began to treat me like a man.

Second - Last night at a restaurant we were being served by a very pleasant young lady who had been wonderfully gracious.  Then my gay cousin called and asked if JoAnn was with me.   Since he hadn't been able to visit yet he wanted to at least say hi to JoAnn, and chat for a while.  But during the conversation my cousin apparently referred to me as Kathy, and JoAnn assumed he was talking about someone else.  After the call she related the conversation and then asked who Kathy was.  I told her it's me, and she fell silent for a few minutes after which we returned to our normal dinner conversation.  But when the check came she told me to pay, and put it on my credit card again.  So when the server picked up the card, ran the check, then handed me the receipt she had an entirely different tone to her voice and stared at me somewhat inquisitively.  I understood her confusion, and gave her a very generous tip. 

It's been this way for three days and I'm starting to fall apart.  I could go on and on about other incidents, and also talk about the related back stabbing from my fundamentalist Christian cousins, but none of that is necessary.  I hope I got the point across with what I've said. 

Just trying to get this out, so sorry for the length and rambling nature of the post.

KATHERINE

I'm sorry that your wife is treating you this way Kathy; i know that it caustic to your soul to be misgendered and to have someone you love deliberately use your old name over and over.

I wish that I knew of something to say/do to help you. I'm sending a big {{HUG}} your way.

Last time I checked there was no magic powder to control other people.............. She can do and say whatever she wants.

I always smile at the sheer number of trans folks that think they can be trans and stay married. They even point out that some marriages carry on. Well some people win the lottery.......... and a huge number loose at playing the lottery.

Perhaps some day trans people will come to realize that the cost of being the person they claim they are is high as well the rewards are high. The one thing nearly all of them cant do is have their cake and eat it.

Katie

Kathy, I think it must be hard on her. You're no longer the person she married, she can't even find him. That guy she thought you were is just gone, like he died. Her whole idea of the future has been altered. I think maybe it's normal for her to want to fight it. I'm not saying it's okay for her to treat you this way, just that she might not be consciously trying to be difficult. Maybe it's the best she can do. Maybe she's also barely holding it together. Can you talk to her about it? Help her lay her feelings out? Or maybe point her to a therapist?

I hope you two can find peace.

love,
-maggie

Thanks girls.  It's just mentally stressing and I'll deal with it.  I'm stronger than collapsing under it, but I wish life were easier.   

JoAnn and I just talked this over for quite a while, but didn't really end up with a solution.  She said she may never be able to call me Kathy, and that my sons definately won't.  At least we're talking. 

I have no family anymore. I gave up on them for some of the reasons you are dealing with. It is the single worse thing I have had to deal with. On the other hand I am me, I did what so few have done, and you know I have absolutely no regrets. I simply carved out a place in society as the person I am today and try my best not to think about the family I lost.

Katie

Once or twice is a mistake, numerous times is just being uncaring, systematically thorough though is rude, offensive and I simply wouldn't take that crap.

Why is she still your wife?

I wouldn't take that crap from anyone. Being married is not a reason.

I'd refuse to use the credit card, it is clear she is slapping you in the face with it. Always calling you other than Kathy in front of people, I'd simply not put myself in those situations. I'd go so far as to go have dinner, enjoy a nice meal excuse myself and just leave her with the bill.

I am not sure what you expect me to say though. I'd have taken all my things, put them back out and tell her to leave them alone, I'd put my clothes back. And I'd tell her she could use a specific space, but to leave the place alone. It sounds like you are married and separated? Is that the case here (you may well have said so elsewhere and I have forgotten, sorry if I have).

She's either doing this for malicious reasons, or she simply thinks if she fights back, she can win the old person back. You might need to make it clear there is no such person to gain back.

Everyone in my life is fully aware how I was born, and is fully aware how I plan to live the remainder of my life. Anyone insisting on forcibly trying to make me into that old illusion would be harshly told to cut it out or else.

Ummm I am sorry but I see behavior that is as hard lined as those people that are against trans people.

I see some of you attacking the wife saying she is wrong, malicious and a number of bad things.

And your all wrong to even say such things. The wife married a man, that is what she knew, she has not re programed her mind to a woman. This is not something that is wrong with her, it is human nature. I should also point out that the married trans person often sends mixed signals to their wives and this just prolongs the issues.

Simply put the wife has every rite to think and do what she wishes. It is not malicious!

The real issue is weather the trans person is going to take the steps to do what they think they need to do. That often means doing it without a wife.

Transition is a process that is very hard, comes with a lot of loss and suffering...... On the other hand there are a lot of rewards when one is finished but that means they have to finish it and that as well means accepting reality and not fighting it.

As I said in another post you cant have your cake and eat it. If you don't make a sincere effort you cant blame anyone but yourself.

Katie

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on October 28, 2013, 11:24:58 AM
....
She's either doing this for malicious reasons, or she simply thinks if she fights back, she can win the old person back. You might need to make it clear there is no such person to gain back.   ...

Oh Lesley.  There's a very good reason she's bitter and mad about my life.  I can't go into it all, so just let me say I started HRT in July 2012 without her knowing and left her in California for two months to do so.  A simple explanation, but essentially correct.

That being said, we've talked every day since I again left California six months ago to work here in Michigan.  And in my absence she's done some very difficult things for me that I never expected from her.   Especially when she took it on herself to submit some misdirected paperwork and pay those fees related to my legal name and gender change.  She didn't like it, but she said it's going to happen anyway.  I know it's contrary to the way she acts, yet I married her because I loved her, and still do.   I think she has tried very hard at times, even though she can't say my name, and she's terribly annoyed by what I own as a woman.  And yes, she admitted to deliberately not using my name, having me pay for the meals, and putting my stuff away because she didn't like where I had them. 

Yeah, call me stupid.  But I would like my marriage to survive, even if it often looks unlikely.

Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
......  If you don't make a sincere effort you cant blame anyone but yourself.  .....

I have no idea where we end up in life, but at some point I may well have to end the marriage if JoAnn doesn't get past this stage of loss and anger, or end it first.  It makes everything I do twice as difficult, and I told her today I'm not going to let her decisions stall my transition the way I allowed last November.

I'm sometimes confused by my own decisions.  I don't need more confusion to make it worse.

Ahhh well if you have taken some decision unilaterally, it does take some of the blame off of her shoulders.

I have done some outright stupid things in my life, but, I do them with her knowing so. Sadly, my wife has made equally stupid choices in reaction, and in the process, I have a stupid choice given incorrect affirmation in the process.

It's like telling a lie, the longer you leave it, the worse the mess you get to clean up.

I have also told the truth in some cases and seemingly stupidly, but, at least it preserves my capacity to state, I always tell the truth, and thus, can not be readily accused of having lied. And some days I sure wish I wouldn't offer quite as much information so willingly

I can't picture my wife having sex with me once the parts shrink up and turn off for all intents and purposes, and once I have the parts I call correct, I sure can't see the wife wanting to play with them as she might not mind me doing with hers. I don't expect my wife to ever be into lesbian sex.

But I also have had my fill of my parts being so annoyingly male. I'd love to live the last of my life, with no urge. No need, no drive no every present contradiction. I want to look down and see ME, and not something that claims I am wrong. And I'd be ok, if it was just something I used to pee with

I can't see the future, but, I sure know what alone feels like. I can't see it feeling any different for my wife. I love her in so many ways. And when she and the son were gone all Thursday and some of Monday this weekend for a Starcraft tournament the son was cool to going to, I went through total hell sitting here alone. I knew she was coming back, and yet, it felt damned real. I couldn't function most of Friday at all. I was glad the weather was horrible, because a sunny day would have only mocked me. I just wanted to sleep the whole weekend and hope it went by fast.

I need my wife as a companion. Because life isn't JUST about sex. It's like chocolate. I simply love the stuff, but, really, a few pieces and I can go the rest of the day and not care about getting more of it. Life is not all about chocolate (can't believe I actually said that in public ).

I hope your wife and you weather this difficult time.

If you're out and willing to be open about it, you could explain to the people confused by her that you're transgender and that JoAnne can't understand that your name is now Kathy and prefer to be female. The person you choose to do this with could be chosen to likely avoid a scene, too.

I don't know if I could say it myself... certainly not as I am now, but something like that might fix the problem with your wife or at least make her think about it.

I can understand how hard this for both of you from experience & hindsight, I was with my ex for 8yrs without her knowing I was trans, in fact for about 6 of those years I thought I had the trans-beast tamed & locked away in a cage, hidden not just from the whole world but hidden from myself as well.

I chose a bad/cowardly way to end the relationship & reveal the true me & this caused bad feelings.

Even without the bad feelings we both had to deal with her going through the 5 stages of grief & this is probably what you are now facing with JoAnn. It's easy to forget that those close to us often have to go through the 5 stages as they are losing the person they've known for years & to many people this manifests itself the same as dealing with a death in the family.
Only once she's gone through these stages either in part or in full will either of you know if the relationship can survive you coming out.

With my ex I was hoping we could remain friends & that definately didn't happen, she twisted the knife one time too many, she used her intimate knowledge of me to strike at me in an act of revenge that means I never want to see her agian for as long as I live.
Once my mother had gone through the 5 stages of grief however we were able to rebuild our relationship so it's becoming stronger than ever, i've spoken to plenty of people who have had this level of success with lifelong partners but it always takes time.

I wish you all the best & should you need support whilst travelling down this bumpy road then there will always be people here willing to help & listen.

Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 10:08:21 AM
I have no family anymore. I gave up on them for some of the reasons you are dealing with. It is the single worse thing I have had to deal with. On the other hand I am me, I did what so few have done, and you know I have absolutely no regrets. I simply carved out a place in society as the person I am today and try my best not to think about the family I lost.

Katie

Sorry you or anyone has to go through this. I lost my family for other reasons well before my re-assignment process. Friends I have told have been in one or two camps - supportive yet not understanding of the process, or completely walked away. At the end of the day, I have friends who are far closer than family ever was - which makes it their loss, not mine.

Don't sweat your family, your friends are worth 100 of them

XO
Kelsie (PS: you a derby girl?)

Quote from: kathyk on October 28, 2013, 09:53:35 AM
Thanks girls.  It's just mentally stressing and I'll deal with it.  I'm stronger than collapsing under it, but I wish life were easier.   

JoAnn and I just talked this over for quite a while, but didn't really end up with a solution.  She said she may never be able to call me Kathy, and that my sons definately won't.  At least we're talking.

***HUGS***

Talking is a good start, Kathy. Don't be surprised if your paths widen as time goes on though. I'm not married myself anymore, just heavily dating, and it would break my heart if she left me because she wanted a 'real man' sometime down the line (we've been together 3+ yrs), but at the end of the day, my path may not be her path, and I would have to love her enough to let her do what's best for her, and time DOES heal all wounds.

XO
Kelsie

Thank you to all.  I'm glad there are still a few of us married women on Susan's.  And I read every reply. 

Anyway, I'm closing this subject for now.  My doctor sent an email saying I should stop taking Progesterone to see if it was causing a pretty big problem I've had the last few days.  And since JoAnn is an RN she's been wonderfully helpful to me this afternoon.  She even pitched in with the concrete work on part of a porch foundation.   

And so with that ... Thank you again, and peace to you all.

I'm married to two Italian Greyhounds, which means there are three bitches in the house.  I was once a wife, many moons ago.

Quote from: kathyk on October 28, 2013, 09:53:35 AM
JoAnn and I just talked this over for quite a while, but didn't really end up with a solution.  She said she may never be able to call me Kathy, and that my sons definately won't.  At least we're talking.

Referring to me as Joanne is difficult for my wife when it is just her and I together. While she is supportative she has said on a few occassions that "I don't want to be an active participant in my own demise". Fair enough.... I did sort of kick over the marriage table and changed the rules some. She came up with a compromise solution, Curly which is how my hair is done up. 

I suspect your wife also does not want to be an active participant... either. To the point of passive aggressivness. Perhaps some active aggression by poisoning the well with your sons.

My heart goes out to you.

My wife's demands were simple. She insisted that I remain him, that I not even consider SRS, that FFS was verboten, that hormones were not allowed, but that I could cross dress on weekends if she wasn't in the house. Since she almost never goes anywhere you see what she was saying?

I told her that was unacceptable and that I was going to transition. She said she might never be able to use my new name. I said that once I do the legal name change I won't answer to my old name and that I will change all my accounts to reflect my new name and that if she can't use my proper name then she better not go out with me.

Not so long ago she commented that estrogen has given me more backbone in a year than decades of testosterone apparently ever did. I've never done anything other than treat her with respect, even when I knew she was having affairs. I reminded her of this and told her she will either treat me with respect or not interact with me and that choice is hers. She has decided that ultimately we will divorce and claims we will "remain friends" but I am realistically not expecting that to actually occur. Instead I expect to be distant acquaintances who only interact when we end up interacting with our children or grandchildren. But again, I won't do that. If she wants to close that door, that's her choice.


If you have done your legal name change, then if I were you, I'd be changing all my accounts.

Hi Kathy I know exactly what your going through my x wife calls me a freak, an ugly woman and tells our children that I won't be their dad anymore even though we can't control other ppls reactions we can always hope for some form of understanding and acceptance. But even if others can't do that there is really no reason to be rude to us or make our lives harder than they are already, I wish you all the best in your life and never give up hope for change in the world.

Love Emily T xx