Hey all,

I am trying to find out whether my co-workers know about me and would like to get some opinions.  Let me say, I like my job and the people I work with, but I wanted to get some feedback on the situation.  To be honest, I don't really care too much about whether or not it's out; however, I'd like to know if they know.  Even though I really just want to come out and it would probably make me feel more relaxed with people on a social level, I want to do it at the right time.  I'm still new there and don't know how permanent things will be.  I don't want to jeopardize anything nor do I want people to have preconceived notions before they get used to me.  Plus, I'm still so early in my transition and have to make more adjustments to my appearance before I feel comfortable with coming out to the world.  It's a bit complex, so forgive me for writing so much.

Okay, I got the job because one of my best friends used to work at this place. He's very supportive of my transition and has been aware of my identify for years.  It's crossed my mind that he may have talked about his trans friend at some point, but who knows.  In any event, he told me no one to his knowledge is aware of what's going on other than the office manager.  Now, I'm fine with her knowing because she's an awesome person and has done a lot to help me.  I'm really not worried about her in any way (well other than disappointing her with my work, lol), but I wonder whether it is really a secret to everyone else at the office.  The thing is his mother works at the office as well.  She is very sweet women who I really like and feel comfortable with, but I imagine she must also know.  My friend never told me whether this was the case or not; however, it would be very unlikely for it to be a secret from his mother.  So, there are at least two people who are aware of my situation that work with me.  Again, I'm not worried about any one being anti-trans or against me.  I don't think anyone there is like that and everyone seems really cool and supportive.  Having said that, I have my doubts about whether it can or has remained a secret when it's already out to so many people.  It just seems that the odds line up that way.

As for signs that people know... well,there have been a few.  First of all, my friend is getting married and he threw a wedding shower for his bride to be.  Since he has known everyone at work for so long, many of them were invited and came to the shower.  Besides me the only guys that were at the event were family members (2 to be precise) and my friend himself.  I'm sure that must have been noticed by my co-workers to some degree.  And even then, no one was surprised that I attended the shower at all.  Perhaps I'm over thinking it, but I'm sure people noticed that.  Besides the shower, there have been a few interactions with my co-workers that make me wonder if it's a secret.  For example today someone suggested I "crossdress" for Halloween which I laughed off and went right back into my work.   Now it's possible they were all kidding and it just hit home, but it's just too convenient.   They're all good people and I know that their heart's are in the right place regardless of whether they know or not; yet, I can't help but see that as a sign that people are aware.  I mean, I'm not your typical "guy" in anyway, so people must at least think I'm gay.  Maybe that's why that joke came out? Still, it felt like they were trying to get me to open up and be honest about what's going on.  Like they were giving me some room to let it out.  And that's not the only time where that has happened. When I was talking about family issues between my mother and I, one of my co-workers joking asked if my family is composed of "man hating feminists".  She was joking around and trying to lighten up the mood, but I got the sense that she was playing dumb to get me to come out.  She was trying really hard to just get me to come out and be honest about what's going on.  I'm okay with that because she really is a nice person and fun to work with, but I just can't find the strength in myself to say something regardless of the fact that she probably would be really sweet about it.   

Now, if these were the only signs I would leave it at that and stop guessing, but there is more to it.  There have been a few occasions where people will walk out and say goodbye to all the "ladies" and remember to include the gentleman only after 5 seconds of reflection and thought.  It's happened at least 3 times with different people.  While it's possible that they just forget that there is also a "guy", it makes me wonder if there is something Freudian behind it.   Besides that, there is my appearance and mannerisms. Let me say, I do my best to dress and act as a straight male employee (lol), but I don't think it works.  While I am a fairly shy person in general, I really get shy at work because I'm afraid I'll give off vibes.  For the most part, I avoid being feminine and try to act like any other "male employee".  However, I feel like I always have these tells and people can see them no matter how hard I try to hide.  And people do treat me differently than they would with other "guys".  Again, I have no issue with that, but it just feels like people know something about me.  As for my appearance, I dress in male office clothes, but I have non masculine qualities that are noticeable.  I have long hair which I straighten everyday and I'm growing breasts to the point that people are starting to notice.  I have even noticed slight confused stares from some people.  The hormones are beginning to kick in, so I don't know if people can guess or just think I'm some weird gay guy or something.  While I have to make more improvements to my appearance, I have made some good progress and people are noticing.  I just don't know to what degree or what they think about it.  Well, I'll be starting laser very soon, so maybe that will give me my answer, lol.

In any event, I would appreciate any opinions on my situation and whether I am as deep in the closet as I think.  Again, it's okay for people to know and I'm excited by the notion of not having to hide, but I want others to be aware when it's the right time.  Like I said, I really like the people I work with and think they are very sweet, but I just feel like it's premature.   I'm still very very nervous about this and coming out isn't easy for me.  It's weird because it would be a huge weight off my shoulders to be out and stop hiding with more and more people, but I feel like I need more physical and emotional progress to happen before that time.  So, I'm reluctantly in the closet, yet also afraid to come out.  And sometimes I worry whether there if I even have the option of choosing when to come out because it feels like people can guess.  Okay, enough of my rambling, lol.  I guess I just wanted to get some things out. Thank you for taking the time to read all of this and for offering any opinions or advice you may have.

Most likely it's just your mind playing tricks on you.
I find that I get that a lot and just read into it more than I ever did before. I often wonder if my coworkers notice the difference but really since I have not said anything they do not. I have lost weight, have softer smoother skin, started growing boobs, and I have been growing my hair out. So far so good and the biggest changes that they noticed were that my pants don't fit anymore and that I shaved my beard off.

The trick is that people only notice you when you don't blend in. Every day at work you show up and you start your job, the work flow if you follow that, and everyone else does the same. Here in the states we laughably nickname that the "grind". During that work flow people tend to start with the greetings and small talk and then get to work with their minds set on staying busy, completing tasks, lunch, and getting home. Noticing subtle changes in appearance at work, especially only people that outwardly express as guys, is generally not done. So more than anyone you are safe for now. Just be prepared for the flip side when you do pass as female and then you start getting sized up by other women and guys start to look at your body instead of your face when they talk to you. So don't break the script of the work flow and no one will notice the subtle changes unless you not so subtly drop hints.

The trouble is, the harder you think something is to hide, the more hyper-aware you become of things which might indicate people have found out what you want to keep a secret.

It's sometimes a case of "I can see it, surely they can, too."

And on that basis, the mind sometimes forms links between things that, at any other time, wouldn't be given a second thought... but because they relate to something you want to keep to yourself, it makes you question their intent.

Having said that, however, that doesn't mean there isn't anything to what you're saying. A lot of what people pick up on with others has nothing to do with the way someone looks, or even what they say. It's about the "vibe" you give off, the overall way you express yourself. And often, we don't have a whole lot of control over that. Unless you closely pay attention to every little mannerism, body movement, speech inflection, point of view, and a myriad of other things, then the real you will leak out no matter how hard you try to hide it.

I used to be the only "guy" in an office full of women. For a few years. And several times during that, I overheard conversations from friends of my co-workers, when they came into the office, that went along the lines of:

"Doesn't it feel awkward that he's working here?"

"No, why should it?"

"Well, because... y'know, he's a guy. Don't you have to watch what you talk about?"

"No?"

Then a pause.

"Huh. We just treat him like one of us. He doesn't seem to mind. And, to be honest, neither do we. He fits in here for some reason."

"You mean acts like a woman?"

"Well... no. Not really. I mean yeah in some ways I guess. He just doesn't feel like a bloke. So it's all good."

"Oh. Okay."

I guess what I'm getting at is that people sometimes pick up more than we give them credit for, and that's regardless of how well we try to hide.

Very true Sephirah. I suppose it's really about interpretation. Like with those optical illusion pictures. For the most part everyone can see the picture but the speed at which we process the trick is different for each person. A function of brain that analyzes your vision and filters it before parsing that over to conscious thought. So there may be hints that we accidentally drop but they can be interpreted in unexpected ways.

Food for thought thank you.

As to those optical illusion pics. I rarely can find whatever is supposedly hidden in them. Not sure what that means but apparently it means something.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I found out later that the guys at the stevedore company I worked at had figured out that I was trans, but they didn't really say anything about it or treat me any differently. So long as you do your job and are a decent person, they likely won't say or do anything to cause you problems as it could also make them look bad. Just try not to think about it and just go about your business.


And oddly enough, I occasionally wonder if some of the people I work with know I'm trans, but I've decided that if they do, they don't show it and therefore it doesn't matter.

Most people are less observant than we give them credit for plus I don't think trans is the first place somebody's mind jumps to when a guy is a little feminine acting.  I would guess, and it is just a guess, that if nobody has said anything overtly, they don't know.

LTL, in my experience, some people do notice changes. And that's where trouble begins....

I work for a largish organisation. Some colleagues I see daily, some less often. After some months of changes ( HRT, hair, weight etc ), there were rumours floating around about what may be going on with me... I won't go into details about the suspicions, but while they didn't know, rumours can be a problem. People don't like not-knowing...

For that reason, I decided to come out to everyone at my work place some months ago. And such a good choice that turned out to be. Now there's no rumours because everyone knows what's happening. And while it did take a short time for some people to absorb the information on me, professional relationships have all returned to 'normal'. It's really quite good. There's not been a trace of phobia or disrespect... .

Yeah, I don't think most people assume someone is trans nor do I think I must be giving off that vibe.  Believe me, I am purposefully quiet and shy because I'm afraid of being detected.  I'm good at hiding in the closet, lol.  So, I don't think it should be obvious or that people must know about my due to my appearance or actions.  It's the fact that some people do know for a fact and the confusing interactions I've had with some co-workers that makes me wonder.  When you put everything together, it becomes very possible that people have talked about me or have figured it out.  I wouldn't guess if there weren't any other signs, but there are.  In any case, I really do like my job and the people I work with.  To be honest, I don't really care if they do know, but I feel awkward about coming out prematurely.  Nonetheless, it's a very nice and supportive environment, so I bet it will be fine when it comes time to open up and be honest with everyone.  It would make me feel much more comfortable interacting with everyone and allow me to stop worrying about being caught; therefore, I'm okay about letting it out sometime in the future.  Let's just hope I get to be there long enough for that to happen, lol. 

You know, it's really funny.   There was a time when I thought I'd be able to hide in the closet my entire life.   Part of me feared that I would never be able to successfully go down this path and actually accomplish in being true to myself.  Even though I've always wanted to transition, I always feared I'd never make it work and that it would be best to bottle my feelings up.  While I am still shy about it and have a long way to go, it's shocking how much progress I have made.  In the past, I would die if someone had discovered my secret.  However, today I'm okay with others discovering it.  Sure, I'm scared about that and have concerns, but I'm getting better about it.  I'm actually at the point where hiding forever is definitely not possible.  I have to be true to myself regardless of how other people feel or perceive me.  It's getting almost unbearable to keep up the male persona and presentation; even if I'm scared about presenting as the real me and facing societal scorn, it's unavoidable and something that I am slowly beginning to embrace.  I'm me and that's okay.  While my mother begs for me to repress it, I'm understanding more and more just how impossible that is for me.  Now, I just need to get the courage to step forward and actually start being true to myself and open about who I am. 

Sorry for my rambling.  I hide so much in my daily life that it's so refreshing just to get it off my chest and discuss my transition with people that are supportive about it.  It's one of the few places I'm able to present female without fear.  So forgive my long winded nature.  You guys are awesome and part of why I have been making progress in life.  Thank you for that. 

Honestly I some times wonder if my Family members know, or at the very least assume... its hard to think, they haven't over heard me practicing my voice yet..

So maybe we are just being paranoid?

I spent years convinced that people in my life had things completely figured out. I was completely, completely wrong. 

In any case, I am glad you work in a place where you feel safe and think that most of your colleagues would be supportive. That is a big deal and you should be thankful for it!

I'm hiding in plain sight, no one has said anything so far.
I had to go into work today for a few hours to handover work to a girl returning from 6 month off so she might have seen some differences.
She noticed I looked younger.

Do I care anymore?
No.
You would be amazed just how many people are self absorbed and often miss the obvious.

After knowing how E makes me feel, I only look forward to what lies ahead.
I know I will get to a male fail point but who cares.
I am so much happier and feel relaxed now.

J

Am loving the male fail point... 

Next week I'll see some colleagues I've not seen in a quite a while  ( 6 months + ). They're not really accustomed to me having boobs, or looking like I do. The looks will funny... for the first 10 minutes until I address the group and explain what's happening anyway.

I really think you are over-thinking this. Every one of those "clues" could have had other meanings. And no one seems to be freaking about it if they do know.

If I were you, I would simply let it go and enjoy the work if you are happy there and accepted. It's more than some of our sisters and brothers have!

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

I still have no idea whether people know, but my suspicions keep getting fed.  Honestly, as hard as I've been trying to hide my transition from everyone, I think people are on to me.  In general, I have been noticing stares from strangers as well as smiles from some that say they are on to me.  And guys have been especially watchful of my behavior lately.  But no one has been mean to me and all I have seen is acceptance (except from family).  At work they have started to use the unisex version of my name; something which they didn't do until recently.  And people still say goodbye ladies or girls only to catch themselves quickly.   Again, I'm not out, so I wonder how much is known.  There are even more signs that they are aware, but they are ambiguous and I'd rather not give out too much info that can out me. I think they are trying to let me know that they know without making me feel awkward.  Then again, it's hard to say.  In any case, I think it will be okay with them which is a big relief.  As for the rest of society, who knows.  Most women have been nice to me, but that may be because they view me as a "gay guy".  And guys are a mixed bag.  Some try to act super macho around me and others are okay.  I've even notice some guys checking me out here and there, which is certainly appreciated even if it's a bit creepy.  I hope that only continues because I'm only interested in dating men and it'd be nice to know if there at least some interest, lol.   In any case, I'm still in the in between stages, so it's hard for me to believe people don't notice something is happening at this point, but I wouldn't say I'm at the male fail mode point.   Therefore, I'm constantly on alert and feeling anxious because its hard to be at that in between stage.  To be honest, I have no idea how people will react once I reach the point of no return.  While I'm excited about it, I'm very scared about backlash and rejection.  My family has shown me how bad rejection can get and it makes me afraid to come out to other people.

In any event, I know it sounds like I should just give up the boy mode, but it's just hard to come out.  Sure, it would probably be so much easier to just let it out and move forward; after all, I'm so sick of hiding from everyone in my life and guessing who knows what.  However, I just don't feel ready to take that step emotionally or physically (appearance wise).  I want my transition to go very smoothly and would like to avoid as many bumps as possible.  And my life is a bit chaotic right now with my family and my finances that I have to be careful about not pushing things too far too soon. Yet at the same time,  words can't even describe how difficult it is for me to keep presenting and acting as a guy.   I just wish I could live like any other girl, not having to constantly worry if what I say or do is a sign or weird for a "guy".   What I'm trying to say is that I just want to be me without any fear.   But l just don't know how to do that.  It's all so hard.   Instead of going out and doing something fun or trying to meet new exciting people, I shut myself in because I'm scared about rejection and feel like I have to hide around everyone.  It's like wearing a terrible mask everyday that you hate.  And worst of all, I sense that people are aware that it's a terrible mask and that makes me even more scared. Yet, I can't just get rid of it.  It's annoying and frustrating.  I can't wait for the day when I can live as me without fear and hiding. 

Sorry for another long post.  I just need to get these thoughts out to someone because all this hiding is killing me.  Besides my therapist, I have very few people in my life that I can confide in when it comes to my transition as most who are aware are very much against it.  And who wants to annoy their irl friends with this stuff anyway.  I can irk all of you instead with my long winded rambling, lol.   

A few key and close people at work know about my transition, but I've decided not to fully out myself until I'm ready to go full time. My experience with my first transition is that it just confuses people when you say you feel like one gender but present as the other, do they treat you different or do they treat you the same and when is everything going to change?

We aren't a very gossipy workplace (despite being mostly women) but I know that people care about each other and they do notice things and will talk about things they notice to be different. I've told the people who know that if anyone says or asks something about me then, rather denying anything, those in the know should tell them to have a chat with me. It's not my intention to hide it but to talk to those who notice and hopefully take them into my confidence.

The three people who know are trusted, central people in the organisation... if anyone was going to say something it would be to them. I'm over four months on HRT and I feel the changes are screamingly obvious, my hairless arms, my regrowing head hair, my boobs, my demeanour, etc... but as far as I know no one has noticed or said anything. So a lot of the obviousness is just in my head and, as others have said, most people are too busy with their own lives to notice teensy gradual changes.

But a woman from work has been away for two months and is returning this week... maybe she'll be the first to notice?

This is a pretty weird topic for me. I worked for a grocery store for 20 years until I got laid off not too long ago. I grew up down the street. Everybody knew everybody because we all went to the same grade school. One day I don't remember why I got totally dressed up and went to the store to shop. I was seen by a lot of people I knew. A few months later I applied for a job there and ended up working there for 20 years. I just started my HRT 4 days ago. For 20 years I all ways I all ways felt the rumors were following me around from store to store.(it was a big grocery chain). I'd always run into somebody who worked for the chain that was from the neighborhood at the store that I was presently working at. That thought was always in my mind that people even the managers were aware of me being at least a cross dresser. Co-workers and occasionally managers would say things to me that made me think they had heard the story. Nobody ever blatantly asked me about it. I don't Know how I would of reacted if they did. The thing is that I made it 20 years. I''ve found in my life that most people are incredibly nice. I wouldn't worry about it your going to have to come out any way.

I think it's unlikely they know specifically due to the examples you gave; those examples seem like pretty normal behavior to me. Especially the "good bye, ladies" one where the person catches themselves afterwards -- this is a pretty common thing people do when women are the grand majority, but not the only presence (or so they think!) somewhere.

However, that isn't to say your co-workers suspect nothing. I got a job back in June and several of my co-workers started asking my only friend there questions about me. They pointed out that I was rather effeminate and wanted to know if I was gay. Customers who know my co-workers often ask about me, which I of course hear about later on. Several customers (usually women) readily think I'm gay, or mention things about my mannerisms and appearance. One or two of my co-workers were informed through the grapevine after I told a few who had been asking.

The same thing could be happening to you. While I still present male at work, all of my co-workers are now aware and they make an effort not to treat me like a guy or to use terms like "mister" or "sir." They're very supportive. It's a huge relief. I think suspicions about you could be based on your behavior or appearance, but if people do know because of gossip, I think it's unlikely they would make adjustments or treat you differently until you bring it up to them.

Quote from: Sybil on November 09, 2013, 11:09:24 PM
I think it's unlikely they know specifically due to the examples you gave; those examples seem like pretty normal behavior to me. Especially the "good bye, ladies" one where the person catches themselves afterwards -- this is a pretty common thing people do when women are the grand majority, but not the only presence (or so they think!) somewhere.

However, that isn't to say your co-workers suspect nothing. I got a job back in June and several of my co-workers started asking my only friend there questions about me. They pointed out that I was rather effeminate and wanted to know if I was gay. Customers who know my co-workers often ask about me, which I of course hear about later on. Several customers (usually women) readily think I'm gay, or mention things about my mannerisms and appearance. One or two of my co-workers were informed through the grapevine after I told a few who had been asking.

The same thing could be happening to you. While I still present male at work, all of my co-workers are now aware and they make an effort not to treat me like a guy or to use terms like "mister" or "sir." They're very supportive. It's a huge relief. I think suspicions about you could be based on your behavior or appearance, but if people do know because of gossip, I think it's unlikely they would make adjustments or treat you differently until you bring it up to them.

I may not be explaining it well, but it is very different from most situations.  There are people who know for a fact about my transition and one of my best friends who has been incredibly supportive about my transition used to work there.  In fact, he left early on some occasions so he could accompany me to a trans support group.  When you throw in the prior knowledge that others have about me and some of the things my friend has told people, some of the incidents become noticeable.  If someone said goodbye girls to a room of 20 people, I'd get it.  But when it's only directed at you and one other female co-worker, it rings some bells.  When this happens multiple times, it's especially alarming. 

Having said all that, I can get paranoid and over think things to a degree.  I'm just very afraid of being detected and then rejected.  At the moment, everyone there is very sweet towards me and they seem to have no issue with me.  And it's nice to know they are accepting of me because it makes me feel like they are okay with me being trans (that is if they do know).  However, I don't know if that will last once I come out.  It's hard to explain other than saying I want to know what everyone knows.  On the one hand, it's hard to keep playing the guessing game when you are trying hard to hide and keep things secret.  It's almost a little frightening to know that you are being detected despite trying hard not to be because you aren't emotionally ready for those hard talks and don't feel ready to present female without more time on hormones.  On the otherhand, it would be nice for it to be out there so I wouldn't have to keep hiding and keeping it a secret because it drives me insane to be something I'm not. 

And this isn't just about work.  It's about society in general.  I suppose it's just hard to come out of the closet and also difficult to stay in it.  It's a weird emotional limbo.  While I know this is what I want and who I am, I'm so terrified to move forward and face rejection.   What will people say?  Will they hate me?  Will they reject me?  Will I be the object of ridicule? I know my mom has been on my case much more than she ever has been.  She keeps pleading for me to repress my feelings and stop going down a sinful path.  Then she tells me how everyone is going to hate me and that I will be beaten up or killed from my choices.  Worst of all, she says that I'm putting the lives of our family at risk.  I realize she wants to control me and prevent me from doing something she doesn't like, but her emotional blackmail and constant nagging only make things much harder for me to move forward.  It's like she knows how to play with my fears and screw with me, so I have to struggle every inch to move forward and better myself.   And the other day, I recieved a letter from my mom with something very nasty written about me because I dared to mention that she had a gay friend at the dinner table.  It's getting ridiculous.  I guess I'm afraid that society will be like my mother.  To be fair, she is an amazing mother in many ways and there is much more to the story.  Her grief and pain isn't irrelevant and sometimes it can make people act in strange ways.  It's just hard for all of us and I'm understanding of that.  We will work through it because we love each other.  But the point is that her behavior and criticisms make me fear how others will take to me.  I was never really the darling of society and now things can be even more challenging.  If my own family is so unaccepting, what about others?  I guess I need to stop letting fear of other people and rejection control me and start living for myself, but it's hard and I'm really afraid.  In any case, I'm improving physically and very excited by that.  In time, I will have no choice but to face the challenge and that's ony going to be good for me even if I'm scared.   

Anyway, more verbal ranting.  Thanks for reading, if you could make it all the way through, lol. It's nice to get my feelings out there.  Thanks all.