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Transitioning is merely a choice

Started by melissa90299, July 18, 2007, 02:45:20 AM

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taru

Quote from: Fer on July 23, 2007, 05:26:18 PM
I never thought of transition as a choice.  Anyone that chooses to transition is mental.  I transitioned because I had no alternative.

Thus people with a different definition of choice than you should not be allowed to transition as they are mental? (since mental cases + transition is not ok by SOC).

btw do you think all the people who have said in this thread that they think of it as a choice are mental?


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Nero

Quote from: Mawd on July 23, 2007, 05:39:29 PM
Quote from: Nero on July 23, 2007, 03:41:18 PM
Quote from: Mawd on July 23, 2007, 01:29:49 PM
On a more serious note (even though I meant that) The thing is that I'm not really invested in this forum or any of you and tbh I have no reason to be, I have better things to do, if you can't deal with that then ignore me and get on with your life, getting in a tizzle over it is rather infantile and hints at underlying jealousy.
I don't know. Conversation is conversation, debate is debate, and I don't think just because someone has a 'tizzle' with you indicates jealously.

I came to the conclusion due to a process of elimination, I don't ever remember pissing regina off and she goes off at me quite randomly for no real reason, usually i have to personally insult someone to provoke them into taking such an attitude.

Ah The hazards of being an opinionated person. You never know who or how many you've pissed off. Sure beats holding your tongue though. :P

Posted on: July 24, 2007, 12:30:48 PM
Quote from: taru on July 24, 2007, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: Fer on July 23, 2007, 05:26:18 PM
I never thought of transition as a choice.  Anyone that chooses to transition is mental.  I transitioned because I had no alternative.

Thus people with a different definition of choice than you should not be allowed to transition as they are mental? (since mental cases + transition is not ok by SOC).

btw do you think all the people who have said in this thread that they think of it as a choice are mental?



I don't think that's what Fer was implying. I think she was saying that no one in their right mind would volunteer for this.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Rachael

isnt opinion EXACTLY the subject though regina?
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Jeannette

It's always something.  The wife, the children, the mortgage, the car, the dogs, money, this, that.  Absurd illenesses that are invented to justify why transition isnt doable.  But oh surprise, some of these same peeps claim to be stealth & fulltime.  > noddes twice<  ::)
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Rachael

age is a key factor:
i have no morgage, car, kids, spouse, dog/hampster...
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Yvonne

Quote from: Lisbeth on July 24, 2007, 09:40:28 AM
Yes, of course transitioning is a choice.  For me it was a very simple two-way choice.  I could choose to transition, or I could choose to die.

Same with me.  Transition or die? 
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Kate

Quote from: morticia on July 24, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
Wow!  That's pretty awesome because that's exactly how I feel right now.  The outer wall of lies that I hide behind is crumbling fast.  It's like that commercial where the man and woman are walking along inspecting a dam and spot a leak.  The guy takes his chewing gum and sticks it over the leak, they look at each other and nod in approval of the repair and carry on.
As they walk away all happy with themselves the gum blows off and the leak becomes much worse.

LOL, yep...

I once said that, "NOT transitioning is like trying to hold your breath... for 42 years," lol...

Sooner or later...

~Kate~
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Rachael

i had no choice personally, i had no life, no friends, no self worth. i didnt have a life till i transitioned.

Posted on: July 25, 2007, 10:28:07 AM
Quote from: Tink on July 18, 2007, 07:36:01 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 18, 2007, 07:26:17 PM
Quote from: Sandi on July 18, 2007, 02:27:51 PM
QuoteI don't understand why people don't get that the absolute need to transition is what defines us.

Probably because it isn't an "absolute need" for everyone. Nor is everyone with GID that doesn't have surgery, unhappy with their "choice" to not transition.

We (or I anyway) get that it is an absolute need for you. I also get it, that for the transsexual person I mentioned earlier from Milwaukee, did not have an "absolute need" to transition. That was her choice.  ;)


IMNSHO and by definition, without the overwhelming need to transition that afflicts transsexuals, the person is not transsexual.

Seconded!

tink :icon_chick:


a'men....

if it doesnt hurt like crazy, if it doesnt stop your life from onset of the feelings whenever that is, till you do something the hell about it, you my friend, are lucky, you arnt transexual, you just deeply want to be to escape some part of your life.
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asiangurliee

Quote from: Rachael on July 25, 2007, 10:33:35 AM
i had no choice personally, i had no life, no friends, no self worth. i didnt have a life till i transitioned.

Posted on: July 25, 2007, 10:28:07 AM
Quote from: Tink on July 18, 2007, 07:36:01 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 18, 2007, 07:26:17 PM
Quote from: Sandi on July 18, 2007, 02:27:51 PM
QuoteI don't understand why people don't get that the absolute need to transition is what defines us.

Probably because it isn't an "absolute need" for everyone. Nor is everyone with GID that doesn't have surgery, unhappy with their "choice" to not transition.

We (or I anyway) get that it is an absolute need for you. I also get it, that for the transsexual person I mentioned earlier from Milwaukee, did not have an "absolute need" to transition. That was her choice.  ;)


IMNSHO and by definition, without the overwhelming need to transition that afflicts transsexuals, the person is not transsexual.

Seconded!

tink :icon_chick:


a'men....

if it doesnt hurt like crazy, if it doesnt stop your life from onset of the feelings whenever that is, till you do something the hell about it, you my friend, are lucky, you arnt transexual, you just deeply want to be to escape some part of your life.


Your view is simplistic. A person can have G.I.D without being a transsexual.

Those who have gender identity problem but does not have a clear choice on what they can do to alleviate their problems are not the lucky one.

If your only solution is to transition or die, than you are lucky because it is a simple choice to make.

It could be much harder  to carry on and struggle with one's self identity with no clear way out.
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Rachael

easily actually.
a dysphoria, or dissconection with something, can be multifaceted. it can be serious, or not, i belive your view that gid = ts is the simplistic one...


belive me, nobody here is more lucky than the other.
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Rachael

* Rachael shrugs

on my worst enemy? i might ;)


R :police:
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asiangurliee

Quote from: Rachael on July 25, 2007, 10:33:35 AM
i had no choice personally, i had no life, no friends, no self worth. i didnt have a life till i transitioned.

Posted on: July 25, 2007, 10:28:07 AM
Quote from: Tink on July 18, 2007, 07:36:01 PM
Quote from: melissa90299 on July 18, 2007, 07:26:17 PM
Quote from: Sandi on July 18, 2007, 02:27:51 PM
QuoteI don't understand why people don't get that the absolute need to transition is what defines us.

Probably because it isn't an "absolute need" for everyone. Nor is everyone with GID that doesn't have surgery, unhappy with their "choice" to not transition.

We (or I anyway) get that it is an absolute need for you. I also get it, that for the transsexual person I mentioned earlier from Milwaukee, did not have an "absolute need" to transition. That was her choice.  ;)


IMNSHO and by definition, without the overwhelming need to transition that afflicts transsexuals, the person is not transsexual.

Seconded!

tink :icon_chick:


you just deeply want to be to escape some part of your life.

Or they have G.I.D.
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Rachael

next time, dont quote half my post, which makes a TOTALLY different statement alone...
R :police:
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NatalieC

Quote from: Yvonne on July 25, 2007, 03:17:07 AM
Quote from: Lisbeth on July 24, 2007, 09:40:28 AM
Yes, of course transitioning is a choice.  For me it was a very simple two-way choice.  I could choose to transition, or I could choose to die.

Same with me.  Transition or die? 
That sounds very absolute and complete! Transition or die! As if. Thats a terrible way to think. There are always other options. Its stupid how people get caught up in something and think death is the only way out. Believe me if you can avoid death you should but to die because you cant transition is ridiculous and defeats the purpose of having life in the first place. Life is where we figure all this stuff out and make the most of it even if we are not happy. Death is where you get no second chances and experience nothing. I would rather something than nothing even if it was just pain. Like the Bhuddists say "All life is Dhuka!". Meaning all life is suffering. There are just different levels of suffering the further away from pleasure you are.
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Jeannette

Quote from: Jeannette on July 24, 2007, 05:34:09 PM
It's always something.  The wife, the children, the mortgage, the car, the dogs, money, this, that.  Absurd illenesses that are invented to justify why transition isnt doable.  But oh surprise, some of these same peeps claim to be stealth & fulltime.  > noddes twice<  ::)

Non-transsexual peeps will make endless excuses to avoid transition.  In my view, this is what is stupid.
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asiangurliee

Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 06:17:41 PM
next time, dont quote half my post, which makes a TOTALLY different statement alone...
R :police:

avoiding i seee...  :o
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Lisbeth

Quote from: Natalie Carole on July 26, 2007, 08:08:44 PM
Quote from: Yvonne on July 25, 2007, 03:17:07 AM
Quote from: Lisbeth on July 24, 2007, 09:40:28 AM
Yes, of course transitioning is a choice.  For me it was a very simple two-way choice.  I could choose to transition, or I could choose to die.

Same with me.  Transition or die? 
That sounds very absolute and complete! Transition or die! As if. Thats a terrible way to think. There are always other options. Its stupid how people get caught up in something and think death is the only way out. Believe me if you can avoid death you should but to die because you cant transition is ridiculous and defeats the purpose of having life in the first place. Life is where we figure all this stuff out and make the most of it even if we are not happy. Death is where you get no second chances and experience nothing. I would rather something than nothing even if it was just pain. Like the Bhuddists say "All life is Dhuka!". Meaning all life is suffering. There are just different levels of suffering the further away from pleasure you are.
Gee, I don't know.  "Death is where you get no second chances and experience nothing."  That doesn't sound that bad compared to a living hell.  Like both C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien said, "There are things that are worse than dying."  It's interesting that you quote the Bhuddists since they pursue Nervana which is complete nothingness.  But then, it might be that you and I are looking at life from opposite ends of the road.  Perhaps some day you will change your mind.
"Anyone who attempts to play the 'real transsexual' card should be summarily dismissed, as they are merely engaging in name calling rather than serious debate."
--Julia Serano

http://juliaserano.blogspot.com/2011/09/transsexual-versus-transgender.html
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Kate

Quote from: Natalie Carole on July 26, 2007, 08:08:44 PM
Transition or die! As if. Thats a terrible way to think. There are always other options. Its stupid how people get caught up in something and think death is the only way out...

I've said all these things once myself, many years ago when I was terrified of what I knew was coming for me. I posted some pretty nasty rants on other forums, calling Transition or Death! people cowards, wasting a precious life because of something so silly as gender. "There's more to life than changing your sex!" etc.... you know the idea.

A few years later, I transitioned. I didn't hate my male life, as so many TSs say. It wasn't unbearable that I was a male, it was unbearable that I wasn't a female. My life had run it's course, it was empty, void... there just wasn't anywhere else to hide. I shattered the delusions I was hiding in, and there was just no place left to go.

It's a bit like exposing Satna Claus, or a religion you were raised in and always just believed because everyone Said So. Once you do that, it's over. You can't go back. Once you SEE your life, in it's entirety, there's just nothing else TO do except transition.

At least that's how I felt...

~Kate~
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Hypatia

#159
I feel exactly that way about it, Kate, you said it so well. You said it perfectly. Except that I hate my alleged maleness, hate it with a burning passion, as much as I love my femaleness. I know this is kind of unbalanced, and I have reason to anticipate that once my womanhood is more firmly established in the eyes of society through transition, I will be on a firmer basis for seeking balance in my emotions about gender. It's being treated as male by others--with all the assumptions about what that gender identification supposedly means, such as separating me from the womanhood I share with other women--that gives me the heebie jeebies. I was weak before, it took me this long to become strong enough to say No to everyone trying to impose maleness on me. Like "the Japan that can say No," I've finally developed into the trans woman that can say No.

I cannot see levels of GID and transsexualism as fixed or absolute categories. This stuff can evolve over time. Even when I dropped the denial of my GID (as Kate described above, once you've opened your eyes to the reality, it is not possible to go back to deluding yourself about it), I did not want to admit I was (gasp) transsexual and on my way to SRS. But once I began consciously walking this path, it soon became clear that transsexual is exactly what I am.

It's in the nature of GID to get stronger over time, until it's really unbearable. I had to drop denial of my GID in the first place because it had kept getting stronger for years and would not leave me alone. Once I let it out of the closet, it rapidly grew in intensity and now I'm saying exactly as Morticia said above, this is it, there's no going back, I would rather be dead than male. It's unbearable now, but I am doing something about it, which gives me the hope to go on living. Estrogen is my lifeline, I would no sooner give up estrogen than I would give up oxygen (the element, not the TV network). I like Oxygen too, but I can live without TV, I can't live without my womanhood.

That's just me. I do not presume to define how others are allowed to identify themselves. I do not belittle others for the difficult choices they felt they had to make. Each person's journey is unique and individual.
Here's what I find about compromise--
don't do it if it hurts inside,
'cause either way you're screwed,
eventually you'll find
you may as well feel good;
you may as well have some pride

--Indigo Girls
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