I have to agree. If we don't blend in it seems to cause more of a issue. As this guy once told me," if you looked like a man in a dress I would probably have made fun of you or worse." It sucks but for those who don't blend in its like lets avoid them. And as far as the woman being just as bad remark it is so true. Depending on the person they really can be, and some people are just nice enough not to make fun of you in front of your face.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on December 13, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
When I was hospitalized, they gave me a bracelet that had an F on it. When I told the people in the ER that I'm trans, they didn't change it. Well, actually they did, but they didn't change it to M. When I got to the ICU, they were asking me why I was on such a high dose of Spiro, and I told them that I'm trans. Well these girls just were so sweet, but their attitude changed completely. It went from let me help you to let me ask you a bunch of questions about your gender ID. After that, they replaced my bracelet w/ an M. I can almost tell you for a fact that that very sweet nurse went to change it because she's not so understanding ... behind my back.

That reminds me of something that happened to me when I had my tonsils out. I went out of town to do it because I don't trust the idiots at my local hospital. As it turned out, I went to the same hospital where I had my orchi done exactly one year before. It was scheduled during the same time of day too...talk about freaky.

I was sitting in the room waiting on the nurse and this woman walks in. She looked liked she was in her 60s. She asked me the usual questions and then asked me when I had my last period. I just laughed and said "Well, I'm trans so that doesn't apply to me." Hell, I didn't care. I just wanted to get my tonsils out and go back home. She gave me a blank look and left the room. I just laughed to myself and thought "whatever." She sends back this other nurse that looked like she was in her 20's. As it turned out, she had a trans-sister. I just thought it was weird but funny at the same time. I told her that too. I wasn't really offended. I just wanted to take care of what I was there for and that was all. I guess the older nurse felt that the other nurse could "deal with it better". Whatever.

P.S.: The tonsil removal recovery SUCKED. Getting the twins cut away was much easier to recover from.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on December 13, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
Okay, I don't know why people think women are more accepting. Let me tell you about a jarring experience.

I've been working at my place of employment for nearly 5 months now. Now, I'm still stealth. I assume some people know (like the office manager, HR manager, and maybe the doctors that work there), but I know for a fact that at least some of them do not. Case in point:

Recently I was hospitalized. While I was in the hospital, a coworker of mine and her daughter were visiting me. We were in my room talking, acting cheerful, etc... when my not passable at all roommate walked in with food. Immediately, the daughter of my coworker shut her mouth and didn't talk the rest of the time. My coworker and I continued to converse, which she didn't seem bothered by anything at all. My roommate said very little.

The day after my next day of work, my coworker called me on the phone. First thing out of her mouth "Okay, WHY didn't you warn me about that roommate of yours? I had to explain that to my daughter!" "I was blushing, so I just kind of apologized and said I wasn't expecting "him" to come (I didn't want to get into the whole transsexual blah blah). She went on to say "I mean the first thing out of her mouth was 'Why did that man have boobs?'.." She went on to make fun of her situation for a good 30 minutes, and honestly I felt the need to go along with it to cover my stealth identity.

The kinds of stuff that were discussed were pretty transphobic to say the least. This all went on behind her back. Now there's a running joke that I have a crossdressing male roommate with huge boobs and when it's brought up in the office, everybody gets a kick out of it (btw I work in an office of about 95% women).

I have had similar experiences and during those times I feel bad that I don't speak up and defend or more so tell them its not right to judge others. Its a whole new world when your stealth though!

I know for a fact if someone was doing more than just talking or was damaging someone's reputation or affecting them personally...I would say something.....the times it has happened they were just talking about drag queens or men that wanted to be women type talk....I don't encourage it or add to the conversation, I just will nod or chuckle a little.

I will be honest, one of the reasons I don't say anything on either side is because I don't feel like I am trans...I feel like any other women does!

and yes women can be even worse...because its done behind your back....If that was a man in the room he may have said to your roommate "whoa, man are you a dude! Still isn't right...but at least the white elephant in the room is noticed!

Honestly??

A good amount of them think were freaks. I can't count how many times I've seen females cry that were not real woman because we can't get prego, or have periods, etc. No matter how beautiful, educated, intelligent, caring, loving, people we are they still think were men pretending to be what they really are. And that were only out to trick men and have sex with them. Men for the most part feel the same way. They will argue you down till their last breaths no matter how much you try to educate them. They feel like they hold the deed and monopoly on what's male or female.

Never mind the fact that sex, sexual orientation, gender, gender ID, etc are uniquely different they always reduce us to gay men who want to be woman to have sex with men. Most cisgender people can't understand that not everything is simply black or white. I've seen it on countless trans related posts all over the net. It's sad because it seems MTF's get the brunt of this type or opposition. No one ever considers FTM's or even acknowledge they exist mostly, or that MTF's can be lesbian with NO interest in men, or that sexuality has nothing to do with being trans in the grand scheme of things.

I think if transsexualisum and transgenderisum were more widely accepted as a legit medical condition similar to more obvious birth defects people would be more understanding. Insurance companies need to cover trans related surgeries and stop listing them as cosmetic. Job discrimination needs to be trans covered across the board, etc.

I think it needs to be driven home that we aren't doing this for fun. This is VERY real and it effects kids and adults and it's more common that people think.

People will make fun of anyone with a condition that is not what they deem "normal". I am disabled and walk about as well as a fish. Prior to starting RLE I would hear people muttering as they walk past about various things relating to my disability such as 'Mummy, that person walks funny..yes darling they are what is known as a cripple..' Followed by the obese father, balancing a bag of corn chips on his stomach, behind saying 'bet they get some great support from the government and a free parking space..' Sometimes, I just can not believe how blatant people are when criticising the misfortunes of others. I have heard people make all sorts of comments. You just learn not to hear them with time.

The funny thing is though, since I started RLE a year ago and have been out and about to the same public spaces I have not heard one derogatory comment about my disability or my obvious transness. Bizarre.

Truth is we make people uncomfortable. There is no point bitching about it here on Susan's either, because the majority of the universe can not hear us. If you want it to go away, you have to make those first steps into the world.

Quote from: Janae on December 14, 2013, 03:39:46 AM
Honestly??
A good amount of them think were freaks. I can't count how many times I've seen females cry that were not real woman because we can't get prego, or have periods, etc. No matter how beautiful, educated, intelligent, caring, loving, people we are they still think were men pretending to be what they really are.

I honestly can't fault them for part of that. I do want to be what they really are. It's their reaction that is all wrong. Rather than help people who need it, they choose to discriminate. It's the "Ewww! Transsexual!" reaction that keeps us from having our procedures covered by our OWN healthcare or making advances in medicine to where we could reproduce. I've always felt lacking because I can't reproduce as my gender and I probably will until science can make this happen. Hopefully most of you can deal with it better than me.

Since this question is about how most cis men and women feel about transwomen I guess I'll give an answer.

Religious views aside, I don't see any harm from them. To each their own I guess.

As far as I am concerned if a person feels male or female that's how they feel. I really couldn't care less how they walk or talk or sit or stand or dress. It's their body. It's their mind.

If I know FTM's they wished to be addressed as male that's how I do it. Likewise with the girls.

Just because I disagree on some things because of spiritual views doesn't mean that I will dishonor them.

Hope this answer from a cisgender male helps.

Just remember, it doesn't matter how everyone views us.  As long as they treat us with respect and don't discriminate against us, there views are not important.  Sure, there are people that do discriminate against us (and that's an issue that should be addressed nor be belittled), but I'm referring to those who don't agree with our lifestyle yet don't stand in the way.  For those people, it's really not important.  Most people have guessed I'm trans without me disclosing and they tend to be nice and friendly.  It's possible they talk behind my back and see me as the cute silly gay guy who wants to be a girl (I expect it), but all I care about is whether they stand in my way to live my life.  If not, who cares what they think.  As long as I'm treated with the same respect that others deserve, then there opinions are not relevant. And the lgbt community is pretty accepted here in NY, so I doubt there are too many open hostilities.  At the end of the day, you can't force people to accept you or understand who you are, but you can create a social and legal atmosphere where tolerance is practice.  To be honest, it's hard to understand if you've never been through it.  And for this reason, I can't even relate to many of the experiences of some in the transgender community, but I respect them for who they are and tolerate them for their differences.

Again, there is a lot of discrimination for us to fight against, but for those who just don't understand or condone our lifestyle, it's really not important.  Those that do stand in our way to live and restrict our rights and freedoms are a whole different story.  And I know there are many of those that exist.

Quote from: nikkit72 on December 14, 2013, 04:38:03 AM
People will make fun of anyone with a condition that is not what they deem "normal". I am disabled and walk about as well as a fish. Prior to starting RLE I would hear people muttering as they walk past about various things relating to my disability such as 'Mummy, that person walks funny..yes darling they are what is known as a cripple..' Followed by the obese father, balancing a bag of corn chips on his stomach, behind saying 'bet they get some great support from the government and a free parking space..' Sometimes, I just can not believe how blatant people are when criticising the misfortunes of others. I have heard people make all sorts of comments. You just learn not to hear them with time.

Wow...that is screwed up. But it doesn't surprise me. I have one family member that was in a really bad auto accident several years ago and she has problems with walking now due to this. She's told me that people have made screwed up remarks to her. It doesn't surprise me because I know how much the majority of people suck and will dog you for any reason, so I can only imagine what they say to her. I've never heard it in my presence, though, BUT if I ever do, that individual will end up wishing they had kept their mouth shut. Just the mere thought of it happening sets my blood to hyper-boiling. But if I actually witnessed this then all bets are off.

this isn't a lifestyle or a choice for me. Maybe I'm different since I have some intersex disorder which is why Mazzoni won't let me have injectable estrogen. (i have had b cup boobs since age 15 and puberty did nothing. My T level is 182 without HRT. 182!!!!) People have always told me I should get a sex change or just straight up treat me as a girl. So it's either go all the way or be stuck in between. I tried that and tried T, and this is the only thing that has worked.

so I someone saying they don't condone this is basically forcing me into the open closet of unhappiness. Eff that.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on December 14, 2013, 11:01:17 AM
this isn't a lifestyle or a choice for me. Maybe I'm different since I have some intersex disorder which is why Mazzoni won't let me have injectable estrogen. (i have had b cup boobs since age 15 and puberty did nothing. My T level is 182 without HRT. 182!!!!) People have always told me I should get a sex change or just straight up treat me as a girl. So it's either go all the way or be stuck in between. I tried that and tried T, and this is the only thing that has worked.

so I someone saying they don't condone this is basically forcing me into the open closet of unhappiness. Eff that.

It wasn't a choice or a lifestyle decision for me either.  However, I can't expect everyone to agree with my transition or see it as natural.  Not everyone will.  As long as they don't stand in my way and respect me for who I am that's all I care about.  If they treat me as female and don't make any problems for me, that's all I can ask for.  Yes, I want everyone to view me as female and to accept it, but I don't think we can force others to think what we want.  What I will say is that everyone who does know about me treats me like one of the girls.  I appreciate that and don't want to second guess what may be in the back of their heads.  Otherwise, I will lead a very paranoid or sad life.  In any event, I'm going stealth as soon as I can, so it won't always been an issue for me. 

Yeah there will always be haters no matter if your trans or whatever. I just enjoy life and my friends, family and fiancé. Life is what you make it

Quote from: Gene24 on December 14, 2013, 05:03:17 AM
I honestly can't fault them for part of that. I do want to be what they really are. It's their reaction that is all wrong. Rather than help people who need it, they choose to discriminate. It's the "Ewww! Transsexual!" reaction that keeps us from having our procedures covered by our OWN healthcare or making advances in medicine to where we could reproduce. I've always felt lacking because I can't reproduce as my gender and I probably will until science can make this happen. Hopefully most of you can deal with it better than me.

I know exactly how you feel. For the most part I've accepted my trans reality it is what it is. But I do wonder how much easier life would've been growing up if I were born female. I also long to have children. It get's so bad at times I get emotional and cry when I see really adorable kids on tv. Then I have to pull myself together. When I go to Walmart with my mom every month I get excited when we go to the baby section to pick out stuff for my nephews. It's become a real sore spot for me ever since I started my transition. The really sad thing is that females & men take their cis-status and "normalcy" for granted. We have to work, fight and claw for our womanhood. In a way I think it makes us better because it wasn't just given to us. It's sad that people can't see past what they grew up knowing. It doesn't take much to educate yourself or our condition.

Majority? They view us as a man no matter how hard we're gonna try.

I do not know how much notice people will take of this post, and it is not meant to be negative or offensive towards anyone  in any way, but it seems that topics such as this serve up a lot of negativity compared to other topics here on Susan's. I know it is difficult etc, but it looks like people are looking for an excuse not to step through the door, and those that already have are not helping those that have not by posting about all their negative experiences that relate to being trans. Anybody for a quick shot of anxiety before making that initial step? ANYONE seen to be different from what society perceives as "normal" will be thought about, spoken about, confronted sometimes an in rare circumstances physically abused. This is not the privilege of the trans community alone. Life is too short, and when you have 2 of them to live, either side by side or one after the other, stop giving a s**t what others think.

Sooner or later people will start viewing trans people as those that sit in a closet all day complaining about things if we all do nothing about it.

Quote from: Evolving Beauty on December 15, 2013, 03:43:46 AM
Majority? They view us as a man no matter how hard we're gonna try.

Not my experience at all. The complete opposite of my experiences..

Quote from: nikkit72 on December 15, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
I do not know how much notice people will take of this post, and it is not meant to be negative or offensive towards anyone  in any way, but it seems that topics such as this serve up a lot of negativity compared to other topics here on Susan's. I know it is difficult etc, but it looks like people are looking for an excuse not to step through the door, and those that already have are not helping those that have not by posting about all their negative experiences that relate to being trans. Anybody for a quick shot of anxiety before making that initial step? ANYONE seen to be different from what society perceives as "normal" will be thought about, spoken about, confronted sometimes an in rare circumstances physically abused. This is not the privilege of the trans community alone. Life is too short, and when you have 2 of them to live, either side by side or one after the other, stop giving a s**t what others think.

Sooner or later people will start viewing trans people as those that sit in a closet all day complaining about things if we all do nothing about it.

I don't bother much with posting the positives here any more.. Being called a liar gets to be a drain I don't need.

The fact is, I live my life as a woman.. I do normal things. I don't make my being trans an issue, it's so far down my list of priorities. But I've long been working on the 'Take me or leave me' theory. I am who I am.

Quote from: nikkit72 on December 15, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
I do not know how much notice people will take of this post, and it is not meant to be negative or offensive towards anyone  in any way, but it seems that topics such as this serve up a lot of negativity compared to other topics here on Susan's. I know it is difficult etc, but it looks like people are looking for an excuse not to step through the door, and those that already have are not helping those that have not by posting about all their negative experiences that relate to being trans. Anybody for a quick shot of anxiety before making that initial step? ANYONE seen to be different from what society perceives as "normal" will be thought about, spoken about, confronted sometimes an in rare circumstances physically abused. This is not the privilege of the trans community alone. Life is too short, and when you have 2 of them to live, either side by side or one after the other, stop giving a s**t what others think.

Sooner or later people will start viewing trans people as those that sit in a closet all day complaining about things if we all do nothing about it.

I understand what you are saying, but I think it's important to share both the positive and negative.  Look, we will all struggle and have hardships.  Sharing those issues will help others get a realistic view of what we go through.  If someone needs to make the initial step, they should prepare themselves for what can happen.  Transitioning is a tough road and people should realize that.  I feel that sharing the ups and downs is more helpful in the long run. Speaking as someone with paralyzing fear, I appreciate people sharing their hardships and difficulties.  It's helped me in many ways, and it's also comforting to know others have been in the same place only to overcome it. 

For what it's worth, all the progress that I've made has shocked me.  I never thought I could accomplish the things that I have and it's amazing that the path has been as smooth as it's bee so far.  Most of the people I have met have been understanding and supportive.  And it's been pretty damn easy except the expense issue and family drama.  Though, I have much more progress to make and many fears that prevent me from going forward at a faster pace.  The only thing that gives me solace is that I've realized that most of my fears were overblown and no where close to reality (with the exception of my mother's reaction).  Yes, there will be downs to come and people that will stand in my way, but this is what's right for me.  If I follow my heart, the ups will outweigh the downs in time.  And the more time progresses, the more and more I pass which is great!  The positives, for me, beat all the negatives so far. 

Probably depends on how you go about it.

I'd bet money if you wore one of those stereotypical one piece-ends at the knee dresses with a big wig (That seems to be the default transsexual mode of dress in television), you'd be seen as a pervert.

I'd bet pervert with a lot of people, actually. That or just a weird person.

Quote from: Mogu on December 15, 2013, 10:12:38 AM
Probably depends on how you go about it.

I'd bet money if you wore one of those stereotypical one piece-ends at the knee dresses with a big wig (That seems to be the default transsexual mode of dress in television), you'd be seen as a pervert.

I'd bet pervert with a lot of people, actually. That or just a weird person.

Yeah, I notice that there are some transgirls with questionable fashion.  Just my opinion. 

As a new trans woman this subject is very, very interesting to me. I am always watching how people react to me.

I don't have near the amount of presenting female as some of you do, but I have noticed some things that keep happening.

One of those things is guys staring at me. This has happened several times now. I don't know what they are seeing.

The other thing that has been happening is that women have been opening up to me and have been chatting me up even when I've been presenting in boy mode. I get the female smile from other women now too.

I can do without the men staring but the women being friendly thing is nice and it can stay.