I've been working on a screenplay for a few years now, and it's slowly been gaining focus. It's taken so long because I keep changing things around, introducing new character dynamics, storyline elements, etc. >.< But it dawned on me recently, to make my main character MtF. I've worked it in throughout the storyline and so far it's a great fit, really cements some things and give weight to other things. But my main goal in doing this isn't to solidify my existing story, but to try and create a story that puts focus on a MtF character without a hugely negative portrayal or horrible ending. There will be issues, and I'm trying my best not to make them the main focus of the storyline(s), but what I hope to accomplish is to show some of the struggles we go through, while life and other situations and plot elements go on around the character that aren't necessarily related to the character being trans. To summarize that, the trans themes will be incorporated into the main storyline, but it's not strictly a trans* film.

Some quick info about it. It's a comedy/drama dealing with teenagers. The main character is 17, passable and stealth. She started HRT at 13 (maybe not super realistic but I'm going with it), and moved to her current town at 14 while going full-time. Her friends don't know she's trans and around the middle of the screenplay she accidentally gets outed by someone that knew her as a kid. Some of her friendships are strained, and she faces a couple rather terrible things, but the ending is positive and there will be good moments for exposition regarding her transition, her childhood, and her feelings about things.

That said, I would like some feedback as to what everyone would like to see out of a portrayal of a young trans-woman in a film. What issues should be brought up? How should she handle issues she might face? What should and shouldn't be portrayed or seen?

I like the idea of keeping the audience in the dark.  If she's really stealth (HRT at 13 - lucky girl - it would be weird if she were not) we could let it be a surprise.  I trust you to not turn it into the lol-she's-really-a-man cliche joke.

I really like the idea of this being a subplot.  Just let the main character be a normal girl and the audience gets to wrestle with whether they'll agree or not.

If it's about transitioning struggles, she needs to actually have some.  Having to wait for HRT would certainly help stir the plot

Quote from: musicofthenight on November 24, 2013, 03:13:13 PM
I trust you to not turn it into the lol-she's-really-a-man cliche joke.

Ohh definitely not. I hate that stuff. No, she'll instead face very real reactions from her friends and others, like acceptance, curiosity, confusion, unconditional support, fear, misunderstanding, and even indifference. But yeah, it's not so much about transitioning, though before she gets outed I think she'll have been looking forward to SRS sometime after high school, so she probably just wanted to get through school without incident.

And to elaborate on some of the problems she'll face, a friend of hers has a big mouth. So when she finds out, she accidentally tells someone else, and it gets passed around until the main character's 'rival' finds out. He's outwardly transphobic and homophobic (inwardly more the opposite), but now attracted to her and doesn't know how to deal with that. In the third act, the main characters go to a big party that they've been looking forward to the whole time, but it becomes a rather mean-spirited 'coming out party' for her, organized by her rival. So that's the first horrible thing that happens. But it turns out alright later on, despite her rival's efforts. But he isn't about to give up, and he drags her into a room and confronts her, kisses her, and well... doesn't rape her exactly (not much violence and no penetration) because I think that'd be too dark for what I'm going for, but he'll 'pleasure her orally' which I think would be sufficient in really freaking her out and violating her. So that's the other really bad thing that happens to her. Everything else will be rather mild, like people struggling with understanding her, or misunderstandings with her friends, and assuming that her friends will abandon her. So I'm not doing something like 'Boys Don't Cry' here, but I think it'd be unrealistic if there wasn't at least some focus on her gender identity and resulting conflict.

To be honest, any movie that contains sexual assault cannot be considered a comedy. Even though it is a common threat in real life, using sexual assault against women (cis or trans) to drive any plot point is also a fairly reviled trope so I'd tread carefully.

Plus, like you say the stealth teen scenario is a bit unrealistic but beyond that it sounds a bit too much like 90% of all the cliche m2f teen trans fantasy anime/manga out there.

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative. Maybe your character could be older and the sex consensual, but then it might be a bit too much like The Crying Game if that's where you decide to reveal the trans* nature of your character. I understand your conundrum though, writing a story about a trans* person with out their status as trans* being the sole or driving point behind the narrative. Good luck!

Quote from: Ms Grace on November 24, 2013, 05:45:23 PM
To be honest, any movie that contains sexual assault cannot be considered a comedy. Even though it is a common threat in real life, using sexual assault against women (cis or trans) to drive any plot point is also a fairly reviled trope so I'd tread carefully.

Plus, like you say the stealth teen scenario is a bit unrealistic but beyond that it sounds a bit too much like 90% of all the cliche m2f teen trans fantasy anime/manga out there.

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative. Maybe your character could be older and the sex consensual, but then it might be a bit too much like The Crying Game if that's where you decide to reveal the trans* nature of your character. I understand your conundrum though, writing a story about a trans* person with out their status as trans* being the sole or driving point behind the narrative. Good luck!

I certainly appreciate the feedback, that's why I'm putting this out here. Part of the issue is I'm shoe-horning this into an existing plot. Transitioning at a young age isn't unheard of but definitely uncommon, so I think that may be an issue. But the main characters were already teenagers. I have been considering making them older, though it'd take quite a lot of re-working.

But yes, it's all a careful balance. I agree the sexual assault wouldn't fit well into a comedy, and it may not be considered a comedy anymore. It starts off lighthearted but I always had the tone go downhill until just before the end. Maybe a drama with comedic elements? I'm not solid on the assault though. It serves the plot more than the story. But when I think of the types of conflicts I could have, they seem weak and dishonest to what really might happen. As much as I don't want to tread into some really dark stuff, it kinda happens sometimes. :/ Having everything work out fine, like the problems were all just imagined, sounds nice but isn't realistic at all and I think would do more of a disservice to the community. Ugh, can I even do a realistic portrayal without the problems and conflicts? :\

Personally, I find rape-as-comedy - difficult and awful as that is - to be less tired and easier to make work than rape-as-serious-drama.  Not to say I'm a fan of either.  And for the record (TW to end of paragraph) no it does not take penetration to make a rape.

Probably my favorite queer-teen-character-populated story of the moment is Jocelyn Samara's Rain.  Notable for just how little "sex and/or homosex" (   ) happens, even off the page.


Just to throw an idea out - brainstorming style - what would it feel like to grow up TS in an extremely supportive environment, as a happy "girl-with-a-penis" and then one day ask, "So, Mom, when are my breasts going to grow?"  I think backstory moments like that might just manage to sell the early-HRT story.

Because now the story can be a little less about ooh-she's-trans and a little more about something universal: leaving the nest for a less sheltered real world.  And, with a twist like that, it's okay to use a somewhat tired plot, like "girl gets boy" a la every Disney-channel pre-teen chickflick of the past decade.

Of course, you'll want to keep looking for twists and ways to make it authentic.  It's a skeleton, build on it.


Actually, not entirely related, but I'm going to spring a bit of a trick on my mmm, on my family.  We'll just say they're awkwardly traditional.  They don't get any of this trans-ish-stuff, and me being non-binary dosen't make it any easier.  Well, I've suggested Mamoru Hosoda's Wolf Children as a Thanksgiving-day movie.  It's not actually about trans issues.  Not directly.



Hana, ore ga nani ni mieru? - Hana, what do you see me as?
And then living stealth at school, and Yuki and Ame's struggles with identity as they grow up...

Sure, not directly.

My point is allegory is a perfectly valid way to say something artistically.  And it might make it easier to get past preconceptions and prejudices that way.  Maybe not helpful for you current project, but something to keep in the back of your mind.

Sadly, as much as I want to avoid the cliches, it's kinda what I know. Even being trans, I'm not immune to the stereotypes and tropes. What I don't know is automatically filled in by what television and movies have told me. >.< So maybe my view of what might be realistic is skewed. A more lighthearted coming-of-age type thing might be nice though. I'll definitely try to experiment with taking it in different directions.

As for the rape, well.. I know it's still rape. But in my mind it wasn't as bad as it could be. I saw it like, yeah she's being violated but she quickly gets away and recovers while the guy is left on the floor humiliated, since he pretty much just outed himself now. Which is also a bit ironic considering what he did to her with the party. I don't think I could pull it off too comedically, but it didn't seem as bad as it sounds when I first thought of it.

I would avoid rape altogether. From a storytelling standpoint, rape seems like an awfully manipulative way to build sympathy for the character. Then of course there's the "rape/revenge" genre where it's used as an excuse to have a girl in her underwear cutting people up with a chainsaw. Plus, it perpetuates the idea of women as victims. I would never feel comfortable including rape in anything I write, no matter how sensitive I think I'm being. I just don't see any way it would ever be necessary in any character arc I would ever write. But that's just me.

What I'd really like to see is a movie with a protagonist who just happens to be trans. But the story isn't about her trans status. Of course it would open the door for some valuable educating moments, but it would be so cool if the character were just trans, like ho hum, who cares. I would love to see that!

Good luck with your screenplay!

Just make sure to shop it to indie studios! It could be the most amazing screenplay ever written, but if you sell it to a Hollywood studio your character will be cis before you reach the elevator.

Quote from: Jillian on November 24, 2013, 08:28:08 PM
What I'd really like to see is a movie with a protagonist who just happens to be trans. But the story isn't about her trans status. Of course it would open the door for some valuable educating moments, but it would be so cool if the character were just trans, like ho hum, who cares. I would love to see that!

I would too except that, unless she's really obviously trans, it would need to be pointed out somehow. Otherwise anybody could be trans! xD But in this situation, I kinda want a character I can relate to more closely than other portrayals in the few trans-movies there are out there. I don't want to focus so much on things that would normally drive the plot like marriages falling apart, family not accepting them, scandals, sex work, etc. What isn't usually covered is what it's like for a trans-person just living their life, trying to blend in, and get on with their life. And this would of course include some of the small things that we go through... good, bad, or indifferent.

The only reason I went with outing as a source of conflict was because some conflict can be good for both the plot, and for character development. It gives good opportunities for exposition and delving into the character's thought processes. If they're just going about their life, unless it directly impacts their being trans, we won't get those opportunities. She would simply be a character that happens to be trans and we'll know very little about how that affects her. She would simply be a character reacting to the events of the plot and following the storyline's otherwise non-trans narratives. So I think adding a little conflict, and a little focus on her trans-status could be a good thing. Right now, I'm actually going to try to restructure things to correct the flaws. I'll ditch the rape since it really is a bit too dramatic for the overall tone of the script. I'll make the characters early-to-mid 20's since there isn't much need for them to be in high school. And I'll try to go a bit less heavy on the conflicts. But I will likely still have her outed so that she can experience unexpected acceptance in addition to the other viewpoints and attitudes she'll face.

So thanks for the feedback everyone. If y'all think of anything else please don't hesitate. I'd still like more perspectives on what aspects of her trans-life should be seen and how they should be handled.

Quote from: Jillian on November 24, 2013, 08:28:08 PM
Good luck with your screenplay!

Thanks.

Yes, you're right. I was thinking in terms of accepting transpeople as just people and not making any reference to their trans status beyond the fact that it's known to the audience. But I suppose that would work best with a supporting character. Obviously the protagonist needs to have her trials and tribulations, and if a major theme of the story is that she's trans, well... yeah, you can't exactly gloss over it like that.

I didn't mean to suggest that her being outed was a bad idea. I think that's a great idea, and certainly ripe with possiblities! I hope she's a strong, proud woman. Even in her darkest times, I hope she carries herself with dignity and grace.

I don't have anything to suggest, but if something comes to mind I'll run it by you.

If she's living in stealth and seemingly nobody knows I would like to bring up the idea that it's stressful and quite isolating.

If you transitioned you've been through quite alot, if nobody from your age group knows but YOU know you have nobody to talk to and you have to redact history feign ignorance about things vs the relief of not begin judged for begin trans. It's not so bad if you barely know someone but if you get close to someone and they let you know about the rough things they've been through but your compelled to keep your mouth shut about yourself because your unsure how either they or others would react (Consider that person might be okay but other people there close to and won't be)

Which is why in my personal experience is I don't tell anyone at first then when I trust them I open up... But it's not that easy as I said. Your cool with some of them but not cool with others who've said obviously transphobic things.

The other thing that comes with stealth is the level of passiblity, You presume nobody knows and nobody treats you different but you can't ask "Do you know" but it's only rarely when someone says something to you to indicate your a natal female.
But if someone indicates they know like you appear in your story if you didn't recognise them immediately it dose jostle your self confidence.
"Oh jeeze do I look that bad? Is my voice uber mannish is my body as broad as a wall?" ect

Quote from: pebbles on November 25, 2013, 01:10:42 AM
If she's living in stealth and seemingly nobody knows I would like to bring up the idea that it's stressful and quite isolating.

I will certainly address this in the first scene or two, and I'm sure through out. The way I'm writing her so far, she's somewhat paranoid about people finding out, but she has a date set for SRS. And in her mind being post-op would make it difficult for anyone to accidentally out her. There'd be no penis to hide and she'll be able to relax around her friends. So yes, it will seem very isolating for her. As for her friends, there will be one guy (Michael) who likes her even though she's been evasive, so he'll have that to wrestle with. Another guy friend (Matt) is the neutral friend and he'll support her regardless. Her female best friend and roommate (Liz) will feel a bit shocked and betrayed, especially since they live together and Liz tells her everything. In fact, Liz has a big mouth, and that's how she accidentally outs her to others. One accidental slip to someone starts a chain-reaction. And then joining them through the circumstances of the plot is the guy that initially outs her (Jay). Our protagonist (Rayna) encounters him at a convenience store or something, and it's her reaction that makes him look twice. They knew each other when they were younger, before she transitioned. So he ends up recognizing her. He's fascinated, supportive, but likes to reminisce and bring up her past. It's not his intention to out her but it just happens and her friends find out. I'll also retain the transphobe/homophobe antagonist, and he'll still find out, out her to everyone else, and confront her directly, but I'll keep it light. Maybe he'll just kiss her, and as a result 'out' himself as he really confronts his own mixed feelings. He's not specifically attracted to her, but rather he's confused about his sexuality.

So that's what I'm working with at the moment. I think at the end, people will be supportive of her. Most will recognize that she's still the same awesome person they knew all along, and this will help her relax. However, one issue with this is I don't want to necessarily promote visibility and denounce going stealth. If someone wants to go stealth, that's fine. That's their business. So I don't want it to seem like going stealth was the cause of her problems and that being outed was a positive solution to that. :/

You asked for opinions. I have absolutely no desire to see, pay to see, ect. any GLBT films, books, literature, ect.

I lived through it. I don't have any desire whatsoever to relive something I would just assume forget about.

This actually sounds a little bit like an idea I had. It was for a manga about a high school boy who falls in love with a girl from another school, but then after dating her for several months, finds out that not only is she transsexual, but that her parents have been heavily pressuring her to detransition. I even wrote out a plot outline, supporting characters, that kind of thing. I doubt I could ever really draw a manga, given my limited artistic ability, but I still thought it was a cool idea. Maybe some day.

I think a movie about a transexual girl sounds like a great idea too though. I don't have any particular ideas or suggestions, but I was wondering if you are serious about trying to get the movie filmed once the script is completed. The world could use a movie that portrays a transgender person in a positive and realistic fashion. Typically when you see transgender people in the media, they're used as the punchlines to someone's joke. If you are serious about getting this made, you'd be doing us all a huge favor.

Quote from: Miyuki on November 25, 2013, 02:43:38 PM
I think a movie about a transexual girl sounds like a great idea too though. I don't have any particular ideas or suggestions, but I was wondering if you are serious about trying to get the movie filmed once the script is completed. The world could use a movie that portrays a transgender person in a positive and realistic fashion. Typically when you see transgender people in the media, they're used as the punchlines to someone's joke. If you are serious about getting this made, you'd be doing us all a huge favor.

That's the plan. I'm hoping one day to make a career out of screenwriting and hopefully directing, so this will be my first foray into that. I don't know yet if I'll shop it around to (independent) studios or if I'll get a kickstarter campaign going and tackle it myself. I do really want to get this going though. The concept for my film has been in 'development hell' for years now because I keep changing it. Many of these characters are close to me because they share traits with old friends. And so the protagonist was originally Jay. Then soon after I realized I wanted to transition, it became Rayna and they swapped. It worked a whole lot better, and I went through numerous revisions getting it tighter and more layered, but I still felt like Rayna didn't have quite enough depth. And I realize now that making her trans is a perfect fit. So this change does serve my story, which is why I didn't just write something new from scratch, but I also feel that making this can maybe benefit the trans community, if only for the visibility of a positive and relatable trans character.

And I like your idea too. If you really wanted to develop it you could always commission an artist.

Quote from: Katie on November 25, 2013, 08:26:26 AM
You asked for opinions. I have absolutely no desire to see, pay to see, ect. any GLBT films, books, literature, ect.

I lived through it. I don't have any desire whatsoever to relive something I would just assume forget about.

And that's perfectly fine. I really understand. Years ago, I tried watching 'Hedwig and the Angry Inch' thinking it'd be light-hearted enough, but I couldn't even get halfway through it before I started crying. I couldn't finish it, it hit close enough to home that I just couldn't handle it. But, I think now it's a bit different for me. I feel more confident, and I want to be able to see experiences I can relate to. Unfortunately, I feel like I've seen most of the trans movies out there, and most (if not all) don't portray the trans character(s) in a way I can relate to or would like to see them.

> That movie

Oh, what's that?

*checks Wikipedia*

Ewwww.  Looks like an awful exploitative PoS.  Nope.  Will not be watching, not without a very serious recommendation from someone I respect very much.

As a writer I wanted to give you one recommendation. Don't try to push your characters to any random conflict, try letting your characters grow on their own, imagine them living day by day, once they start to get real and feel autonomous, you will find soon real conflicts between then, or inside them.

Personally, I would love to see a story about a transgender character that is not a victim but a strong person. And it would be even better, if her or his trans status wasn't the center of the story.