So, as I am trying very hard to figure out why I have repeated and increasing feeling that I want my body to look and feel more feminine (and what the hell to do about it), I have a question.

I don't act like a girl.  (According to my wife.  Grain of salt, she has a vested interested in me being male.)

My communication style is kinda hyper-male, I'll grant.  I'm kinda mildly autistic/aspbergery (undiagnosed), and I've learned one way to interact.

Should I be taking this as a sign that I am in no way suffering from GID?

particle,

I was close to being exactly like your description.  I shut down my emotions.  I did hyper masculine things.  I was an alpha male.   But all I was doing was over compensating.  Your desire does not mean you are transgender and your actions don't mean you're not.  This is a process of discovery.  I don't know where it will lead.  I'll post more later but I'm at work and short on time.

Hugs,

Jen

The way certain genders act in certain respects is social conditioning (colors, for example). You don't have to want to play house or paint your nails to be a woman. Just ask yourself: Do you feel like a woman in your mind? Do you want a female body?

I would be surprised if you walked like a woman without trying. certain things develop automatically based upon body structure.

There are masculine women. That includes masculine transwomen.

She is just looking at stereotypes and social conditioning, liko another person already said.  Don't worry about that hoo much, especially since you have pointed out that you only know one way of communicating.

My dad said the same thing about me, and he was clearly wrong

Crap.  So if let's say I play a mental game of I'm a tomboyish lesbian piloting a robot man suit.
I them have two anxiety and depression free days until I can't maintain focus on the idea.

This is a great sign that I am just deluded and do not need to get therapy to confirm i have GID, right?

Hi particle,

In answer to you question. Absolutely NOT.

In response to your statement " (and what the hell to do about it)"

Find a therapist who fully understands gender identity issues and have a chat. It may be a by product of the autism/Aspergers

Huggs
Catherine .

Quote from: Anna++ on December 11, 2013, 09:19:32 AM
She is just looking at stereotypes and social conditioning, liko another person already said.  Don't worry about that hoo much, especially since you have pointed out that you only know one way of communicating.

My dad said the same thing about me, and he was clearly wrong

My mom is the same way. She always goes after the stereotypes. She feels that a woman has to be skinny and tall. I had a TG friend several years ago who was in transition and she was skinny and tall, and my mom felt that she'd be a better woman than I would. I stand 5,9 and have broad shoulders, where as my friend was 6' and was skinny. But right now there's no sense in trying to change her mind. 

Quote from: particle on December 11, 2013, 09:34:35 AM
Crap.  So if let's say I play a mental game of I'm a tomboyish lesbian piloting a robot man suit.
I them have two anxiety and depression free days until I can't maintain focus on the idea.

This is a great sign that I am just deluded and do not need to get therapy to confirm i have GID, right?

Nope not really in fact if anything I'd say the exact reverse... It sounds to me very much as if you may have GID, but then again what do I really know about it? I'm not an expert.

Even if I was I can't look inside your head. It's basically only you that can figure where you feel you belong, and anyone who tries to judge you by external signs and criteria is an idiot! Of course you won't necessarily behave like a girl if you weren't brought up as one...

Those of us who were brought up as girls (even those like me who weren't entire biologically female at the time) would probably have similar difficulties if we tried to act male.

So until it becomes clear to you I think keeping all the options on the table and doing a bit of cautious therapy led exploration is the only sensible way to proceed. One thing to bear in mind - you clearly need a therapist who has experience with gender but will keep an open mind...

I think a key to this is - how does this behaviour feel for you? Do you feel it is not real, is it burdening you or do you identify with it as a "tomboy lesbian". Also what do you mean by masculine behaviour - there are sterotypical things that are just nonsense (e.g. girls dont play with computers) and there are things that are making more sense like men being more hierarchical.
A way to go in this is, but be careful, this may be a no-way-back point, let go of the maleness. What I mean by that (and I described it before in a misunderstandable way as "deleting the male") if you sense that there is a falseness about the whole construct of maleness, you can try and tell yourself to let go of it. The problem is that much of it is interwoven - with the parts of your life that are connected to being that person. So it takes a leap of faith and the openness to really in a way start a new life to really let go of this. If that works and this male behaviourset is in a way a facade, tearing it down will liberate yourself with a different set of behaviours that are natural to you. For me that meant that I suddenly moved, talked and acted in a different way naturally without having to learn anything. It was liberating. But thats not the case for all. Some have not done this dissociation and have rather build their "male self" with their real personality. In that case parts of the real self are interwoven with this behaviour and in that case what I described may not be a good metaphor.

aspie and GID... we're talking about this very thing somewhere else on the site.  Someone really needs to do that study.  I'd jump on it myself if I had unfettered access to the med and psych journals.

Particle, hang in there  

-hugs!-

There have been studies on this and it seems that a lot of people who are transitioning have aspergers-like symptoms. Partly it seems to be because of secondary reasons, e.g. lack of proper social interaction due to exclusion from the peer group, but many are having regular aspergers. I read numbers that in Germany up to 70% of the people doing a MtF transition are affected in some way. No numbers exist sadly to show if the rate of regret or happiness are higher or lower for this group. I guess some problems may exist as people with aspergers would probably have a harder time integrating into a female social structure? I dont know, but there is a bunch of information already out there.

Yeah, I wish I could get a hold of some of those studies!  They would be very interesting to read, for sure.

We were discussing how the two were related and how they affect each other.  If you've got access to any of those studies, drop me a PM please!

Quote from: particle on December 11, 2013, 08:37:06 AM
Should I be taking this as a sign that I am in no way suffering from GID

Noone here can tell you if you have or don't have GID. You have to see a doctor.

As a "guy" right now, you may have a mental block is preventing you from admitting these feelings to a doctor. You really have to get past that.

At first I had trouble going to doctors using words like "transgendered", and admitting "I am a girl"  when I look like a male.  I know you are confused now, and it is easier to try and work out your problems online, then go into the unknown world of trans-therapists and talk about stuff that you have learned is bad to talk about, however, the doctors can prescribe your hormones, and if you have GID then hormones might be what is wrong.

GID to me means, I developed a fake personality,  lost my mind, and convinced myself I was a guy. I could stare in the mirror, and sense something was wrong, but could not figure it out. I had the persistent thoughts of wanting to be a girl, but I could not tie those thoughts to what was going on. So there was no way I could talk myself through GID.

Only much later, after hormonal correction, did I understand that those thoughts were my original personality that wanted to express itself.

That is why I say you need to see a doctor because if you have GID, then you might be under the delusion of a fake male personality. GID is a horrific condition with multiple layers of horror. I hope you do not have GID.

Just like Willow said, there are women who act masculinly. Society unfortunately sets standards on what to expect from men and women unfortunately, but of course you are in no way obligated to abide by someone elses standards.I've known a few ladies that display kind of an authoritative persona. There are many types of women, if you feel you want to be a woman, just be one of your own flavor

I am too kinda in your boat.

I've always been looked at as an "alpha"

That's due to my size... Thankfully I'm short, but built like a tank.... So unfortunately my transition is going to be a hard one....
I pray HRT will lessen my build....

But even though I'm seen as an alpha, my body language and posture most times are very fem...

It's also like the little things like killing spiders(ummmmmm..... Ewe...), to crying at the lion king and I learned early, stay away from extreme home makeover....

For decades, I played the cards I was dealt....
But I realize sometimes the deck must be shuffled......

I might miss being an alpha at times....

But being happy in my own skin truly supersedes any stereotype....


Jess

I'm not an alpha.  I've never associated this with being trans, but one of my coping strategies has been to identify true alpha males, and copy their idioms, vocal patterns and gestures

I'm totally trans, but I never acted like a girl.

Most of my trans friends never did either.

When you're socialized male, most people find it hard to change.  Many don't want to.  That has resulted in some awkward social interactions for me where I've honestly not known what to say to people.  Example:

Me:  I really need to lose weight.  And I really need to get back into the habit of exercising like I used to.  I've gained so much and it really upsets me.
Middle aged transwoman:  You don't want to do that!  Your boobs will shrink!
Me: (stares into space with no idea what to say until someone changes the subject).

Yes, women talk about boobs.  But it's different.  And one of the omnipresent pressures on women is to be smaller and thinner.  There seemed to be a total lack of understanding of that in the interaction.  The social understanding and the common experience of certain pressures definitely seemed to be missing.  But a very male boob fixation seemed very present.  One sees simikar things among transmen too.

But I think the key here is that all identities deserve respect.  When I see "middle aged transwoman," I still talk to her.  I still call her "she."  I still correct people who misgender her.  And I don't try to change her. 

It doesn't matter if her behavior is a little "off" or seems to reflect not understanding certain things about women's lives or seems too focused on the ways men are often taught to see the world.  What matters is that figuring out her identity is up to her.  My job is just to respect it.  Gender conformity not required. 

It seems to me that a lot of cispeople miss this reality that trans* people may act differently in the social interaction because of having been socialized and taught to handle things differently.  They then turn around and say "oh, you can't possibly be a woman because you act like a guy."  The fallacy is that the cis person is expecting the trans* person to conform to social expectations that the cis person was taught from birth and that the trans* person never learned and may have been punished for conforming to.  That's just unfair.  And it misses the reality that the fact someone was socialized one way is not an excuse for failing to respect an identity that differs from the socialization.

Now trans* people who criticize one another for being too much like a cisgender person of their target gender are a mirror image if this.  That happens too. . . .

Quote from: Mogu on December 11, 2013, 08:58:24 AM
The way certain genders act in certain respects is social conditioning (colors, for example). You don't have to want to play house or paint your nails to be a woman. Just ask yourself: Do you feel like a woman in your mind? Do you want a female body?

I would be surprised if you walked like a woman without trying. certain things develop automatically based upon body structure.

That thing about being able to walk like a woman without trying, that's something I've been able to do my whole life. Sometimes it just happens when I'm walking down the road and I don't even command it. I then notice my buttocks starting to tighten up, as if my male side is intentionally trying to hide my feminine pace. As I walk quite fast for the most part, all of this can happen at anytime, slow or fast.

Chris