Quote from: Gina_Z on December 06, 2013, 01:48:55 PMMaybe she's afraid of what society will think about the two of you as a couple.

Specifically her family, I think.

Quote from: particle on December 05, 2013, 08:07:27 PM
One thing she asked me and I could not answer,  why I can't just add whatever behaviors to my maleness.

Hi Particle,

This wasn't her first position was it?  Did she start off being totally against any femininity?  Did she then accept a little more?  Now she's taking one last stand against total transition with this question?   I'm just curious because I'm at the 2nd stage now and I'm wondering if I'm headed for your question.

As for the question, I'm wondering what she meant by "behaviors".   

This is exactly her original position.

Quote from: particle on December 06, 2013, 12:46:56 PM
One of the weirdest things is that I can't separate masculine strength from violence in my head.

This is a really deep problem, and if you can come up with a solution, I'd like to hear.  In the meantime, perhaps Orwell's essay Shooting an Elephant might ask some of the right questions.

Quote from: particle on December 06, 2013, 02:42:45 PM
This is exactly her original position.

I would say it means she hasn't fully explored what her feelings are... maybe I can try to explain.

So, first up everyone has some maleness no matter how feminine.  So "adding whatever behaviors to your maleness" is not an entirely inaccurate view of transition - or at least the building-up half.  But the other side of it would be "letting go of whatever maleness was just a facade."  I wonder if she fears that she will end up being one of the old scabs you cast off - or if the things she appreciates most in you were just a lie.

I do not think you can avoid that issue forever.

As you make changes, you both will come to a clearer idea of what your feelings are.  I think you should do your best to understand and share hers, so she doesn't feel left behind.  You don't know what the problems will be yet, so it's foolish to assume.

Why? Because who I am isn't a man. If your significant other can't come to terms with that, I'm not sure what to say.

Looking at it from her perspective, she probably feels like she's losing her husband. She probably feels like she has no control in any of this, and that whatever she's feeling gets drowned out in all the noise and confusion because this is about you, and she can't understand what you're feeling.

It's probably terrifying to her that you would literally transform before her eyes. She might feel like she's watching her husband disappear and some woman emerge to take "his" place. Like the female you would be the imposter. Because she's only ever known the male you, or so she believes.

I don't mean to put words in her mouth. But I'd bet her resistance is more motivated by fear of losing you than by what other people would think. The thing is, telling her "I'll be the same person" is little consolation, and I can understand why loved ones don't buy it.

The best you can do (imo) is be very patient with her and let her express her hurt. And don't forgot to tell her once in a while how much it means to you that she's stuck with you through all this. Whatever tomorrow brings, let her know you feel lucky to have her here with you right now. Be there for her as much as you want her to be there for you. I guess what I'm saying is, don't let her feel abandoned in your transition.

Just my 2c.

I hope it all works out for you two.

The worst part is this identity I'm feeling boiling up, and wanting to express is the person she married, so much more than the one she deals with today.  AT some point, a shame switch went off, and I pushed away feminity, and it took away a lot of my emotions with it.

Wife saw what site I was on.  Issue is now smoldering.

Did you get to mention the SO's section? Maybe she would like to check out PFLAG just to get an idea of what life can be like.

Quote from: particle on December 06, 2013, 10:15:35 PM
wanting to express is the person she married

I don't usually use caps lock, because it reads like shouting, but

TELL HER THIS YOU BIG DOPE!!

Why can't you be yourself and Remain a man?

A real simple question with a real simple answer based on a real simple assumption, that you know who or what yourself is! After a lifetime of not ever discovering/developing/growing into and as yourself how is it possible?

For me the first step was admitting, I mean really admitting to myself, that I am more than a CD and needed to figure out where on the TG spectrum I currently reside. Admitting, seeking outside help, support, was the easy part. The last three or more years I've been working on the who.

The growth process has been difficult. Plenty of tears. Plenty of Joy. When it seems to getting easier another challenge comes along. Always moving me towards Better. Always moving me more towards learning who I am, the totality of me. Not the image I created and lived up to for decades. Not the image I kept locked away in the deepest darkest dungeon of my soul. I am not either of those aspects.

What I will grow into after they are mixed I am still discovering as I continue to stir the pot. Wearing trousers most days, a skirt on others. The flavor, the taste, forever altered. Like the contents of that pot I no longer "Remain" the same. Nor do I ever want to be that person I was again. My greatest fear in life is reverting back to that person.

BTW - My wife also does not want to see that other person again. She agrees that the 2.0 version is far better. More like the 0.4 version she first tried. The 2.1 is a bit better. Getting used to the new "Look and Feel" of the user interface is a bit of a challenge. The added features make it worthwhile.

The more I'm going over and over this in my mind the more I realize that I maybe overlooking a lot of what I like about being male.  I think I'm falling victim to the "Black and White" thinking that is central to my depression. 

A request to take the an assertive role a bit more in intimate situations, gets interpreted as "I hate the female side of you.", and "Be a Man"

I feel rejected, my libido drops, I get resentful.  "Being a man" turns into a self-denying passive aggressive whole life temper tantrum.

My screwed up gender role assumptions start picking off all my fun activities, and my innate dislike of traditional "guy stuff" makes it harder for me to take up the slack, so I slowly turn into a robot.

Now, my depression starts abating, I drop my fear of femininity, and discover my true self in the feminine box, the black and white issue rears its head and "hey, thinking of myself as female is fighting the depression" becomes "I am not complete without at least some HRT", which then becomes a depression trigger

I'm gonna take a hard step back from the idea of HRT and Transition.  I'm gonna switch to a therapist with some gender experience, maybe try a support group.  I probably just have to do more stuff I like and do some more active dressing up, once privacy returns.

particle-

My thoughts are with you as you explore this unfamiliar path. We tend to go back and forth and side to side and weave and wobble as me make the journey, and sometimes we run out of gas or encounter dangerous things, or we find that we have taken a wrong turn or have gone in circles. Still, it sounds like you are taking a reasonable, thoughtful, careful approach as you travel the path, and you are being thoughtful about the safety and well being of your passengers. There is no road guide or atlas or GPS for us, we have to find our own way, often alone.

I know that as you make your way you will hit bumps and ruts, but I hope things work out well for you.

~Eva

I think therapy and dressing up can help you. I found that I liked dressing up around the house because I enjoyed feeling even more feminine than I did without dressing up. At first maybe you can become comfortable with a middle ground, androgynous state of mind where you determine who you are and how feminine you actually are. Get away from the extremes, the black and white view of gender. A goal of accepting yourself as you are.

I had the same question asked of me.


Why I can not add just a little and present the old exterior? Well, I am growing my identity and as my identity grows there is less and less room for lies and less and less room for the false exterior. I want to be me, inside and out. Taste a little freedom, acceptance an welcoming and tell me that does not feel soooo good. How can a starving person just have one potato chip?

Speed and depth of a transition is up to your comfort and need. However, if felt warranted, external changes are an expression of how you feel you need to be. For me I am changing slowly.  I would express it as removing (slowly) the male trappings and expressing my feminine self. I am not adding to the male. I am removing from the female.

I can't relate to that. Why can't you allow yourself to slowly transition? Like start by plucking your eyebrows, reading women's magazines, watching TV shows that are designed more for women, start wearing feminine underwear. You're in-tune with some of these things right? I just don't get the all or nothing philosophy. I don't think there's that much pressure from the outside to conform to an ultra masculine persona. I think the amount of lying is up to us. We don't need to go to an extreme change in a few hours. That kind of urgency just doesn't sound healthy to me. Hey, I could be wrong. 

Quote from: particle on December 07, 2013, 10:35:02 AM
I'm gonna switch to a therapist with some gender experience, maybe try a support group.

That is probably the best thing you can do for yourself right now.

A smart decision.

QuoteWhy can't you be yourself and Remain a man?

Because, after looking at who I am on the inside, how I know myself, and all my experiences, past relationships, social interactions, desires, emotions, and passions...

...I've never been a man in the first place.

I'm a female human being that had her body walk off in the wrong direction for some annoying reason.
It reached the point where I decided to fight back.

Quote from: Andrea_LS on December 08, 2013, 07:22:40 AM
Because, after looking at who I am on the inside, how I know myself, and all my experiences, past relationships, social interactions, desires, emotions, and passions...

...I've never been a man in the first place.

I'm a female human being that had her body walk off in the wrong direction for some annoying reason.
It reached the point where I decided to fight back.

I don't know about you, but I reached the point where I had no choice but to fight back...

Sorry, I just hate that word "decision" with this stuff... I get the whole "your decision" BS a lot. Yes... there is some choice involved but the alternatives, slow self destruction and automatonous living, were not palatable. Calling the decision to transition sure makes being transgender sound like a choice ~ at least when coming from cis.

I doubt my wife realizes how much talking to other transgender folks tends to affirm my basically having more like both a male and female identity, or some kind of blended gender than just a female one.

I just have been supressing the feminine too much for a long time.