Why in this all inclusive, all accepting, oh so perfect trans community, do people find it so easy to be offended? Why is it impossible to explain yourself to someone of your own kind when they don't understand your ridiculous identity of cupcake with the pronouns delicious and fluffy? Why when I express my inability to grasp your mentality for this the conversation can't continue? Is this how some of us function in the outside world, by walking away? Wow, great way to fight for your cause lol that's totally pushing equality and acceptance. Good job, much success.

Are so many people that emotionally unstable and sensitive that they can't realize that if you want people to understand you have to EXPLAIN YOURSELF? I've always hated this community and it's insane need to accept every identity under the sun no matter how awkward while making up terms like cis/truscum for people who just want to live normal lives and are trying to understand the other terms that understandably sound nuts to them. I'll probably get banned/downvoted/have this thread locked/kicked off of the website etc. because apparently if you speak your mind and don't word things to include the feelings of genders you've never even heard of youre a terrible person.

People will never understand you when you push your own kind away.

I don't have a duty to explain myself in order to be treated with respect. Respect is a basic principle that should be offered to all people as long as it is returned. If I offer respect for you and your identity, you similarly need to offer respect for me and my identity, regardless of whether you understand or not. If you start from the position of "you are ridiculous, now I demand that you explain yourself so I can tell you that you are wrong," what possible incentive do I have to either explain myself, or to offer you respect in turn? You breached basic rules of etiquette. That's why you got down voted. Not because you don't understand.

I'm one of those ridiculous cupcakes (damn I love that expression, I think I'll steal it). I don't really have much in the way of a gender identity. Gender divisions don't really make much sense to me, and I struggle to believe that they are actual things. However, other people assert that gender is real and feel extremely strongly about it, so I respect them enough to take their word that it's a thing, and I just don't have it.

I live in a binary world where everyone is classified by gender, and that is super uncomfortable and depressing for me. My skin crawls every time I get called ma'am or lady or sir. I've learned to ignore it as best I can because that's all I can do. I dress low-key, in the most gender-neutral clothing available as a way of making myself feel a little easier in my skin. I deal with she pronouns, because I live as a female in this society, and we just aren't at a stage where I can get people to call me "they" and not feel like a fool. So it goes.

Oh... I was also assigned male at birth and transitioned: HRT, electrolysis, laser hair removal, forehead contouring, tracheal shave, rhinoplasty, and vaginoplasty. I'm among the more heavily modified humans on this forum. My dysphoria was intense enough that I downed a bottle of codeine pills when I was 17 in the hopes of not waking up, that I spent 9 years turning my forearms into a mass of scars.

You don't know anything about me. Don't make assumptions. Don't disrespect. And maybe you WILL learn something about the non-binaries in this community. Dude, I'm happy to learn about you and your story. To support you in your transition, to offer you respect. Why is it so hard to return the favour?

Quote from: ttim0324 on November 14, 2013, 04:04:05 PM
I've always hated this community and it's insane need to accept every identity under the sun no matter how awkward while making up terms like cis/truscum for people who just want to live normal lives and are trying to understand the other terms that understandably sound nuts to them.

Hi There! 

I think your frustrations are common; perhaps not here on Susans but almost certainly with the majority of people. However, I think it may be that you're misunderstanding the ways people choose to express themselves and they may misunderstand your motivations for questioning them. While you may just be genuinely confused, people will be less inclined to explain themselves if they sense negativity or that you "hate" what you perceive to be characteristics of the trans community. Frankly, people experience enough of that outside of Susans so I understand them not tolerating it from anyone here.

Still, it can be difficult to learn about others when you are in constant fear of offending them. That's actually why I find the terms some others choose to use incredibly helpful. For instance, someone may feel less "sensitive" about engaging in a conversation with you if they know you aren't judging, misgendering or generally disrespecting them. Use of another's chosen terms is a way of conveying you do respect them you just don't understand where they are coming from.

Oh and trans people are just trying to live normal lives, just like everyone else. I hope that your journey towards understanding that is a good one! 

Tell me, what's the problem with anyone calling themself anything so long as they are not hurting anyone else? Why is it awkward? Because you haven't experienced it yourself? Do you think everything you haven't personally experienced is awkward? Are you afraid it will indoctrinate the children to be like that? Remember, nobody is trying to force others to be like them, we're simply trying to get by in life with the same dignity and respect we give others.

If someone has never heard of a particular concept most of us (at least here) I think would be totally fine trying to explain it to you, so long as you are open to trying to understand it. However, based on the language and tone of your post it doesn't sound like you're open to understanding. That's where the problem lies, not with the fact that you don't understand, but rather the fact that you don't seem to want to understand.

Please, ask us any questions you want so you can better understand whatever it is you're struggling with.

You can speak your mind, just respect others. There's times, both online and IRL, where its justbest to not say anything if you can't manage to come across with respect. Like, you can't expect to walk into a comic book convention and expect it to be okay to mock everyone there calling them nerds and ridiculous. Just because you're trans didn't give you a free ride coming onto a website for trans, non-binary, etc. people when you blatantly disrespect certain members.

I don't understand why you think its okay to call non-binaries "ridiculous" and mock them. Sure, I don't know all the gender-neutral pronouns. I don't even know how to pronounce "ze" and "zir" since there's no accent marks to indicate how the vowels go. But that's no reason to be closed minded. If theres people you don't understand, do some reading or ask someone.

I gave you a thumbs down because you sounded both disrespectful and hypocritical. Many "normal" people don't understand transsexuals and think transsexuals are "ridiculous" freaks. To many "normal" cis people, you're just as much of a freak as you suggest non-binaries are.

edit to add: Also, I wasn't offended. You're not worth getting offended over. I gave you a thumbs down for being a jerk, not because my precious feelings were hurt.

I hope everyone has pressed the report buton.

Quote from: Orange Creamsicle on November 14, 2013, 04:26:30 PM
If someone came to you about being transsexual and said, "you were born in a female body, but want to be a man?  How ridiculous!  I think it'd be cool to be a cat, maybe I'm transspecies", does that make you want to explain or just walk away from someone who has no respect for you?

I think you're a little bit hung up on the word 'ridiculous' but I digress. I could have used a much more offensive word. The object wasn't even to be offensive, thats how I see it, and if no one does anything to explain why it isn't how can you expect me to change that view?
I can't imagine a single situation where someone who didn't understand what a transsexual is would start correlating species and gender to come up with transspecies but okay. I'd explain it to them anyway. They don't understand it, how's that disrespectful? How do they know how to respect something they don't understand? I'd have enough civility to attempt to explain it and  if they don't get it or they refuse to accept it I still wouldn't return that disrespect. Not everyone has to be accepting of other people and not everyone will.I come from a southern baptist family. If you think I've never been called ridiculous you're sorely mistaken. It does sound that way: "Hey I was born female and I want to be male." if I wasn't trans I'd be confused as hell. I know the family members I've explained this to are. But it's still a more common concept to understand as oppossed to not wanting to be either gender at all. If the former sounds crazy, what does the latter sound like?

I've asked this question multiple times and have never gotten an actual answer: how do you function in the real world? There's no third gender to choose on your state identification. When you go the hospital, if a cop stops you, in situations where your gender need sto be known, do you say things like xim/xir/ze/zir? How does that actually work, do people actually call you those things? My confusion is less with people who don't indentify with either gender and are androgonous and more with people who go by a new pronoun that you can't possibly expect every single person to adhere to.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 14, 2013, 05:44:41 PM
I hope everyone has pressed the report buton.

I am literally trying to understand something and you're telling people to report me?
This is exactly why I said earlier that I hate this community. I've been stealth for years and now I am reminded why I will never be anything else. My words are offending you so I need to stop typing and get reported. Do you understand how counterproductive that is? Do you understand how ignorant it is to not inform ignorant people?

Pakistsan has a third gender option on their IDs. I believe Indonesia does too. Some Native American tribes had third genders. I am sorry your cultural upbringing caused you to not be aware of these alternatives. You'd get a great answer from non-binaries if you'd be nice. Maybe you should check out Susan's wiki page. I'd attempt to explain but i am not non-binary, its hard to type on my phone, and you didn't start this thread to ask about how non-binaries feel.

Quote from: ttim0324 on November 14, 2013, 05:55:16 PM
I've asked this question multiple times and have never gotten an actual answer: how do you function in the real world? There's no third gender to choose on your state identification. When you go the hospital, if a cop stops you, in situations where your gender need sto be known, do you say things like xim/xir/ze/zir? How does that actually work, do people actually call you those things? My confusion is less with people who don't indentify with either gender and are androgonous and more with people who go by a new pronoun that you can't possibly expect every single person to adhere to.

You are asking in a part of the forums that not many non-binary folks participate in. Mainly because of people who express hostility towards them. Most of us stay in the androgyne forums, where this thread would be deleted immediately for disrespect, fyi, and we avoid threads like this.

And I did respond. Most of us don't tell anyone out in the real world that we are non-binary, or only our closest friends and family. Because we live in a world that is hostile to our very existence. Most of us deal with being called inappropriate pronouns every day, and the ONLY place we get a chance to relax and feel comfortable is in safe spaces like Susan's.

There are a few activists out there. Look up Rae Spoon, for example. They are a super talented Canadian musician who is deeply involved in the promotion of using the pronoun "they" and has actually gotten a few media outlets here to change their policies on the use of that pronoun, which is pretty damn cool.

You know, there is a long, long history of societies that have more than two genders. We didn't just suddenly emerge as a trend. We've been around for millennia. Far, far longer than medical transition has been a thing. We are as old as humanity. That you don't understand is not our failure of explanation, but your failure to do some basic research. If you are interested, look it up. These are support forums, Tim. They are not really designed for people searching for information about our existence.

Quote from: ttim0324 on November 14, 2013, 05:59:56 PM
I am literally trying to understand something and you're telling people to report me?
This is exactly why I said earlier that I hate this community. I've been stealth for years and now I am reminded why I will never be anything else. My words are offending you so I need to stop typing and get reported. Do you understand how counterproductive that is? Do you understand how ignorant it is to not inform ignorant people?

I'm stealth too, darlin'. And I also have limited involvement with trans communities. Mainly because of people like you.

Quote from: LearnedHand on November 14, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
Pakistsan has a third gender option on their IDs. I believe Indonesia does too. Some Native American tribes had third genders. I am sorry your cultural upbringing caused you to not be aware of these alternatives. You'd get a great answer from non-binaries if you'd be nice. Maybe you should check out Susan's wiki page. I'd attempt to explain but i am not non-binary, its hard to type on my phone, and you didn't start this thread to ask about how non-binaries feel.

I'm from the USA, so I'm not in the know about other countries practices. My way of talking has never been very 'warm' and it probably never will be, it's been engrained in me since I was old enough to speak, and I've apologized if I sound harsh because of this; it's not meant to come off that way but it's the way I speak and type.
I wanted to understand how non binaries live their day to day lives, after the response that this has garnered (though it was the expected one) I'm pretty sure I don't even care. Apparently if you don't walk on eggshells you're shamed.

Quote from: Sarah7 on November 14, 2013, 06:11:05 PM
You are asking in a part of the forums that not many non-binary folks participate in. Mainly because of people who express hostility towards them. Most of us stay in the androgyne forums, where this thread would be deleted immediately for disrespect, fyi, and we avoid threads like this.

And I did respond. Most of us don't tell anyone out in the real world that we are non-binary, or only our closest friends and family. Because we live in a world that is hostile to our very existence. Most of us deal with being called inappropriate pronouns every day, and the ONLY place we get a chance to relax and feel comfortable is in safe spaces like Susan's.

There are a few activists out there. Look up Rae Spoon, for example. They are a super talented Canadian musician who is deeply involved in the promotion of using the pronoun "they" and has actually gotten a few media outlets here to change their policies on the use of that pronoun, which is pretty damn cool.

You know, there is a long, long history of societies that have more than two genders. We didn't just suddenly emerge as a trend. We've been around for millennia. Far, far longer than medical transition has been a thing. We are as old as humanity. That you don't understand is not our failure of explanation, but your failure to do some basic research. If you are interested, look it up. These are support forums, Tim. They are not really designed for people searching for information about our existence.

Thank you for explaining how you go about things, but my question was moreso directed at people who identify in their day to day life with pronouns that aren't she or he. That is what confuses me. I've tried to understand in the past and I made another attempt now but this response has just solidified my opinions about the entire lgbt community. For years I identied and presented as a natal male who didnt even know what transgender was. A few months ago I decided to try and get away from my conservative down south religious roots and try to put myself out there. It's safe to say I was wrong and I'll just go back to being the way I was.
I'm sorry I ever thought integrating myself with people like me was ever an intelligent idea. Hey, at least you'll never have to deal with me again.

requesting an admin to delete this account. please and thank you.