Ok, so basically, this is a bit personal, but im sure others have been through similar. Before i transitioned, my body was fairly male looking, while that hurt, individual parts didnt scream 'ugh' at me. since ive transitioned, and my body is fairly female now. to the extent where showering has now become painful, as is just any time naked. i hate seeing my genetals. its scary, and foreign now. it doenst belong, and it looks like a jokeshop toy someone glued onto me while i was passed out or something for a laugh. and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
R

Don't worry about it, your not bonkers.



Sarah L.

I can relate to everything you are saying as I have been experiencing a similar feeling for the last few months when I am in the bath.  Its like I look down and there is a part of me that is just so out of place, I have lost count of the number of times I have gotten out of the bath in tears recently. So you aint bokers at all hon !!

Becky
xx

I used to experience the same thing, and as you say, the ironic part of it all is that the more feminized your body becomes, the greater your disgust is towards *that thing*  It's a psychological torment which seems to worsen everytime you are faced with the realization that *it* DOESN'T belong there.  You just feel that *it* looks totally wrong in a woman's body.  I know.  I understand more than what you think, and you're definitely not bonkers, hon!  You have to be strong (even stronger than what you are now) and find ways to do the normal things people do without acknowledging that *it* is there.





tink

Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Ok, so basically, this is a bit personal, but im sure others have been through similar. Before i transitioned, my body was fairly male looking, while that hurt, individual parts didnt scream 'ugh' at me. since ive transitioned, and my body is fairly female now. to the extent where showering has now become painful, as is just any time naked. i hate seeing my genetals. its scary, and foreign now. it doenst belong, and it looks like a jokeshop toy someone glued onto me while i was passed out or something for a laugh. and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
R

It's not just you.

It got worse in transition.

The longer I went living full time as a woman, the harder it became to match the feelings, emotions with the body I had.

I just wanted it to end, to become whole.

Buffy

I don't think you're bonkers.  Reading your post I realize I feel pretty much the same way about my breasts--don't like looking at them, can't stand to have them unbound and visible, etc.  They make me acutely uncomfortable.  I'm less worried about the genitals, but come to think of it, I just pretty much ignore them these days, don't even look at them. 

As for the bonkers part, no. I thought I was alone in this world until I realized there's good people like yourselves. I wanted to "chop my bits off", but I found out they hold a great future. Corny, I know. But, I have to think positive.

Rachael
You are not bonkers. I have felt this way for a very long time now. You have to develope a very fivid imagination that it is something else down there. I like Gina's idea. It is doner material. That is an excelent way to look at it.
You are not alone

Deb

Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?

Quote from: Kate on July 27, 2007, 09:02:59 AM

Quote from: asiangurliee on July 27, 2007, 01:38:27 AM

QuoteAfter being on hormones, I am becoming more disturbed about the sight of my penis.

Same here. I figure:

1) As my body morphs into a female shape, the penis is more and more incongruent
2) As my sexuality begins to seem more and more hopeful of expression, I'd like the correct genitals for it

~Kate~

thanks guys. this has been bugging me for a while now. Its infuriateing, and i know its going to finally make me happy, but i cant think of it as a 'little fellow' its a growth that can be cosmetically altered. Im starting to feel dirty, and disgusting, i feel like a faker even more. im a 'chick with a d*ck.' and that im invading, its upsetting to think people could see me as some dirty faker... and its scary. Its a dirty little secret. and its a constant knife in my ribs. Your right, its alien, but i cant cut it off, as i know i need it to be happy, (how ironic).

well, actually, it is that part of me, without it, id be very happy, even if it was a blank space left. id be content at large, because id not need to touch the damn thing, clothes would fit me right. i could live without sex. and be happy, the object itself makes me feel a faker, every part of me, besides it, is female, and i know this. my crotch defys my happyness. and it will for many years.
your lucky, getting surgery so soon. ill maybe get it inside a decade if im lucky....

Let me see now. I can't count how many times I have come close to cutting the thing off. Then I come to my senses and realise there are people out there that could do a much better job Than I.

Deb

yeah, i realise i have to let someone else do it. but it hasnt stopped me dreaming of doing it. i can safely say i hate this thing, in its current form, its not part of me. physically attached or not. DO NOT WANT.

R

I never really thought of chopping it off, way to squeemish for that, I'd faint at the first sight of blood. Its when I have to tuck that "thing" and the .... sweating during the summer that I want to squash it like a bug, I just hate bugs  .

I know I'm at least 1.5 years away from getting it rearranged so, hey, tolerated it, is DA word till then, no point crying over shrivelled nuts (sorry for the graphic images HAHA).

Quote from: Rachael on July 26, 2007, 04:22:28 PM
Ok, so basically, this is a bit personal, but im sure others have been through similar. Before i transitioned, my body was fairly male looking, while that hurt, individual parts didnt scream 'ugh' at me. since ive transitioned, and my body is fairly female now. to the extent where showering has now become painful, as is just any time naked. i hate seeing my genetals. its scary, and foreign now. it doenst belong, and it looks like a jokeshop toy someone glued onto me while i was passed out or something for a laugh. and it almost feels that while my dysphoria is lessened with regards to my now having a largely female body. its worse with regards to that area... any one else felt this way? or im i just bonkers?
R

I feel that way now. Except for those bumps on my chest, the rest of my body can pass for male. And I don't have any issue at all with my genitals.
My tits are gorgeous, but do look out of place. Now don't mistake me for those delusional, IS obsessed people who go on about having a female skull, female knee caps, female arms, etc
But there's really nothing to be dysphoric about on my body except my tits and menses (which are very irregular and the bleeding only lasts about a day and a half when it does come, so it's really not that big a deal).
I'm well made, can build muscle easily if I have the notion, no hips, no female fat patterns, etc
I'm not bothered at all by not being hairy, and I've known guys with little to no hair on their bodies who weren't pressed about it either.
I have a really high libido, so the only body dysphoria are those full round things attached to me.

Is it really that hard to see why I'm not pressed about HRT?

To me, HRT is just a passing aid, as it will make my face less femmy and deepen my voice.
So I'm really pretty much in the same position. My tits are the only thing that bothers me. I don't like seeing them in the shower.

Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
I wanna hear the emotional basis to it, not some theory, please.

Sick of my theories are ya?

Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM
If I were ftm, at the very least, I'd want a metoidioplasty (say it fast, 5 times).

And sew up this sweet silken flesh? Place artificial nuts in? I'd be mad.

Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM

Quote from: Nero on July 27, 2007, 06:07:37 PM
And I don't have any issue at all with my genitals.

Not being judgmental, but why? Practical issues aside (money, medical complexity), why don't you have an issue with your genitals? If I were ftm, at the very least, I'd want a metoidioplasty (say it fast, 5 times). I'd want to walk around a men's locker room and not be having to conceal my vagina, or to go in a hot tub or be nekkid and be totally cool about what people see. I'm not saying your choice isn't the healthier one, but I just don't believe I could do that. I wanna hear the emotional basis to it, not some theory, please.

Several reasons:

1. The only bodily dysphoria I've ever had centered on my tits and having menses. I've just never cared that I had a [meow] instead of a penis.
The only reason I'd want a penis: I never would've been labeled female.
The only time I've ever noticed the absence of a penis is sometimes in the heat of the moment when I get the urge to throw someone against the pool table or something and ravish them and remember I can't. That would be nice.
Other than that, I don't care.

2.  Sex is part of my life. Pleasure is part of my life. Sensation is part of my life. I'd be mad to want all that delicious rose tinted silk sewn up. I like it. I need it. It's vital. Worth far more than walking naked around a locker room.
And why would I limit myself to clitoral pleasure when I can have the other also? Wouldn't that be kind of stupid?

3. Being in a hot tub or walking around naked - I wouldn't really do that with people I'm not close to. And I'm really doubting I could be close to someone and not have them know my history. I can't stand for people not to know me.


I've had people question my transness because of this. That's not my problem. They feel how they do about their genitals and I feel how I do about mine. Nowhere in the SOC does it list genital loathing as a requirement.
Why would I loathe something that gives me pleasure?

Emotional enough for ya doll?

Quote from: regina on July 27, 2007, 06:27:42 PM

Quote from: Nero on July 27, 2007, 06:07:37 PM
And I don't have any issue at all with my genitals.

Not being judgmental, but why?

What happened to that sentiment? I can't believe I was foolish enough to think you asked out of genuine curiousity.
I told you the same as I would tell a friend. Next time I'll remember that any personal questions are traps and intended to attack and discredit me.

Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AM

QuoteThat's not my problem. They feel how they do about their genitals and I feel how I do about mine.

No, it's not a problem at all, but I can see why you feel the endless need to defend yourself (and to attack a lot of other ftms).

When have I ever needed to defend myself? I have opinions. I state them. There's no law against that.
Furthermore, I never turn any discussion into a personal attack against a person.

Do you honestly think if I doubted myself, if I doubted my manhood, or my status as trans, I would post how I felt about my genitals on a public forum?
Seriously, do you?  It would be much easier to lie and claim to have severe penis envy, loathe my parts, and claim to whine all day long about it.

And since when have I attacked any other ftms? If I'm remembering correctly, all my debates (not attacks) were with transwomen. I don't recall ever debating any subject with an ftm. Not on this board. On ftm exclusive boards, yes.

Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AM
And I can understand why some people, who have, perhaps, a more intense form of body dyphoria, would be upset that you turn around and say they aren't really men. I'm not saying who's right or wrong, rather than I can understand why they're upset with you.

Who's upset with me? Even when debating issues with other ftms, I've never had another ftm get 'upset' with me.
I never told another ftm he wasn't really a man. Ever. Nor implied it. I've been attacked elsewhere by ftms because of my bisexuality. Threatened even. Had one post my profile and location on the board for everyone to see and I got many threats of harm to my person. To me that is disgusting and homophobic.

If you're talking about my questioning whether some 'trans' people are in reality the gender they claim to be, yes I do question that. I believe there are ftms who may not in fact be male, and mtfs who may not in fact be female but want to be for whatever reason.
Sorry, but I just don't believe that every single person who transitions is truly their target gender. And I'm not the only person who shares this belief.  

More intense form of body dysphoria? More intense form of body dysphoria?
I'm not going to go into what happened to me during puberty, but I really can't see how a more intense body dysphoria is possible. You're not in my body, you can't possibly know what I've went through and go through regarding it. So don't even go there. Don't dare patronize me.

Since when is genital loathing the measure of dysphoria? Isn't it enough that I have tits like some nightmare out of Playboy? That women constantly lament about being jealous of them and insist they can't be real?
If they were flat or ugly or something, I'd never have to hear about them.

As far as the rest, I'm sorry, I just wasn't given an overly female body. If I was small, had an hourglass figure, and fat on my hips, booty and thighs, I probably wouldn't be able to stand myself.
As far as height, my grandfather and uncles etc were my height. With the exception of my father, I grew up around short men my height. So, excuse me if I'm not distressed enough about that to wear elevator shoes like some transmen do.
As far as body hair - I've known guys with little to no body hair who couldn't care less and I've known guys who actually wished they were less hairy.
Not every man wants to be a huge, hairy, hulking brute, ya know.

Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AMThe reality of life is, if you're choosing to not do something (eg. being nude) because there would be repercussions from it as a non-op, that is affecting your life and, in some way, limiting experiences you can have as a male and not as an out transgender male.

Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 01:55:42 AM

Quote3. Being in a hot tub or walking around naked - I wouldn't really do that with people I'm not close to. And I'm really doubting I could be close to someone and not have them know my history. I can't stand for people not to know me.

Do you really feel like everyone you would go in a hot tub with has to know you're trans? That might be too much input. Again, just speaking for myself, I save that information for my lover and, perhaps, some other people I wish to be emotionally intimate with. So if you're in a locker room, you're going to wear a little towel around your waist all the time. Very prim. And what if you were arrested or in need of emergency medical attention (it happens)? For me, reading about Tyra Hunter had a big impact on how long I could even tolerate being non-op just from a purely practical sense. To me, living socially as a women includes a lot more than sex and friends. It extends to a very extensive range of situations in which people would encounter me as female. (obviously, not being able to give birth, have a period and certain other things means I can't share in all of those situations) but I'm going as far as I can go and then I'll stop.

What became of your living in the ftm mecca of the world? I seriously doubt you know very many ftms. If you did, you would know that the majority do not get bottom surgery. Few get it. Most do not see it as worth it at this time.

In case you weren't aware, even an ftm who had bottom surgery could not pass muster in these situations.
It's the very very rare phalloplasty that even looks decent (and those still wouldn't hold up to scrutiny), most look like a frankenstein experiment.
Metaiodoplasty is nothing more than the guy's enlarged clitoris (from HRT) shaped a bit and a fake sac put in.
This doesn't pass muster. There would still be scrutiny and questions. Even the smallest dicks are not that small.
At the most he'd pass as a male with a severely abnormal organ or an intersexed male. So no, everyone wouldn't just 'be cool' with what they see. Transmen who opt for genital surgery are really in about the same boat as those who don't.

I'm glad that transwomen have better surgical options and the opportunity to live fully and completely as women.
But you don't have to rub it in our faces that we don't have the same options for stealth as you do.
I'll bet you just ruined some transguy's day and made him feel hopeless about ever having a full life as a man, with all your goings on about how great and normal your life will be after surgery.

I've had enough of this for now. I'll address the remainder of your manifesto later.

Quote from: regina on July 28, 2007, 11:31:57 AM
Oh Nero, it's not a trap and it wasn't meant to hurt you. If I did, then I'm sorry, really sorry. All I'm doing is expressing genuine confusion over the different parts of you, that's all. But if I made you feel lousy, then that was wrong. I don't understand it when you talk about the intensity of being 'primary' and on the other hand, being 'okay' with certain aspects of your body? Can you understand how people, even though who don't mean you harm, can have that confusion. That doesn't mean I want to deny your manhood or your story or who you know yourself to be.

Believe me, I get the inevitability of the limitations of surgery, but I'm trying to speak emotionally now, not practically. Don't you think I wish there were some surgery that could make me shorter or make my shoulders narrower or my hips wider? Don't you think I wish I could give birth? Don't you think I wish there were a magic pill that could make my voice perfect without spending hundreds of hours practicing and still feeling unhappy about the results? Those are all things I've thought about all my life, and I'm never going to get them... but that doesn't make me want them less, it doesn't.

And it definitely wasn't intended as a manifesto, but sometimes I'm an idiot. What can I say?

still care about you,
Gina M.

You came off like an evil harpy descending from the sky to devour me. I could hear the room echoing with your wicked laughter.
Excuse me, I'll never call you doll again. Don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I have poor social skills with girls.
I call just about every girl 'doll' or 'sweet lady' or such because that's what a favorite relative of mine always called females. I didn't know it was offensive, never had anyone complain. Well, he was born in a different time and place, I guess.

As far as the rest of your post, I would've given anything to look like, to be my father. He's 6'0, strong, handsome, gorgeous bright sapphire eyes, deep rich voice, full beard, etc  And knowing that was not to be hurt very much.  When I was 16, I saw his senior class picture. It was my own face staring back at me. I was looking at myself, at the young man I should've been. I felt cheated and wept for days.
I don't remember consciously doing it, but somehow I quit hurting over what would never be, and decided it wasn't so bad that I was short like my grandfather, that I had a build like him, that though he was not handsome, he was lovely in his way.

About the genitals, it just was never about the genitals for me. It was about being a girl when I was a boy. Not about having a penis or a p ussy.

I am 'primary' unless you want to count my bisexuality as proof I'm not. Which I think is disgusting and homophobic.
When I was 14, I had my first intimacy with a boy (not intercourse). (Girls were totally out of the question, as no girl would even talk with me let alone date me. Not to mention I was terrified of them.)
It was great. Why should I feel ashamed of what I was born with?

Why can't you see the beauty in a displaced man allowing the pleasure from the parts he was given to soothe his wounded soul? Why do you mock that?

i think your a bit ott here gina.
Nero feels hes male, so many topics have decided on here,t hat a man is a man, and woman a woman regardless of thier genetal area. If he feels he can live with that part of himself, good for him. afterall, its his transition, not yours, and his being primary is his age of transition and realisation or whatever the damn fireball of a topic decided. The point is, dysphoria is multi leveled. and if hes happy, surely thats all that sodding matters?

R