Would you go into transition knowing there's 90% chance you wouldn't pass??

I was watching this old documentary on trans women in the prison system. There was this one middle age woman and she was discussing the fact that she'll never pass. She was tall with a bigger build for a woman and she had a VERY deep manly voice. She was homeless and was explaining her situation. She was either a oil rig worker or a truck driver before she decided to transition and made a pretty good living. But the fact that she wasn't passable in the end ended up effecting her entire life. She was in her early 50's, homeless, jobless, with a prison record. That's a pretty bad place to be going into the 50's. And if all that was heartbreaking enough she mutilated herself in prison and cut all her genitals off.

I think that everyone has the right to transition. And we all have to do what's right to make ourselves whole. But when I see stories like this I wonder was it really worth it?? Is it worth giving up all the basics needed to survive just to transition and still end up miserable?? What quality of life can a person seriously have if they don't pass not even a little bit??

I was blessed with minimal male features so when I started going out as a young woman it was pretty easy for me to pass. That was the one thing I knew I could count on that gave me that security inside and the confidence that said "Hey you could really do this". I don't think I'd be able to go outside knowing there was no way I could pass.

I asked some friends if they would've still transitioned knowing beforehand that they'd never pass in the end. All of them said no. And for myself I feel the same way. To me I think it's self defeating to go through losing family, friends, spouses, careers, homes, and possibly your entire future for something that won't work out. It's different when you risk those things going into transition knowing before hand that you've at least got a decent shot. I think it's very important to weigh the pros & cons before making such a life changing choice.

I can't speak for everyone, but I know I wouldn't. If my goal is to be seen by others as the gender that I feel that I am inside, there's no point in transitioning if I couldn't accomplish that. ...But that doesn't mean I still wouldn't do stuff like low dose HRT, or making my presentation as androgynous as possible, or getting plastic surgery done to reduce the masculinity of my features, or getting an orchiectomy. There is a lot you can do to improve your dysphoria short of fully transitioning. Thinking of transitioning as an all or nothing 100% thing is the reason why I think some people end up getting overwhelmed by the process and making a hasty decision to detransition. My attitude is, I'm just going to do the things that work in my favor, and avoid the things that don't. If I ever am able to get to the point of passing 100%, that would of course make me incredibly happy. But even if I don't, doing as much as I can to ease the dysphoria, while avoiding things that would draw unwanted attention when I go out in public, would be enough to make my life livable.

To me personally it is soooo worth it. I gave up just about everything I ever had and "Yes" I would do it again. For me the feeling of being on the right hormone is indescribable. My Dysphoria was so bad and out of control I was a bomb waiting to go off. With my training and skill set that would have been really bad, like national media bad. I had a constant ringing in my ears, high blood pressure, tachycardia, etc. I was an emotionless zombie and could not sleep more than 6 or 7 hours every 14 days. I would blow up at the first thing that went bad and was hyper vigilant all the time. NOW, I have emotions, normal vital signs, sleep well and am not ready to explode all the time. I feel right somehow. I am relaxed and actually LIVING life now, not just existing to exist. I am sooo looking forward to SRS to complete myself and be the real me. Maybe I am the exception, but yes it was so worth it. It feels really good to be honest with yourself and accept who you are without guilt. It has been very liberating for me. All the "stuff" I lost can be replaced and hopefully with time family will one day accept me once again. Would I do it if I could not pass, I don't pass real well yet, but YES I would even if I never got close to passing. I don't care about how other people feel, I care about how I feel. It's about you baby, not them. 

I get to cheat a little on this question, I did TRY to transition twice in my 20's. Both times stopping the experiment because I had that "some guy in a dress" feeling and also felt that I could never ever pass.  Time for Plan B.

Fast forward 30 years to today, I am still practically 6ft tall, a lot more bald, still big boned, deep voice, etc., and seriously considering how NOT to. Made all the harder since through the part-time living I did, I achieved my life long dream of being seen as and accepted as a woman. Yet there is a very large part of my male life that I am proud of and very much enjoy I also learned that I can do these past few years.

I struggle with the question of "Is the happiness and joy you feel worth the potential price to the other areas of your life?". Just another way of looking at "is it worth it"; in terms other than passing.

To me the answer is it was worth it in my case.I'm generally accepted even though you can tell I used to be male

If aesthetics is all it's about then I don't think you should transition at all. If it's a combination of the inside and the outside, so to speak, then passing is something you have to 'deal' with in my opinion. Before anything, consider if what you have to lose is far greater than what you have to gain.

I think we live in an age where we have been seeing a greater blend between the gender aesthetic thru all age groups. For example, I went to a supermarket today, and I saw tall, fat, skinny, short, manly handed, large headed, masculine, feminine, androgynous, almost x-rated, clearly shouln't be showing that much flesh for their age/weight/both, wide shouldered, toothless, tatooed, short haired, long haired, badly made up, no makeup,....... type women everywhere. What gave them away as women was everything else that wasn't their appearance, like voice and manerisms etc which has been discussed ad nausea. In fact, one of my partners friends is very masculine looking and sounding (due to cigarettes) for a woman yet she's been married twice and has 2 kids. Her mannerisms and dress sense is very feminine yet she'd make a good looking guy.

Maybe our 'standards' are different in the UK than elsewhere which is why I'm not emmigrating just yet 

Also, if transitioning makes you a happier and better person regardless of whether you think you pass, then do it. Especially if it stops you going nuts and ending it all.

I always said I'd go full time when people started gendering me as female when I was showing the world that I was male. Thank God that happened, because IDK if I would've continued living if it didn't.

It's not about aesthetics, it's about people treating you as something other than a man, or a freak, or as some honorary girl that everybody uses the right pronouns on because they consider your feelings, but in their minds they're like "OK I know that's really a guy so expect *her* to be a man most of the time". It's about being treated as what YOU see fit as respectful towards YOU. At least that's what it's about for me.

No for me either.

Transitioning for me means to be perceived from others as female. Otherwise I would remain male, maybe
a bit more effeminate, but male. I would accept also not "passing" answers, but I would not call them
"transitions", but maybe "alleviation" from GD (which is still good)

Quote from: Janae on December 03, 2013, 03:52:51 AM
Would you go into transition knowing there's 90% chance you wouldn't pass??

I know many women who don't pass who are very happy with their transitions.

I DID transition assuming I would never pass.

I was wrong. I pass nearly everywhere. But I might have been happier if I didn't. Now I never know if someone is reading me as trans and I worry about every little detail of my presentation.

This is a question I myself have been wrestling with due to my age, body shape, family, and my vocations. I am not sure how much I want to become externally into the woman I am. Maybe if I had started earlier in life things would be different, but alas I did not. So I will keep talking to my therapist and try to come to a solution as to let Kelli live with minimal destruction to myself and those around me.

I think what I'm seeing in these responses is that being transgender differs from person to person. Early on, after having revealed my desire to my now-ex-wife, I had to deal with her questions of why I couldn't just identify as female and remain male. For me, the experience of living fully as a woman was part of what I had been wanting since I was a child. Passing was paramount for the experience, and had I not passed, I would have gone to whatever lengths I could afford to have done so. I would have even taken on those I can't afford, as much as possible. There is an aesthetic component to my identity as a woman, but aesthetics are not superficial (many cis-women would agree).

Neither are aesthetics everything. I would feel awful if another transwoman thought that my deep-seated emotional need to pass means her experience is somehow less valid or legitimate. Not to trivialize, but my being a professor does not mean that people who are not are worth less. Identity doesn't work that way.

All I can say is YES!!! I started this never expecting to pass ,at all, and still don't all the time. But I deal with it.  To me I have to be my self . I'm still not full time do to the fact that I am not out at work but me & my therapist are working on my plan for that now. All other aspects of my life are as myself. I can say for the first time in my life I am truly happy even though I have lost friends and family members who refuse to accept me for me. Hey, that's their problem. You have to be you...period.

I think I would either try or end it. If I was sure I would suffer greatly, probably the latter, if I saw a chance, I would at least try it. That is actually how I felt. I was lying there on my bed thinking that I have now two choices - to be under the soil within months or try one last thing and transition - if anything, getting my body to be right and the name I needed to have on my stone would be a better thing. Sorry if that sounds negative but it was what I felt then. I think I would not have let it come to a point where there would have been a 90% chance to never pass. The amount of dysphoria would have reached a limit way before such a point. I considered what it would be like to have SRS and HT and maybe BA if needed and still live androgynous or even in a male role. I think even that would have been thinkable but I doubt it would have gotten me far. But my focus was mostly on my body, less on the social role, but if I changed my body as much as I could and not manage to also be perceived in society appropriately but ridiculed or hated or hurt a lot, I might have eventually died before I could finish transition from the hurt this causes. This is a pretty sad topic, sorry to sound so negative.

This is a great topic!

I'm 36 now and the reason why I waited this long is because I had very male features, and I never thought I'd even come close to passing.  Thus I just sucked it up as a guy for all these years, thinking that I could never be a girl, until one day I decided to see a gender therapist.  I wanted to at least vent and understand my issues better. I went to timidly at first dressing as a guy, then gradually feminizing my look in little bits and pieces.  First heels and the rest of the outfit being men's clothes.  It looked really stupid, so I added women's slacks.  Then one day, tops, earrings, and then I tried makeup, all while growing out my hair.  Along the way my therapist gave me unwavering support and over time I felt that maybe I had a chance to pass after all.  So now I'm taking a shot at it because I have more confidence that I might be able to pass as female.

But if I didn't think I had a chance to pass, I would probably never go through with it because of all the cruelty and discrimination in the world.

That is why, in the sticky "Do I pass?" threads, I am usually extremely supportive and optimistic.  Based on my own experience, I believe that so many people have a chance to pass if they have people who believe in them, and can help them to find the confidence to believe in themselves. 

I don't  know ,It depends how bad your dysphoria is. If you had the flesh eating bacteria in all your limbs, would you have them all cut off to save your life.

Hm. If I knew I wouldn't pass, but still looked "okay", yes. My family is very accepting and I live in New England, so even if things didn't work out in passing, I wouldn't lose everything.

But it begs the question, if I don't transition, is a life where I'm suicidal every week worth living? Where I have to force escapism just to continue living? I don't think it is. The biggest thing about transitioning for me is how I feel. Waking up and feeling that I am in at least some semblance of the body I want is the most important aspect to me.

Quote from: Mogu on December 03, 2013, 10:15:01 AM
Hm. If I knew I wouldn't pass, but still looked "okay", yes.

This brings up the point that "passing" and "beauty" don't always go hand and hand. I know some trans women who that I consider very beautiful.

No, my main goal is to look like female on the outside otherwise no point. I would not accept to be ugly female either.

It's totally YMMV.  You trade one set of problems for another.  Which set of problems is less burdensome?

I had to go full time to better know how doable a full transition was going to go for me.   HRT and laser definitely made me feel less like the "shaven ape in a dress" that I was a year ago and boosted my confidence, without which I was sure to fail.

My dysphoria is all about the body I live in.  I need to be physically female to the extent possible.

I can continue to play the role of a male, but I desperately need to have a female body.   I don't mind being a bald, plain looking woman.  When I get out of the bath and look in the mirror, I need to see a woman.

I feel like I'm cross-dressing when I wear men's clothes, but I don't mind that.

Randi